Furnished Letting

[the0ni0nking]

I recently posted on the FIRE board which provided a high level summary of my financial position - in short, I'm heavily invested in UK residential property.

Most of my properties are nearby but one is the result of a work relocation where I purchased it c12 years ago when I was based there with work. I've sinced more time than I care to remember.

The property is let furnished (as when I was relocated there, I bought it from scratch and therefore had to furnish it while I maintained my main property).

As it's far too far away for me to manage personally it's managed by a letting agent (who has been very good since I moved to them c 8 years ago).

Today, I got an email from the letting agents stating this:

"The tenant has reported recently that the new bed that was bought has broken. I have informed the tenant that as this bed was only purchased recently, we would not recommend to the landlord that he pay for a new bed to be bought. She accepted this and has said she is going to purchase her own bed. She has asked if we could arrange for someone to come out and build this, I said I can only ask the landlord but as the bed was damaged and only purchased not long ago, you may be reluctant to have to pay for someone to come and assemble this."

The facts of the case are this:

1. In May 2023, the letting agents reported one of the beds (in a two bed furnished flat) was broken.

2. My view was that's fine, it comes with the territory, the property was let furnished and so I will replace it (also paying for the bed to be built in situ and removal of the broken bed).

3. Today, I was advised the new bed (that I purchased and paid for professional assembly) has also broken.

At what stage does one turn round and say that's way beyond fair wear and tear? The tenant has suggested they will but a new bed but they want me to send someone out to put it together.

As it stands, I've responded saying it's not fair wear and tear for a bed to break inside of 5 months so the tenant needs to replace it and also get rid of the old one. And the new one they purchase is not to be removed when they vacate the property at the end of the tenancy.

Am I being a total nightmare landlord or not? I dunno.

[servodude]

it's not fair wear and tear for a bed to break inside of 5 months

In my thinking it depends on whether the tennant has been negligent or the bed has been faulty?

Can you make a warranty claim?
or do you have appropriate insurance you can claim against?

I do see it as the tennant's responsibility to restore your property to the way it should be (subsequent to fair use on the furniture)
- which doesn't necessarily mean "this" bed remains when they leave, only that there is one equivalent to what you had provided
and that might include withholding a suitable part of the deposit

-sd

[the0ni0nking]

To be honest, I'm fairly chilled out about it so it was more a question that I wanted others to opine on.

If push came to shove, I'd likely replace the bed again (but that's based on how long the tenants have been there) rather than anything else.

[Gerry557]

I think there needs to be more clarity on how the beds are breaking. Is it a design flaw or unfit for purpose manufacturing fault or misuse by the tenant.

If it's the latter then it shouldnt be your problem.

You seem to imply that you have a good tenant and consider doing a goodwill gesture and that might foster a good relationship for not too much cost.

The agency seem to think the tenant is responsible.

Did you buy the same bed from the same place. Was the assembly done wrong or poorly.

I would get more info before deciding which way to go.

Also is part of the issue the tenant not being able to assemble the bed themselves. Single mum or disabled which they see as being a bigger issue. Normally it's a couple of clips and a bedhead unless it a larger four poster.

[bungeejumper]

You've reminded me of the time when we invited a neighbour to live with us while his house had the builders in. A lovely bloke, but he's eighteen stone if he's an ounce. Within the first week, he'd broken the bed by sitting down on it too heavily, and the carpet was half-destroyed before very long.

He was (and is) just heavy on his environment! Chairs have broken under his weight. I wonder what the law says about that sort of situation? And would we be liable if he injured himself? It's fortunate that we've never had to find out.

BJ

[Mike4]

You've reminded me of the time when we invited a neighbour to live with us while his house had the builders in. A lovely bloke, but he's eighteen stone if he's an ounce. Within the first week, he'd broken the bed by sitting down on it too heavily, and the carpet was half-destroyed before very long.

He was (and is) just heavy on his environment! Chairs have broken under his weight. I wonder what the law says about that sort of situation? And would we be liable if he injured himself? It's fortunate that we've never had to find out.

BJ

I was wandering exactly the same. Is she a 'big girl' perhaps!

Has the OP seen or asked for photos of the damage to the new bed? Presumably none exist of the previous bed. Also, a 'broken' bed might be easily repaired by a skilled tradesman for a lot less than a new bed, depending on what the photos show.

[Mike4]

You've reminded me of the time when we invited a neighbour to live with us while his house had the builders in. A lovely bloke, but he's eighteen stone if he's an ounce. Within the first week, he'd broken the bed by sitting down on it too heavily, and the carpet was half-destroyed before very long.

He was (and is) just heavy on his environment! Chairs have broken under his weight. I wonder what the law says about that sort of situation? And would we be liable if he injured himself? It's fortunate that we've never had to find out.

BJ

I was wandering exactly the same. Is she a 'big girl' perhaps!

Has the OP seen or asked for photos of the damage to the new bed? Presumably none exist of the previous bed. Also, a 'broken' bed might be easily repaired by a skilled tradesman for a lot less than a new bed, depending on what the photos show.

[GoSeigen]

I would say "it depends".

You might want to inquire into how the bed has broken with a view to claiming from the retailer. This sort of discussion is best had directly with the tenant as agents are notoriously bad at dealing with problems like this -- they really don't want the bother and will not have a financial interest like you do. Maybe just give her a call and say if at all possible you'd like to save her the cost of the bed and how exactly is it broken?


If it really is her and not poor design/manufacture/assembly you could generously offer to replace it in exchange for the occasional video



GS

[the0ni0nking]

This particularly property is located a significant distance from where I live (I purchased it when work relocated me to the other side of the country and have retained it since).

So the property is entirely managed by a letting agent who I've been with for probably c8 years; possibly more.

I therefore have never seen the tenants so am unable to either contact them or advise on their particular size!

I did say to the letting agent to make sure it is actually the bed that has broken and not just some slats. Checking back on my paperwork, the new bed was https://www.argos.co.uk/product/5499441 ... R=plp:1:20 (albeit the price has changed marginally since my purchase) and fitting and disposal of the previous bed cost me £120 - so a replacement bed etc incident costs c£370.

I should probably digitise my records, but all properties are monitored on paper (in a format that aligns with the self assessment categories) and on reviewing this particular property it did become apparent that this property seems to incur more than it's fair share of "property repairs and maintenance" expenditure this year when compared to previous years. However, the tenants have been in place for longer than this so I'm putting it down to an "unlucky" period rather than anything more sinister.

The property still more than wipes its face and I'm sure Messrs Sunak and Hunt will be delighted that it continues to contribute into the Treasurys coffers!

[Dicky99]

As someone else suggested, request photos. I have a bed frame similar to that style. The centrally located spine with the two vertical legs is a flimsy weak point in the design as I discovered. Drag the bed sideways and that spine tries to rotate and breaks where it joins to the head and foot of the bed. Then the centre point of the slats are not supported.
Based on my experience I'm gonna guess that's where it's broken. If so a handyman would repair it quicker than it would take to construct a new bed frame kit.

[modellingman]

I did say to the letting agent to make sure it is actually the bed that has broken and not just some slats. Checking back on my paperwork, the new bed was https://www.argos.co.uk/product/5499441 ... R=plp:1:20 (albeit the price has changed marginally since my purchase) and fitting and disposal of the previous bed cost me £120 - so a replacement bed etc incident costs c£370.

Looking at the design, the bed has half-width slats which are supported on a central piece running from the headboard to the footboard. This central piece is itself supported by two verticals to the flooring. This is a weak point in the design. And, as Dicky99 has noted if the bed is moved, particularly if the bed is dragged to move it and particularly if the bed is on carpet rather than a smoother surface (such as laminate), the two verticals quickly become non-verticals. Once that happens the support for that central piece is largely lost.

I'm a landlord who mainly lets to students and have used beds of a similar design in the past. Young people can put a lot of strain (to put it mildly) on that central piece so some reinforcement can help to avoid problems.

Replacing the half-width slats with full width ones is one possibility. The supplied slats are in my experience often of quite a flimsy quality and replacing with better quality and full width slats helps. But the real weakness is the two verticals which are each attached to the central piece by a single thin screw running down the grain of the wood - not a robust joint. In the extreme I have been known to cobble together a box made from chipboard or similar to provide much better support than the two verticals manage and which keeps its integrity as a support when the bed is moved.

A bed like that really should last for years. No matter how much the property "wipes its face" the hassle of dealing with this on a regular basis is not something I would want. A decent handyman should be able to diagnose the problem and sort it out for significantly less than the replacement cost you have noted.

modellingman

[Gerry557]

That argos bed looks like it might be a problem and with the design so not necessary a tenant problem.

have a look at https://www.bensonsforbeds.co.uk/produc ... =STK268012

I think this was one I used and was quite strong and didnt have the silly supports

[the0ni0nking]

I received pictures of the bed today (there was actually a property inspection due by the letting agent and they deliberately took some additional pictures of the bed and the break as well as the usual pictures).

The break is on the main middle beam of the bed for the slats - pretty much by one of the downward "pillars" (more obvious looking at picture 4 on the below link https://www.argos.co.uk/product/5499441 ... R=plp:1:20)

Tenant has ordered a new bed, I'm trying to remove furniture (especially stuff like beds) from any letting property so assuming the tenant disposes of the now broken bed (which I think could have been easily repaired if the tenant had a modicum of DIY skills) and also removes the new bed they've purchased when they eventually vacate then all good.

The letting agent is going to advise the tenant that the broken bed wasn't fair wear and tear and because they've gone and bought another bed that they may now suffer a deduction from their deposit to re-instate a bed at the end of their tenancy. I likely won't do this (replace the bed) at the end of the tenancy but similarly if they stay there a few more years; paying the rent etc; I almost certainly won't seek to take anything from their deposit either.

[GoSeigen]

The letting agent is going to advise the tenant that the broken bed wasn't fair wear and tear and because they've gone and bought another bed that they may now suffer a deduction from their deposit to re-instate a bed at the end of their tenancy. I likely won't do this (replace the bed) at the end of the tenancy but similarly if they stay there a few more years; paying the rent etc; I almost certainly won't seek to take anything from their deposit either.

I'm sorry but to me this looks incredibly unjust to the poor tenant.

-The landlord agreed to let a property with bed supplied.
-The landlord purchased a bed which (according to several people responding to his request for advice) is poorly designed and prone to get damaged if it is moved, for example to clean under the bed which admittedly is a heavy item to shift around when doing the cleaning.
-The bed was damaged when almost new, certainly less than 6 months old and prima facie this looks like an item unfit for purpose or of poor quality sold under consumer legislation. So there is very likely a strong claim against the retailer, even more so if it was a distant (e.g. online) transaction.
-The landlord, despite being responsible for supplying the poor bed and having a claim against the retailer, is instead proposing not only to have the tenant supply a new bed herself but ALSO to remove the damaged bed at her expense and ALSO pay out of her deposit the cost of the faulty bed or its replacement (this will be communicated to her and presumably carried out if she has the temerity to leave in less than a "few more years").
-And the landlord will do all this knowing that he really doesn't want any bed in the property anyway, so will just pocket the deduction from the deposit.

If I were this landlord I would be on the phone ASAP to the tenant apologising for the flimsy bed, and asking for a little grace to arrange a replacement with the retailer, failing which she'd have the option of either buying a new bed for herself and keeping it or buying an acceptable replacement at my expense to remain in the property at the end of the tenancy.

The difference between what I would find fair and what the OP proposes to do is so stark that I feel I must have got the wrong end of the stick. However I find it difficult to believe that I have misunderstood "they will suffer a deduction from their deposit" because "they've gone and bought another bed". Honestly the cheek of tenants these days!

GS
EDIT: There may be a back story here but from the actual information in this thread and assuming good faith I can't see that the tenant has done anything wrong.

[Dicky99]

I'm not a landlord but because I've done a lot of work in social housing I know the value of tenant proofing as far as reasonably practical. Solid internal doors instead of light weight ones for example, plywood kitchen carcasses instead chipboard, contract grade carpets etc.
Strikes me this is all a lot of faff and wasteage compared to getting the agent to arrange a handyman repair. Presumably that's within their remit. Increase the section size of the central spine from 2"x1" to 3"×2" and fix it head and foot of the frame with some more substantial angle brackets and screw fixings.

[the0ni0nking]

There's not really much of a back-story but as I said before, the property is far away from me and letting agent managed. I don't, and have no desire to get involved with discussions directly with the tenant. What's the point of paying an agent if I have to do that?

(As an aside, I have had to do this previously but this was because it turned out the letting agent (a reasonable sized chain that had recently at the time been bought by a regional building society) was charging me for work on the property (it's this same one - maybe it's cursed!) that wasn't actually getting done. I only found out about this because the letting agent forwarded me an email from the tenant complaining about not having had a repair completed that they brought up a number of months previously so I went back to them and told them I'd paid for that repair, I've got a receipt to prove it, so I've no idea what the letting agent is up to! Anyhow, there starts a much longer story than is needed here that ended up with some serious issues for the letting agent and me moving the property to the letting agent I'm with now who I certainly appears more professional albeit sometimes a little needy in terms of needing my permission to do stuff).

The indication I have from the letting agent is that the tenant acknowledges it is there fault that the bed broke rather than manufacturer defect or something else outwith of the tenants control - I've not enquired as to why or how as it's none of my business. It's from that starting point that most of my opinions are based in terms of how to resolve it bearing in mind that it turns out that the tenant had already ordered a new bed before actually reporting the issue in the first place - so that therefore limits some options that were otherwise open.

[the0ni0nking]

NB - I take those comments on the chin GoSeigen,

I do try and be as pragmatic as possible when it comes to my rental properties so maybe I've been caught on an especially bad and grumpy week (although I have no excuse as I've just arrived in Spain for a couple of months to escape the awful UK weather).

I do accept it's alot easier when speaking with the tenant direct (or been able to visit the property). If the property had been local to me, I'd likely have visited myself upon it getting reported together with a few bits of DIY equipment and likely repaired it on the same day - in which case, I'd have been especially miffed if I then got told they'd ordered a new bed already!

The property is let to professionals (I don't think it's a cheap let for the area it is in - I was fortunate to be able to purchase it shortly after the financial crash when we had the stamp duty holiday on all purchases below a certain value etc).

Over the last 10 years or so of letting this property, I have found a propensity among (single professional) tenants in general not to do really basic things - like asking me to send for a person to come out to change lightbulbs - so it can be a fine balancing act between being a reasonable landlord and not allowing tenants to basically drain any return from a landlord by expecting an on-call and on-demand caretaker to do anything.

Anyhow, time for the Friday pub quiz.

[Lanark]

This central piece is itself supported by two verticals to the flooring. This is a weak point in the design.

There was a time when Argos could be relied upon for decent basic quality, but thats no longer the case.
So much garbage that might as well be from aliexpress.

I think a good basic supplier for furniture now is Marks and Spencer, not my style but for something basic which works in a rental its a good option.

[Mike4]

If you decide not to supply a bed, what will probably happen instead is the tenant will buy their own cheap and horrible bed then when they vacate, the leave said well-used and grubby bed in the flat for you to dipose of out of their meagre deposit.

DAMHIK.

[Gerry557]

I think the tenant may have conceded on fault because the agency basically told them it was their fault and they might be concerned that they might suffer in some other way such as eviction.

Not that you come across that way on here. Personally I think it a poor product albeit tenants probably won't look after stuff as nicely as you would. Moving it won't have don't it any favors either assuming it has been moved.

The tenant may have wanted their own bed or just needed something quickly as they couldn't sleep on the current one. Yes it's disappointing when simple tasks can't be done by a tenant. Putting a bed together seems simple for an able bodied person. I remember driving 200 miles to turn a switch on! (it's a much longer story)

It looks like things have been sorted. You are happy and have one bed less to worry about. The tenant has a bed that they picked. If circumstances were different I might be taking the bed issue up with argos or the maker. Did you use a credit card?

Hopefully you can both live in harmony for several years. A great tenant is worth their weight in gold. A good tenant is a joy even a reasonable tenant is OK. There are bad tenants out there so be greatful you don't have one.