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Bust energy suppliers

Making your money go further
Alaric
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#460128

Postby Alaric » November 22nd, 2021, 4:03 pm

richfool wrote: its largest creditor the Sequoia Economic Infrastructure Income Fund.


Sequoia's take on this.

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-sear ... share-news
(select the news item of today currently at the top right)

Seemingly the fund is at risk for 2.9% of its NAV.

If this were to occur, the Investment Adviser notes that the parent company of Bulb, Simple Energy Limited ("Simple"), would enter into normal administration. SEQI would like to note that its Investment Adviser remains actively engaged with all the relevant Bulb stakeholders. As previously noted, SEQI's loan to Bulb is £55.0 million (approximately 2.9% of NAV as at 31 October 2021) and is guaranteed by Simple.

Fluke
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#460487

Postby Fluke » November 24th, 2021, 9:05 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:I have yet to do that with eon.next.

They've sent a few emails with links, but they're the kind of tracking links that send me running for the hills. Guess I'll have to hold my nose and click sometime :evil:


I've just done it but I wanted to go variable rather than a fixed, just pay for what I use, they say you can, see below, but the only option you get when you're setting up your direct debit is to fix the amount each month. Let me know if you see any different.

Variable or Fixed?
Variable Direct Debit
You pay for the energy you use, which means payments will vary across the year. Generally it’s lower in summer and higher across winter months.

Fixed Direct Debit
You pay a fixed cost which we’ve calculated based on your historic consumption we average out across 12 months so you pay the same each month.

pje16
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#461030

Postby pje16 » November 26th, 2021, 8:44 am

Two more gone
Entice and Orbit (never heard of them though)
One has less than 6,000 customers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59414799

scotview
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#461058

Postby scotview » November 26th, 2021, 9:39 am

I see that the Gov. have set aside £1.6 Billion due to Bulb's failure.......why ??

pje16
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#461060

Postby pje16 » November 26th, 2021, 9:44 am

Because gas is being sold at below cost
so no-one wants to take on 1.7m customers on those terms

scotview
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#461070

Postby scotview » November 26th, 2021, 10:06 am

pje16 wrote:Because gas is being sold at below cost


Should a company with a business model that sells a product at less than the "at cost" value deserve to be bailed out to the tune of £1.6 Billion.

swill453
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#461074

Postby swill453 » November 26th, 2021, 10:13 am

scotview wrote:
pje16 wrote:Because gas is being sold at below cost

Should a company with a business model that sells a product at less than the "at cost" value deserve to be bailed out to the tune of £1.6 Billion.

The only real alternative would be to allow those 1.7 million customers to be immediately charged the full current spot price for their energy.

All those widows, orphans etc. suddenly seeing their bills going up 5-fold wouldn't go down well...

Scott.

pje16
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#461082

Postby pje16 » November 26th, 2021, 10:35 am

scotview wrote:
pje16 wrote:Because gas is being sold at below cost


Should a company with a business model that sells a product at less than the "at cost" value deserve to be bailed out to the tune of £1.6 Billion.

If you sold to your customers at a fixed rate you CANNOT put the price up

We will all feel the effect once those deals expire :o

daveh
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#461097

Postby daveh » November 26th, 2021, 11:10 am

scotview wrote:
pje16 wrote:Because gas is being sold at below cost


Should a company with a business model that sells a product at less than the "at cost" value deserve to be bailed out to the tune of £1.6 Billion.

It didn't have a business model of selling a product below cost. It was forced to sell at below cost by the regulator. It wasn't allowed to put up its prices to the level where it was breaking even. If the company had been allowed to go bust then no other company would take on the customers as they would then be supplying at below cost. The well run companies will have bought ahead for their customers on fixed tariffs and possibly for those on variable tariffs so may still be making a profit. But they will be unable to buy gas* in the wholesale market now at a price that would be covered by the ofgem mandated price cap.

* electricity may no be such a problem as last time I looked the wholesale price was around £70 per MWh and I'm paying ~20p per kWh (£200 per MWh) plus the standing charge for electricity, but gas on the wholesale market was going at something like 4x the cap price.

UncleEbenezer
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#461385

Postby UncleEbenezer » November 27th, 2021, 11:00 am

pje16 wrote:
scotview wrote:
pje16 wrote:Because gas is being sold at below cost


Should a company with a business model that sells a product at less than the "at cost" value deserve to be bailed out to the tune of £1.6 Billion.

If you sold to your customers at a fixed rate you CANNOT put the price up

We will all feel the effect once those deals expire :o


You can't, but a company that inherits your customers as supplier-of-last-resort isn't bound by that.

It's the price cap that's hurting suppliers, regardless of whether their business model was entirely prudent. Nearly a decade ago, before the government had adopted this particular Labour policy, I wrote of Caroline Flint's Gift to Hedge Funds:
A highlight of the Party Conference season was Labour leader Ed Miliband’s promise to freeze energy prices for 20 months. Now in a radio interview his shadow minister for energy Caroline Flint has told us more. There will be a freeze, regardless of what wholesale prices do and that’s OK because the energy companies contract for their supplies 2 years ahead anyway.

Oh, erm, right. Yes, there is a market for energy futures, and energy companies use it (though just contracting everything with a fixed time window would not merely defeat the purpose, it would leave no flexibility to respond to demand issues such as a cold spell). So too do pure speculators who contribute nothing of value but who, free of constraints like the need to supply energy to real customers, have the flexibility to exploit whatever market trends might constrain and force the hands of real users.

Who is going to take advantage? It’s the nimble and flexible. Private individuals may get in on the act, but the big players who will really call the shots are the hedge funds. Mr Miliband and Ms Flint have announced a huge gift to hedge funds!

There’s nothing hypothetical about that. The banking crash of 2008/9 threw up similar opportunities for the nimble, and even as a complete rookie investor I was able to take advantage and trade bank shares at a profit. Commodities are not so accessible to the little man, but professional investors are doubtless looking forward to it.

Nor is it just hedge funds. There’s another class of passive speculator called ETFs (Exchange Traded Funds) that are, I believe, quite a lot bigger. They are the very opposite to nimble: they must just follow the markets. Whatever hedge funds do will automatically be magnified by ETFs. They’ll make money on momentum and lose it when nimble hedge funds switch their positions, but their overall effect is to amplify the market movements that take advantage of our utilities’ positions being forced.

Meanwhile the losers will be the companies themselves, their less-nimble shareholders (from less-sophisticated individuals to sophisticated-but-constrained pension funds), and of course future energy supplies (though, to be fair, that last applies to politicians on all sides). Above all, our suppliers are coerced into buying energy at artificially-inflated wholesale prices, so who will eventually pay for that?

I wonder what our utility companies are even now doing to prepare for the possibility of their market being rigged against them? They’re always up against the hedgies up to a point, and now in addition they have one hand (two hands if Labour look like winning the next election) tied behind their back. Nor can they afford to compete on pay for top hedgies to trade futures markets, though that at least is not necessarily a drawback. Whatever they do, they’re now going to have to pay, in effect, an insurance premium against adverse market conditions out of their control. And pass that cost on to consumers.

AF62
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#462489

Postby AF62 » December 2nd, 2021, 6:48 am

And another one gone, Zog Energy, who supplied my gas.

No surprise as they had fewer than 12,000 customers, and I was only surprised they didn’t fold earlier.


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