Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to Howard,bruncher,SalvorHardin,tea42,yyuryyub, for Donating to support the site

Energy costs. Oh dear.......

Making your money go further
scrumpyjack
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3465
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:15 am
Has thanked: 351 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#519859

Postby scrumpyjack » August 4th, 2022, 4:51 pm

scotview wrote:I see UK gas is approaching £400/therm.

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/uk-natural-gas

The Bank of England press conference was pretty dismissive and shoulder shrugging.

I dont think folk realise the gravity of the situation in the UK. There could very well be civil unrest this winter.


I think you mean 400 pence per therm, don't you!?

scotview
Lemon Slice
Posts: 497
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:00 am
Has thanked: 246 times
Been thanked: 343 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#519862

Postby scotview » August 4th, 2022, 4:58 pm

scrumpyjack wrote:
I think you mean 400 pence per therm, don't you!?


Your right, thanks.

James
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 188
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:12 pm
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 62 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#519906

Postby James » August 4th, 2022, 7:50 pm

scrumpyjack wrote:Why will they pay it back? Can you tell me of any time any British Government has paid back debt. They always kick the can down the road.
The only sense in which they ever reduce it is a a percentage of GDP. That isn't paying it back,


In the past decade it has paid off its WWI bonds, Gladstone's South Sea Bubble consolidation bond and its slave-owner compensation debt.
It does happen. But it can take a while.

scrumpyjack
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3465
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:15 am
Has thanked: 351 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#519918

Postby scrumpyjack » August 4th, 2022, 8:40 pm

James wrote:
scrumpyjack wrote:Why will they pay it back? Can you tell me of any time any British Government has paid back debt. They always kick the can down the road.
The only sense in which they ever reduce it is a a percentage of GDP. That isn't paying it back,


In the past decade it has paid off its WWI bonds, Gladstone's South Sea Bubble consolidation bond and its slave-owner compensation debt.
It does happen. But it can take a while.


Any paying off of some creditors is accompanied by increased debt from other creditors. I don't count that! Re-mortgaging is not paying off your mortgage

monabri
Lemon Half
Posts: 6542
Joined: January 7th, 2017, 9:56 am
Has thanked: 995 times
Been thanked: 2485 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521154

Postby monabri » August 9th, 2022, 8:10 pm

Source: Matt, Daily Telegraph.

Image

funduffer
Lemon Slice
Posts: 965
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:11 pm
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 541 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521155

Postby funduffer » August 9th, 2022, 8:12 pm

BullDog wrote:And back on topic....... So we have had our Octopus GO tariff running for a while now. On the Octopus app we have been surprised just how successful the strategy of timeshifting our energy usage is. Typically, in a 24 hour period we are presently using between about 14 to 16 kw/hr of electricity. I estimate probably 80% of our daily electricity consumption is now between 12.30 and 04.30 each day. When we have another week or so history I will download the csv file from the Octopus app and see if I can determine more accurately the peak and off peak consumption.

We have timeshifted the following to only run on the four hour off peak tariff. Some or all of these now only run in the off peak period - PHEV charger, washing machine, dishwasher. In the winter when drying washing the (heat pump) drier will be used only in that period too.

Seems that so far we should have made a significant dent in the price we are paying for our electricity consumption. In the winter we will obviously be using the gas central heating and the gas price is 3x what it was previously. There's not a lot I can do there.


Hi bulldog, I am glad you are getting the best from the Octopus Go tariff. If you are managing to get 80% of daily electricity usage during the nighttime off peak hours, that is very impressive. I get 55%, and that is with an electric car (which I charge at night) and solar panels. We do breadmaking, washing, and dishwashing in the night hours, as well as charging the car. However that still leaves the kettle, iron, lights, and cooking during the peak hours, which of course are mitigated by the solar panels.

My wife now has a plan to cook at night, especially during the winter when solar power is low. I think she means putting in a stew in the oven on the timer, not getting up in the middle of the night!

FD

scotview
Lemon Slice
Posts: 497
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:00 am
Has thanked: 246 times
Been thanked: 343 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521161

Postby scotview » August 9th, 2022, 8:32 pm

funduffer wrote:
BullDog wrote:And back on topic....... So we have had our Octopus GO tariff running for a while now. On the Octopus app we have been surprised just how successful the strategy of timeshifting our energy usage is.


Hi bulldog, I am glad you are getting the best from the Octopus Go tariff. If you are managing to get 80% of daily electricity usage during the nighttime off peak hours, that is very impressive. I get 55%, and that is with an electric car (which I charge at night)

FD


Hi guys, I'm glad that you are benefitting from Octopus Energy tariffs. Just a couple of points.

1 Our Scottish Power fixed tariff ended 2 weeks ago, I input my month end usage figures and they still haven't updated our end of July bill.

2 Almost as bad, I have sent 3 (three) emails to Octopus enquiring about an appropriate off peak, BEV, battery friendly tariff. So far a Marie Celeste silence.

3 These power companies are now really beginning to take the p*ss.

4 Even though you guys are doing a great job of minimising your Electricity Bill cost, do you realise that if you heated your homes with electricity your fuel bill would go up by about 15 times higher.

There's something not right with the energy business, cant put my finger on it but something has to give.

monabri
Lemon Half
Posts: 6542
Joined: January 7th, 2017, 9:56 am
Has thanked: 995 times
Been thanked: 2485 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521162

Postby monabri » August 9th, 2022, 8:45 pm

scotview wrote:
2 Almost as bad, I have sent 3 (three) emails to Octopus enquiring about an appropriate off peak, BEV, battery friendly tariff. So far a Marie Celeste silence.

3 These power companies are now really beginning to take the p*ss.



I've emailed BG 4th July abou a simple tariff problem - not even an acknowledgement. I've been in touch with them via the chat line to sort out the tariff and even got a reference number.. When I contact them, the call centre is "abroad"...sounds very like India. But the problem has not been resolved.

pje16
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3978
Joined: May 30th, 2021, 6:01 pm
Has thanked: 999 times
Been thanked: 1164 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521170

Postby pje16 » August 9th, 2022, 8:55 pm

My last bill showed I owed the princely sum of £16
Shell's knee-jerk reaction, to increase by nearly 3 times that amount
Still I will be in a healthy credit by October

NotSure
Lemon Slice
Posts: 486
Joined: February 5th, 2021, 4:45 pm
Has thanked: 345 times
Been thanked: 179 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521176

Postby NotSure » August 9th, 2022, 9:11 pm

scotview wrote:
There's something not right with the energy business, cant put my finger on it but something has to give.


I believe your current supplier, whoever that may be, is legally obliged to charge you at the capped rate. Other suppliers have no such obligation AIUI. Hence you'd be looking at the going rate from them, about 3x or 4x.

BullDog
Lemon Slice
Posts: 890
Joined: November 18th, 2021, 11:57 am
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 358 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521182

Postby BullDog » August 9th, 2022, 9:19 pm

funduffer wrote:
BullDog wrote:And back on topic....... So we have had our Octopus GO tariff running for a while now. On the Octopus app we have been surprised just how successful the strategy of timeshifting our energy usage is. Typically, in a 24 hour period we are presently using between about 14 to 16 kw/hr of electricity. I estimate probably 80% of our daily electricity consumption is now between 12.30 and 04.30 each day. When we have another week or so history I will download the csv file from the Octopus app and see if I can determine more accurately the peak and off peak consumption.

We have timeshifted the following to only run on the four hour off peak tariff. Some or all of these now only run in the off peak period - PHEV charger, washing machine, dishwasher. In the winter when drying washing the (heat pump) drier will be used only in that period too.

Seems that so far we should have made a significant dent in the price we are paying for our electricity consumption. In the winter we will obviously be using the gas central heating and the gas price is 3x what it was previously. There's not a lot I can do there.


Hi bulldog, I am glad you are getting the best from the Octopus Go tariff. If you are managing to get 80% of daily electricity usage during the nighttime off peak hours, that is very impressive. I get 55%, and that is with an electric car (which I charge at night) and solar panels. We do breadmaking, washing, and dishwashing in the night hours, as well as charging the car. However that still leaves the kettle, iron, lights, and cooking during the peak hours, which of course are mitigated by the solar panels.

My wife now has a plan to cook at night, especially during the winter when solar power is low. I think she means putting in a stew in the oven on the timer, not getting up in the middle of the night!

FD

Thanks. We have a bit more experience now and we are managing somewhere between 60 and 80% electricity use on the EV tariff period. The low figure is when we don't need to charge the PHEV overnight. Still an excellent result, I am impressed with how it is working out. Gas use in winter is going to be a bigger problem. We have now stocked up on a couple of tonnes of dry, hard wood to run the wood burner every evening in winter. Planning to make less use of the gas central heating. Will have to wait and see how that works out.

BullDog
Lemon Slice
Posts: 890
Joined: November 18th, 2021, 11:57 am
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 358 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521186

Postby BullDog » August 9th, 2022, 9:28 pm

scotview wrote:
funduffer wrote:
BullDog wrote:And back on topic....... So we have had our Octopus GO tariff running for a while now. On the Octopus app we have been surprised just how successful the strategy of timeshifting our energy usage is.


Hi bulldog, I am glad you are getting the best from the Octopus Go tariff. If you are managing to get 80% of daily electricity usage during the nighttime off peak hours, that is very impressive. I get 55%, and that is with an electric car (which I charge at night)

FD


Hi guys, I'm glad that you are benefitting from Octopus Energy tariffs. Just a couple of points.

1 Our Scottish Power fixed tariff ended 2 weeks ago, I input my month end usage figures and they still haven't updated our end of July bill.

2 Almost as bad, I have sent 3 (three) emails to Octopus enquiring about an appropriate off peak, BEV, battery friendly tariff. So far a Marie Celeste silence.

3 These power companies are now really beginning to take the p*ss.

4 Even though you guys are doing a great job of minimising your Electricity Bill cost, do you realise that if you heated your homes with electricity your fuel bill would go up by about 15 times higher.

There's something not right with the energy business, cant put my finger on it but something has to give.

On my current gas tariff that's not actually true. Given that my gas tariff has just increased by 3x then my gas bill is going to be far higher than in it was. Far higher than my electric bill will be this winter.

To be clear, I haven't said anywhere here that I intend to switch space heating from gas to electric.

There's not a great scope for reducing my gas use this winter without compromising our comfort. I have explored all possibilities. We intend far more use of the wood burner this year.

It remains to be seen how it works out in practice versus gas central heating use and personal comfort.

scotview
Lemon Slice
Posts: 497
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:00 am
Has thanked: 246 times
Been thanked: 343 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521188

Postby scotview » August 9th, 2022, 9:36 pm

NotSure wrote:
scotview wrote:
There's something not right with the energy business, cant put my finger on it but something has to give.


I believe your current supplier, whoever that may be, is legally obliged to charge you at the capped rate. Other suppliers have no such obligation AIUI. Hence you'd be looking at the going rate from them, about 3x or 4x.


Thanks for that supportive comments but Octopus dont hesitate to tell you what good rates they can provide for BEV/Battery owners. Well, it looks like you are saying that BEV owners will just be whacked with X3 or X4 regardless....or worse still they will simply be ignored.

We do not personally have a problem since we have good insulation levels and zoned heating AND a very small condensing boiler with very high turn down efficiency. So the heating is sorted.

I am currently working on a rationing/power cut strategy. We have bottled gas and 3 virtually new portable heaters. We will additionally purchase 3 of the large 46kg bottles this month and that should see us through regardless, luckily we can store them safely. Our local supplier has guaranteed that he will reserve extra bottles if there is a serious shortage or run on bottled gas, we are good trusted customers. We have a gas hob for cooking so we're sorted. Anyone not preparing now will be screwed this winter.

NotSure
Lemon Slice
Posts: 486
Joined: February 5th, 2021, 4:45 pm
Has thanked: 345 times
Been thanked: 179 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521318

Postby NotSure » August 10th, 2022, 12:06 pm

scotview wrote:
Thanks for that supportive comments but Octopus dont hesitate to tell you what good rates they can provide for BEV/Battery owners.


I'm not quite sure I understand you, but my comment was neither intended to be supportive or unsupportive. Basically, wholesale gas and electric prices are way above the current cap. However, suppliers are obliged to keep prices at the cap for variable rate customers, and when fixed rate deals end, they are obliged to offer a capped variable rate.

However, if you try to switch you will find that you are offered fixes at well (well) above the capped rate. Hence why Octopus are likely not responding - they are fairly confident you'll just choose to stay with your current supplier at a capped rate.

richlist
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1419
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:54 pm
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 397 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521380

Postby richlist » August 10th, 2022, 3:15 pm

scotview wrote:
NotSure wrote:
scotview wrote:
There's something not right with the energy business, cant put my finger on it but something has to give.


I believe your current supplier, whoever that may be, is legally obliged to charge you at the capped rate. Other suppliers have no such obligation AIUI. Hence you'd be looking at the going rate from them, about 3x or 4x.


Thanks for that supportive comments but Octopus dont hesitate to tell you what good rates they can provide for BEV/Battery owners. Well, it looks like you are saying that BEV owners will just be whacked with X3 or X4 regardless....or worse still they will simply be ignored.

We do not personally have a problem since we have good insulation levels and zoned heating AND a very small condensing boiler with very high turn down efficiency. So the heating is sorted.

I am currently working on a rationing/power cut strategy. We have bottled gas and 3 virtually new portable heaters. We will additionally purchase 3 of the large 46kg bottles this month and that should see us through regardless, luckily we can store them safely. Our local supplier has guaranteed that he will reserve extra bottles if there is a serious shortage or run on bottled gas, we are good trusted customers. We have a gas hob for cooking so we're sorted. Anyone not preparing now will be screwed this winter.

Be aware that the use of bottled gas produces a lot of condensation.

ReformedCharacter
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2329
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:12 am
Has thanked: 1916 times
Been thanked: 896 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521389

Postby ReformedCharacter » August 10th, 2022, 3:33 pm

scotview wrote:
I am currently working on a rationing/power cut strategy. We have bottled gas and 3 virtually new portable heaters. We will additionally purchase 3 of the large 46kg bottles this month and that should see us through regardless, luckily we can store them safely. Our local supplier has guaranteed that he will reserve extra bottles if there is a serious shortage or run on bottled gas, we are good trusted customers. We have a gas hob for cooking so we're sorted. Anyone not preparing now will be screwed this winter.

I remember my ever-practical father during the '70's reading his newspaper courtesy of a spare car battery, a length of cable with crocodile clips at one end and a spare headlight bulb on the other. I have a paraffin lamp and a lot of logs.

RC

pje16
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3978
Joined: May 30th, 2021, 6:01 pm
Has thanked: 999 times
Been thanked: 1164 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521394

Postby pje16 » August 10th, 2022, 3:45 pm

ReformedCharacter wrote:I remember my ever-practical father during the '70's reading his newspaper courtesy of a spare car battery, a length of cable with crocodile clips at one end and a spare headlight bulb on the other. I have a paraffin lamp and a lot of logs.
RC

and the Fire Brigade on speed dial :lol:

ReformedCharacter
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2329
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:12 am
Has thanked: 1916 times
Been thanked: 896 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521397

Postby ReformedCharacter » August 10th, 2022, 4:00 pm

pje16 wrote:
ReformedCharacter wrote:I remember my ever-practical father during the '70's reading his newspaper courtesy of a spare car battery, a length of cable with crocodile clips at one end and a spare headlight bulb on the other. I have a paraffin lamp and a lot of logs.
RC

and the Fire Brigade on speed dial :lol:

Yeah, you need to be careful but I did manage to live somewhere without electricity and with only a torch and paraffin lamp for light for two years without setting my house on fire, so I expect I can manage it again. And I do have a fire extinguisher these days :)

RC

Mike4
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4894
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1166 times
Been thanked: 2476 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521411

Postby Mike4 » August 10th, 2022, 4:42 pm

richlist wrote:
scotview wrote:
NotSure wrote:
scotview wrote:
There's something not right with the energy business, cant put my finger on it but something has to give.


I believe your current supplier, whoever that may be, is legally obliged to charge you at the capped rate. Other suppliers have no such obligation AIUI. Hence you'd be looking at the going rate from them, about 3x or 4x.


Thanks for that supportive comments but Octopus dont hesitate to tell you what good rates they can provide for BEV/Battery owners. Well, it looks like you are saying that BEV owners will just be whacked with X3 or X4 regardless....or worse still they will simply be ignored.

We do not personally have a problem since we have good insulation levels and zoned heating AND a very small condensing boiler with very high turn down efficiency. So the heating is sorted.

I am currently working on a rationing/power cut strategy. We have bottled gas and 3 virtually new portable heaters. We will additionally purchase 3 of the large 46kg bottles this month and that should see us through regardless, luckily we can store them safely. Our local supplier has guaranteed that he will reserve extra bottles if there is a serious shortage or run on bottled gas, we are good trusted customers. We have a gas hob for cooking so we're sorted. Anyone not preparing now will be screwed this winter.

Be aware that the use of bottled gas produces a lot of condensation.


Yes, much the same amount as with Natural Gas.

And with a room-sealed boiler, it all goes out the flue!

James
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 188
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:12 pm
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 62 times

Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......

#521420

Postby James » August 10th, 2022, 5:11 pm

ReformedCharacter wrote:I remember my ever-practical father during the '70's reading his newspaper courtesy of a spare car battery, a length of cable with crocodile clips at one end and a spare headlight bulb on the other. I have a paraffin lamp and a lot of logs.

RC

As I kid I worked on a high-country station in NZ. Across the river there was a guy who was totally off-grid, with just an old wood stove for cooking and heating, and a small water-wheel that gave him enough DC for light and to run the radio.
He could be flooded- or snowed-in for months at a time so self-sufficiency was a matter of survival.


Return to “Living Below Your Means”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests