Awful online referencing -- Canopy

[GoSeigen]

Looking to rent a property in Durham and the letting agent has funnelled us to online service Canopy for "referencing".

Obviously, being a regular of these forums I am long retired (from 37) have had no salary income for almost 20 years, rented most of that time, and derive spending money as and when needed from our considerable investment assets. I informed the agent as much but they seem set on us using their intrusive and frankly derisive and probably ineffective (given our circumstances) service.

Is this what renters have to expect these days -- an undignified and unwarranted intrusion into their private affairs by multiple faceless and impersonal third parties? Is there any vestige remaining of a personal service, a look in the eye and a handshake, mutual trust and honour?


More practically, can anyone suggest a sensible way to proceed with the landlord/agent since I am simply unwilling to submit myself and family to the indignity of this nonsense. In summary we are UK subjects with considerable liquid assets, currently a property and business owner, good credit record, reference from previous landlord -- but lack a regular income stream from any employer.

If we can't rent without this sort of charade then I guess we'll just have to buy, which bizarrely will be a less irritating procedure in all probability.


GS

[Lanark]

The thing you have to remember about agents is they are largely incompetent, if they had any legal way to check these things they would just do that and not ask you anything.

So fill in the app, make up a plausible sounding job, give them a burner phone no as the contact, make up answers to all the other questions, it wont matter, the whole thing is a tickbox exercise.

Years ago I took this to the extreme with a lettings agent, I just gave him my number as the reference contact, the same number I was calling him on, he called me up 10 minutes later and I proceeded to give myself a glowing reference, it was hard not to start laughing the whole thing was so ridiculous.

As long as you pay the rent they wont care.

[GoSeigen]

The thing you have to remember about agents is they are largely incompetent, if they had any legal way to check these things they would just do that and not ask you anything.

So fill in the app, make up a plausible sounding job, give them a burner phone no as the contact, make up answers to all the other questions, it wont matter, the whole thing is a tickbox exercise.

Years ago I took this to the extreme with a lettings agent, I just gave him my number as the reference contact, the same number I was calling him on, he called me up 10 minutes later and I proceeded to give myself a glowing reference, it was hard not to start laughing the whole thing was so ridiculous.

As long as you pay the rent they wont care.

I get the main point but...

How do I make up my bank account with all its transaction details -- which is what I am required to provide to random third parties?
How do I fake my passport image which I am also required to hand over to random third parties?
What about tax returns which it seems they regularly demand if the income entries in your bank account (see above) are not in the right format?
etc

I guess you didn't read the reviews??

GS

[Lanark]

Yeah no I wouldn't do any of that, find another agent.

Trustpilot has to be taken with a large grain of salt

[taken2often]

Hi I have moved away from property. I would like to sell my last property but I like my Tenant and would not like to evict her or her children. I have not raised her rent in 10 years or intend to do so although costs have been rising each year. In Scotland I think we are getting near to right to buy from Privater Landlords, We will be unable to evict poor tenants. The Regulation keep changing. Landlords are the bad. Tenants are allowed to abuse them take rent allowance and not pay it etc. I have agreat Tenant but if she moves I sell.

The general quality of human beings is on a downward slope, Abusing Landlords, it is fair game to screw the supposed wealthy.

Bob

[GoSeigen]

Yeah no I wouldn't do any of that, find another agent.

Great idea, but the agent is appointed by the property owner. That property (suitable location, size, price etc,) is not represented by other agents. Si I have to find a way to work with them. For now, I have written an email saying that I've researched Canopy and as it would be unsuitable for a person of my circumstances I am not willing to agree to their service or its terms, could they suggest another way of satisfying the Landlord of our ability to pay, and attached proof of ownership of our current property and business.

Trustpilot has to be taken with a large grain of salt

I apply a shovel full of salt to any review site, but in this case the poor reviews contain specific and well argued reasons, many of which accord with my short encounter with the site.

Regards the link above, I find nothing in the article relevant my use of TrustPilot, so perhaps you could educate us: which business pays people to post poor reviews of a service; and more specifically for Canopy, who would you say has ordered all the bad reviews that appear regarding their service?

GS

[modellingman]

One reason for seeking references is that it acceptable references are a condition imposed by the underwriters of rent guarantee insurance. This is often bundled in by letting agents as part of their letting fee. However, it is not mandatory but does require a bit of imagine on the part of the agent and a discussion with the landlord about the risks involved if the tenant doesn't fit with a conventional model.

I am a landlord (in Durham City, coincidentally) and I mainly let to students. I don't usually bother with references for student tenants and I will consider non-student tenants who don't have the typical three year employment history that typically gets a big tick from the referencers. I had one guy, a new employee at the University (1 year contract, of course, as academic work at the entry level seems to have become part of the gig economy). He offered six months up front, which I took and he stayed for 3 years and paid on time, every time.

I think the approach you have taken is about the best you can do in the circumstances. Just don't mention, even in jest, the cannabis farms that get set up by offering six or 12 months rent in advance, if rent up front is the route you decide on.

Canopy seem to have a strange (to me) business model. The reviews indicate that many of their clients are in fact tenants who are trying to create a record of being good tenants from a financial perspective. I think it illustrates the dire state of the PRS (from a tenant's perspective) that someone has seen the creation of such records as a business opportunity (and one presented by the Open Banking initiative). Judging by the reviews though Canopy's tech might have some way to go.

modellingman

[GoSeigen]

One reason for seeking references is that it acceptable references are a condition imposed by the underwriters of rent guarantee insurance. This is often bundled in by letting agents as part of their letting fee. However, it is not mandatory but does require a bit of imagine on the part of the agent and a discussion with the landlord about the risks involved if the tenant doesn't fit with a conventional model.

I am a landlord (in Durham City, coincidentally) and I mainly let to students. I don't usually bother with references for student tenants and I will consider non-student tenants who don't have the typical three year employment history that typically gets a big tick from the referencers. I had one guy, a new employee at the University (1 year contract, of course, as academic work at the entry level seems to have become part of the gig economy). He offered six months up front, which I took and he stayed for 3 years and paid on time, every time.

I think the approach you have taken is about the best you can do in the circumstances. Just don't mention, even in jest, the cannabis farms that get set up by offering six or 12 months rent in advance, if rent up front is the route you decide on.

Canopy seem to have a strange (to me) business model. The reviews indicate that many of their clients are in fact tenants who are trying to create a record of being good tenants from a financial perspective. I think it illustrates the dire state of the PRS (from a tenant's perspective) that someone has seen the creation of such records as a business opportunity (and one presented by the Open Banking initiative). Judging by the reviews though Canopy's tech might have some way to go.

modellingman

Thanks modellingman, nice to have a landlord's perspective. I've offered rent up front and the landlord didn't seem that bothered but that was before I moaned about the referencing...


In fact I'm kind of a landlord myself but tend towards the view that most people are basically decent and honest so I don't go over the top on the due diligence. Having said that it's annoying when someone skips off without paying, usually that happens with overnight accommodation though when they haven't been able to give cleared payment upfront, which we usually demand.


As a Durham resident do you have any views on purchasing property there, which I am tempted to do? Looking at smaller, lower priced properties, ideally freehold.


GS