Buying Land as an investment

[Matello7777]

Hi all,
I'm new to looking at buying land, not necessarily to build on but just as something to maybe pass onto my kids.
There's a plot of woodland up for auction near where I live.
It's 2 acres, no planning permission which doesn't bother me as it's not to build on for me.
A public footpath and bridleway border the woodland
I would consider using it as a source of fire wood for any fallen trees to save of fuel bills for my log burner at home.
Are there any potential pitfalls I should be wary of or questions I need to ask about buying a private woodland?
Any legal responsibilities etc?
Thanks
Mark

[Mike4]

Hi all,
I'm new to looking at buying land, not necessarily to build on but just as something to maybe pass onto my kids.
There's a plot of woodland up for auction near where I live.
It's 2 acres, no planning permission which doesn't bother me as it's not to build on for me.
A public footpath and bridleway border the woodland
I would consider using it as a source of fire wood for any fallen trees to save of fuel bills for my log burner at home.
Are there any potential pitfalls I should be wary of or questions I need to ask about buying a private woodland?
Any legal responsibilities etc?
Thanks
Mark

Funny you should ask that, I too have just had a wood burner installed for just the same reason. Well actually not to save money but to establish security of supply at all. I can now gather winter fuel like in that xmas carol and keep warm when the gas or oil price quadruples, once again. Or buy solid fuel (aka coal).

Redundancy in fuel sources will be the name of the game for the next decade or so, I reckon. I have me oil fired or log burning hovel, and a choice of boats to live on so far which use diesel and coal or wood. Keeping a weather eye open for another option too.....

[Gerry557]

There may be some liability in case trees or branches fall onto the public on the footpath or bridleway and the usual liability if people wander in.

With a bit of management this can be mitigated or action taken to remove offending items. There are organisations that can provide advice and I found someone in the parks department who was responsible for such things helpful.

[Dod101]

Presumably it is not what you could call commercial forestry, ie it is not such that you could harvest the trees for profit a few years down the line. I vaguely looked at that some years back and got not much further than you are now. Then asked myself why? There is not much capital appreciation likely but there are potential liabilities. You cannot just leave fallen trees to rot in situ, well I suppose you can but soon the wood will be a mess.

For woodburners you are best to burn well seasoned hardwoods, but most small woods are likely to be at best a mixture and anyway you need to get the trees cut up and removed and then seasoned for at least a couple of years.

Personally I rejected the idea. I could not see the point.

Dod

[Wuffle]

I have in recent memory had to dispose of all the stuff my parents felt the need to own.
Out of everything I kept a car.
Which has the fundamental advantage of being mobile.
I don't know your kids, but the odds of them wanting 2 acres of woodland nowhere near where they live when you choose to pass is low.

W.

[DrFfybes]

A friend of mine owns Alvecot Wood. You can google their site.

It is a labour of love, and much more than a hobby, as they have tried to return it to a more native state with more diversity.

Issues include vanalism, tresspass, theft of equipment from site, travellers having a rest from travelling through the gate you carelessly left unlocked with the broken padlock on the ground next to it, etc etc etc.

Six of our neighbours are accessed by an unregistered road. All have claimed prescriptive easement for right of access on their deeds, and the advice is NOT to register it, as then you have liability.

Paul

[Dod101]

A friend of mine owns Alvecot Wood. You can google their site.

It is a labour of love, and much more than a hobby, as they have tried to return it to a more native state with more diversity.

Issues include vanalism, tresspass, theft of equipment from site, travellers having a rest from travelling through the gate you carelessly left unlocked with the broken padlock on the ground next to it, etc etc etc.

Six of our neighbours are accessed by an unregistered road. All have claimed prescriptive easement for right of access on their deeds, and the advice is NOT to register it, as then you have liability.

Paul

And the of course the possibility of fly tipping and its attendant problems as well.

Dod

[airbus330]

My sister in law bought 2 parcels of grazing meadow in mid Wales about 6 years ago. 14 acres in total. She sold half off for what she paid for the total 2 years ago. A fine investment. Initially she used it to keep a horse on and for weekends of wild camping, she also gets a small amount back from selling the hay. Recently an adjacent abandoned building has come up for sale, which she hopes to buy and convert to a dwelling, so potentially ending up with a home with a 7 acre paddock. There has been a lively market in small parcels of land over the last few years. But you need to buy with careful eye on access, water and geography. We have another friend who bought a small wood on the Welsh borders some years ago for her personal pleasure of getting away from everything. I do not believe it has increased much in value and requires quite a bit a maintenance.

[Matello7777]

Funny you should ask that, I too have just had a wood burner installed for just the same reason. Well actually not to save money but to establish security of supply at all. I can now gather winter fuel like in that xmas carol and keep warm when the gas or oil price quadruples, once again. Or buy solid fuel (aka coal).

Redundancy in fuel sources will be the name of the game for the next decade or so, I reckon. I have me oil fired or log burning hovel, and a choice of boats to live on so far which use diesel and coal or wood. Keeping a weather eye open for another option too.....

The primary reason for me getting a wood burner in the autumn of 2013 was to have control over my own heating in an emergency as well as saving on heating. Too many friends been desperately cold when their central heating has failed.
I've never paid for kindling in 9 years and I haven't paid for wood for 16 months.

I do think from looking at the other responses it might be more trouble that it's worth although it is close to where I live and my son will graduate next summer with a degree in civil engineering so he may want to do something with a piece of land one day.

[Dod101]

My sister in law bought 2 parcels of grazing meadow in mid Wales about 6 years ago. 14 acres in total. She sold half off for what she paid for the total 2 years ago. A fine investment. Initially she used it to keep a horse on and for weekends of wild camping, she also gets a small amount back from selling the hay. Recently an adjacent abandoned building has come up for sale, which she hopes to buy and convert to a dwelling, so potentially ending up with a home with a 7 acre paddock. There has been a lively market in small parcels of land over the last few years. But you need to buy with careful eye on access, water and geography. We have another friend who bought a small wood on the Welsh borders some years ago for her personal pleasure of getting away from everything. I do not believe it has increased much in value and requires quite a bit a maintenance.

If she buys without planning permission that could be a really good investment. Of course, she may not get planning permission..........

Anyway, buying a meadow is very different from buying a wood which is what the OP was asking about.

Dod

[Matello7777]

There may be some liability in case trees or branches fall onto the public on the footpath or bridleway and the usual liability if people wander in.

With a bit of management this can be mitigated or action taken to remove offending items. There are organisations that can provide advice and I found someone in the parks department who was responsible for such things helpful.

This is my concern, the time taken to manage it. Fine if I could just leave it and go and do bits when I please but it's the legal responsibilities that may outweigh the benefits.

[scotview]

We almost purchased 12 acres of woodland.

Just before we finalised the offer we found out that there were ancient badger setts on the land. On a site visit we were made aware that the presence of badgers would have an adverse affect on any possible future planning permission and land with badgers had a degree of duty of care on the landowner.

The land also had a stream with alders along the bank. The cost of clearing a waterway to prevent neighbouring flooding can be very significant.

We didn't complete the purchase.

[Pendrainllwyn]

I bought some woodland around 25 years ago in a lovely rural area. One of the best things I have done. It’s wonderful to own a slice of England and to take good care of it. Your own personal carbon credit scheme and outdoor recreation centre. It has been a very good investment too although that was never my motivation. You will need to keep an eye on it though. Expect people to use it for their own purposes. We have had rubbish (fridges etc) dumped there, experienced vandalism, for example pulling up trees we have planted. I suggest you think hard about your motivations. I also suggest taking a good look at the boundaries and what condition they are in. Mine is surrounded by dry stone walls which need constant maintenance. Looking after a woodland can be a pleasure or a chore depending on your outlook.

Pendrainllwyn

[airbus330]

My sister in law bought 2 parcels of grazing meadow in mid Wales about 6 years ago. 14 acres in total. She sold half off for what she paid for the total 2 years ago. A fine investment. Initially she used it to keep a horse on and for weekends of wild camping, she also gets a small amount back from selling the hay. Recently an adjacent abandoned building has come up for sale, which she hopes to buy and convert to a dwelling, so potentially ending up with a home with a 7 acre paddock. There has been a lively market in small parcels of land over the last few years. But you need to buy with careful eye on access, water and geography. We have another friend who bought a small wood on the Welsh borders some years ago for her personal pleasure of getting away from everything. I do not believe it has increased much in value and requires quite a bit a maintenance.

If she buys without planning permission that could be a really good investment. Of course, she may not get planning permission..........

Anyway, buying a meadow is very different from buying a wood which is what the OP was asking about.

Dod

Yes you are right, the building is a small chapel and there would have to be a change of use as well as the normal planning application. Big gamble, but as is often the case in rural affairs, knowing the right people to ask before committing is useful.

As far as the OP's original post, it said that they were considering buying 'land', then went on to say that they were looking at woodland. I posted because IMHO pasture is a better investment and has greater flexibility of use than woodland. This is reflected in their relative values, also, as a couple of people have posted above owning woodland has its own peculiar risks.

[Dod101]

My sister in law bought 2 parcels of grazing meadow in mid Wales about 6 years ago. 14 acres in total. She sold half off for what she paid for the total 2 years ago. A fine investment. Initially she used it to keep a horse on and for weekends of wild camping, she also gets a small amount back from selling the hay. Recently an adjacent abandoned building has come up for sale, which she hopes to buy and convert to a dwelling, so potentially ending up with a home with a 7 acre paddock. There has been a lively market in small parcels of land over the last few years. But you need to buy with careful eye on access, water and geography. We have another friend who bought a small wood on the Welsh borders some years ago for her personal pleasure of getting away from everything. I do not believe it has increased much in value and requires quite a bit a maintenance.

If she buys without planning permission that could be a really good investment. Of course, she may not get planning permission..........

Anyway, buying a meadow is very different from buying a wood which is what the OP was asking about.

Dod

Yes you are right, the building is a small chapel and there would have to be a change of use as well as the normal planning application. Big gamble, but as is often the case in rural affairs, knowing the right people to ask before committing is useful.

As far as the OP's original post, it said that they were considering buying 'land', then went on to say that they were looking at woodland. I posted because IMHO pasture is a better investment and has greater flexibility of use than woodland. This is reflected in their relative values, also, as a couple of people have posted above owning woodland has its own peculiar risks.

Totally agree.

Dod

[Gerry557]

There may be some liability in case trees or branches fall onto the public on the footpath or bridleway and the usual liability if people wander in.

With a bit of management this can be mitigated or action taken to remove offending items. There are organisations that can provide advice and I found someone in the parks department who was responsible for such things helpful.

This is my concern, the time taken to manage it. Fine if I could just leave it and go and do bits when I please but it's the legal responsibilities that may outweigh the benefits.

Well as a "novice" when you wander round are you saying to yourself that tree looks doggy and that branch looks like it might fall on someone.

The trees might be some distance from the paths and public so unlikely to be an issue. I wouldn't let it put me off just something to be aware of. My expert even got one tree wrong but fortunately no one was hurt. It's not an exact science.

After all Woods did just sit there and do nothing in times gone by.

[Charlottesquare]

There may be some liability in case trees or branches fall onto the public on the footpath or bridleway and the usual liability if people wander in.

With a bit of management this can be mitigated or action taken to remove offending items. There are organisations that can provide advice and I found someone in the parks department who was responsible for such things helpful.

This is my concern, the time taken to manage it. Fine if I could just leave it and go and do bits when I please but it's the legal responsibilities that may outweigh the benefits.

Well as a "novice" when you wander round are you saying to yourself that tree looks doggy and that branch looks like it might fall on someone.

The trees might be some distance from the paths and public so unlikely to be an issue. I wouldn't let it put me off just something to be aware of. My expert even got one tree wrong but fortunately no one was hurt. It's not an exact science.

After all Woods did just sit there and do nothing in times gone by.

They did but there were fewer solicitors back then.

[scrumpyjack]

Having inherited a couple of small parcels of land many decades ago, about 150 miles from where I live, I can confirm it is an awful lot of hassle to be the owner. I have sold them, the last bit earlier this year. I think one of them was bought by a local guy with the same sort of thoughts as you. He has spent the last few years in battles with the Council Planning department and must have enriched his solicitor and architect somewhat, with no perceivable benefit!

[Mike88]

Having had some involvement with land I suggest you consider pricing insurance. Remember if anyone has an accident on your land you will be liable. Put up all the warning signs and fencing you like but you will still be liable. In my very limited experience owning land is a headache.

[Charlottesquare]

Having had some involvement with land I suggest you consider pricing insurance. Remember if anyone has an accident on your land you will be liable. Put up all the warning signs and fencing you like but you will still be liable. In my very limited experience owning land is a headache.

Surely " may be liable" not "will be liable".

It likely rests on how reasonable your actions have been ensuring third party safety rather than the event itself being proof of your negligence, so if you record all you do, the inspections etc, and you are deemed to have acted reasonably you may well escape liability- not all accidents leave someone else liable.