Page 7 of 49
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 1st, 2022, 6:19 pm
by BullDog
bungeejumper wrote:BullDog wrote:There's even ideas being punted around to fine companies that fit gas boilers and don't fit enough heat pumps to meet some arbitrary target.
I'm sure I don't know how that's going to work? None of the self-employed Gas Safe plumbers I know are fitting heat pumps, because it's a totally different technology (and indeed a totally different approach to heating), and they say they wouldn't really know what they were doing.
Our own regular boiler servicing company, an eight-man outfit, says it has considered getting its staff retrained, but at the moment it's an either/or proposition - you either fit boilers or heat pumps (with all the attendant issues around insulation, noise abatement, special rules for conservation areas etc), and the skills just don't correlate.
Mind you, there are some proper cowboys installing heat pumps. Think of it the other way round. Would you let a heat pump engineer fit your gas boiler?
BJ
Much simpler, the proposed levy is on manufacturers not installers. If they aren't meeting some future arbitrary target of heat pump sales versus gas boiler sales, it's proposed they pay swingeing levies.
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 1st, 2022, 7:03 pm
by richlist
I'd have thought air conditioner installers could install air to air heat pumps, which is exactly what some of us want. That's how it works in Spain but I'm guessing some of you are thinking more of air to water heat pump systems.
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 9:03 am
by AF62
BullDog wrote:Much simpler, the proposed levy is on manufacturers not installers. If they aren't meeting some future arbitrary target of heat pump sales versus gas boiler sales, it's proposed they pay swingeing levies.
How does that work for overseas manufacturers? Introduce a specific import duty on that company's products - in which case you will just get smuggled gas boilers ending up in the UK, and do you really want to encourage a market of smuggled goods which can go 'BANG!' being installed.
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 10:00 am
by AF62
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 10:07 am
by BullDog
AF62 wrote:BullDog wrote:Much simpler, the proposed levy is on manufacturers not installers. If they aren't meeting some future arbitrary target of heat pump sales versus gas boiler sales, it's proposed they pay swingeing levies.
How does that work for overseas manufacturers? Introduce a specific import duty on that company's products - in which case you will just get smuggled gas boilers ending up in the UK, and do you really want to encourage a market of smuggled goods which can go 'BANG!' being installed.
Good question. The UK brand distributor would be the target of the "incentive" to sell more heat pumps and fewer boilers. I guess.
To be clear, I am not advocating such a policy, merely musing over it's possible introduction. If a draconian ban on new gas boiler sales is going to be introduced as is already proposed. Then I fully intend to buy probably two new gas boilers and keep one to install and another for spare parts longer term.
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 10:18 am
by AF62
BullDog wrote:AF62 wrote:BullDog wrote:Much simpler, the proposed levy is on manufacturers not installers. If they aren't meeting some future arbitrary target of heat pump sales versus gas boiler sales, it's proposed they pay swingeing levies.
How does that work for overseas manufacturers? Introduce a specific import duty on that company's products - in which case you will just get smuggled gas boilers ending up in the UK, and do you really want to encourage a market of smuggled goods which can go 'BANG!' being installed.
Good question. The UK brand distributor would be the target of the "incentive" to sell more heat pumps and fewer boilers. I guess.
But if the levy was that penal the overseas manufacturer may not have a UK distributor because it isn't worth it. Their gas boilers might still end up legitimately in the UK with some people paying the levy on import, but probably like the toilets smuggled from Canada into America, there are many who will find a route around it.
BullDog wrote:To be clear, I am not advocating such a policy, merely musing over it's possible introduction. If a draconian ban on new gas boiler sales is going to be introduced as is already proposed.
Although by the date of the proposed introduction I have no doubt a better alternative to the pathetic heat pumps will have been found, such as hydrogen.
BullDog wrote:Then I fully intend to buy probably two new gas boilers and keep one to install and another for spare parts longer term.
I will avoid it by just leaving the UK in winter.
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 10:21 am
by pje16
AF62 wrote:I will avoid it by just leaving the UK in winter.
Good luck with that
what about the daily charges which form a lot of the bill, they tick up no matter where you are
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 10:25 am
by Dod101
AF62 wrote:BullDog wrote:AF62 wrote:BullDog wrote:Much simpler, the proposed levy is on manufacturers not installers. If they aren't meeting some future arbitrary target of heat pump sales versus gas boiler sales, it's proposed they pay swingeing levies.
How does that work for overseas manufacturers? Introduce a specific import duty on that company's products - in which case you will just get smuggled gas boilers ending up in the UK, and do you really want to encourage a market of smuggled goods which can go 'BANG!' being installed.
Good question. The UK brand distributor would be the target of the "incentive" to sell more heat pumps and fewer boilers. I guess.
But if the levy was that penal the overseas manufacturer may not have a UK distributor because it isn't worth it. Their gas boilers might still end up legitimately in the UK with some people paying the levy on import, but probably like the toilets smuggled from Canada into America, there are many who will find a route around it.
BullDog wrote:To be clear, I am not advocating such a policy, merely musing over it's possible introduction. If a draconian ban on new gas boiler sales is going to be introduced as is already proposed.
Although by the date of the proposed introduction I have no doubt a better alternative to the pathetic heat pumps will have been found, such as hydrogen.
BullDog wrote:Then I fully intend to buy probably two new gas boilers and keep one to install and another for spare parts longer term.
I will avoid it by just leaving the UK in winter.
If you drain off all the water in the house that might work but otherwise you are going to need some form of heating to guard against frost damage.
Dod
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 10:26 am
by Dod101
Dod101 wrote:AF62 wrote:BullDog wrote:AF62 wrote:BullDog wrote:Much simpler, the proposed levy is on manufacturers not installers. If they aren't meeting some future arbitrary target of heat pump sales versus gas boiler sales, it's proposed they pay swingeing levies.
How does that work for overseas manufacturers? Introduce a specific import duty on that company's products - in which case you will just get smuggled gas boilers ending up in the UK, and do you really want to encourage a market of smuggled goods which can go 'BANG!' being installed.
Good question. The UK brand distributor would be the target of the "incentive" to sell more heat pumps and fewer boilers. I guess.
But if the levy was that penal the overseas manufacturer may not have a UK distributor because it isn't worth it. Their gas boilers might still end up legitimately in the UK with some people paying the levy on import, but probably like the toilets smuggled from Canada into America, there are many who will find a route around it.
BullDog wrote:To be clear, I am not advocating such a policy, merely musing over it's possible introduction. If a draconian ban on new gas boiler sales is going to be introduced as is already proposed.
Although by the date of the proposed introduction I have no doubt a better alternative to the pathetic heat pumps will have been found, such as hydrogen.
BullDog wrote:Then I fully intend to buy probably two new gas boilers and keep one to install and another for spare parts longer term.
I will avoid it by just leaving the UK in winter.
If you drain off all the water in the house that might work but otherwise you are going to need some form of heating to guard against frost damage. A froststat might do it I guess.
Dod
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 10:41 am
by AF62
pje16 wrote:AF62 wrote:I will avoid it by just leaving the UK in winter.
Good luck with that
what about the daily charges which form a lot of the bill, they tick up no matter where you are
A 'lot' of the bill - no, some, but not a 'lot'.
Six months of electricity and gas standing charge even at the new rates will be less than £200, so compared to £1,800 of gas not used over winter and £350 electricity saved if the house is empty then that is a spit in the ocean.
And that £2,150 can be far better put to renting somewhere nice in the sun.
Dod101 wrote:If you drain off all the water in the house that might work but otherwise you are going to need some form of heating to guard against frost damage.
And that's what I have - minimal background heating in a well insulated house. Last winter I left the UK between the start of January and came back mid March with the Hive system left to just keep the house 'ticking over' and with the helpful stats it provides I could see the heating only kicked in occasionally to keep the house at the minimal safe temperature.
Plus I have house insurance that covers extended stays away if the worst comes to the worst.
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 1:42 pm
by richlist
As far back as the 1970s pensioners were over wintering in Spain quite regularly for exactly the same reason ....it's a lot cheaper.
I've a holiday home in Spain and likewise will probably spend some time out there this year. Note: even on the Costas they get very cold winters, below freezing occasionally is not unknown.
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 4:29 pm
by scrumpyjack
pje16 wrote:AF62 wrote:I will avoid it by just leaving the UK in winter.
Good luck with that
what about the daily charges which form a lot of the bill, they tick up no matter where you are
I'll stick with my Oil boiler, no daily charges. Might get a new one shortly before one can't to ensure it sees me out.
I can fill my 5,000 litre tanks when the price is reasonable.
Also I burn firewood from my own trees which I gather is ok being 'renewable'
I have planted a lot of trees to help my conscience and my car is electric
Whatever we do in this country isn't going to make any difference to climate change, whilst China and India carry on like there's no tomorrow (which there may not be!
)
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 4:45 pm
by Mike4
scrumpyjack wrote:I'll stick with my Oil boiler, no daily charges. Might get a new one shortly before one can't to ensure it sees me out.
This is extremely fuzzy. Lots of people have the impression gas and oil boilers are to be banned sooner or later but I've been keeping a weather eye out for solid information on this for a long time now and there seems to be little or none.
Does anyone have any dates or links to timelines published please? I ought to know given what I do for a living! Thanks.
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 4:47 pm
by AF62
richlist wrote:As far back as the 1970s pensioners were over wintering in Spain quite regularly for exactly the same reason ....it's a lot cheaper.
I've a holiday home in Spain and likewise will probably spend some time out there this year. Note: even on the Costas they get very cold winters, below freezing occasionally is not unknown.
As you mention, that can be an issue, particularly as many holiday rentals in Spain don’t have heating.
However I prefer to head further south down to Madeira or the Canaries where daytime winter temperatures are usually above 20c.
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 4:49 pm
by kiloran
scrumpyjack wrote:Also I burn firewood from my own trees which I gather is ok being 'renewable'
I have planted a lot of trees to help my conscience and my car is electric
Renewable maybe, but
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... data-shows--kiloran
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 4:49 pm
by BullDog
Mike4 wrote:scrumpyjack wrote:I'll stick with my Oil boiler, no daily charges. Might get a new one shortly before one can't to ensure it sees me out.
This is extremely fuzzy. Lots of people have the impression gas and oil boilers are to be banned sooner or later but I've been keeping a weather eye out for solid information on this for a long time now and there seems to be little or none.
Does anyone have any dates or links to timelines published please? I ought to know given what I do for a living! Thanks.
Good question. I gather that new build property cannot have a gas supply installed after 2025. That's been the case for ages. Timescale for banning replacement oil or gas boilers, I don't know for certain but I think it's still up for grabs.
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 5:01 pm
by Mike4
BullDog wrote:Mike4 wrote:scrumpyjack wrote:I'll stick with my Oil boiler, no daily charges. Might get a new one shortly before one can't to ensure it sees me out.
This is extremely fuzzy. Lots of people have the impression gas and oil boilers are to be banned sooner or later but I've been keeping a weather eye out for solid information on this for a long time now and there seems to be little or none.
Does anyone have any dates or links to timelines published please? I ought to know given what I do for a living! Thanks.
Good question. I gather that new build property cannot have a gas supply installed after 2025. That's been the case for ages. Timescale for banning replacement oil or gas boilers, I don't know for certain but I think it's still up for grabs.
Yes new builds are a thing apart. What I get asked about is when replacing
an existing gas or oil boiler is to be banned.
No-one seems to know. I google it once in a while and there is an impenetrable mass of waffle on the subject and I give up following what look like likely links.
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 5:07 pm
by BullDog
Mike4 wrote:BullDog wrote:Mike4 wrote:scrumpyjack wrote:I'll stick with my Oil boiler, no daily charges. Might get a new one shortly before one can't to ensure it sees me out.
This is extremely fuzzy. Lots of people have the impression gas and oil boilers are to be banned sooner or later but I've been keeping a weather eye out for solid information on this for a long time now and there seems to be little or none.
Does anyone have any dates or links to timelines published please? I ought to know given what I do for a living! Thanks.
Good question. I gather that new build property cannot have a gas supply installed after 2025. That's been the case for ages. Timescale for banning replacement oil or gas boilers, I don't know for certain but I think it's still up for grabs.
Yes new builds are a thing apart. What I get asked about is when replacing
an existing gas or oil boiler is to be banned.
No-one seems to know. I google it once in a while and there is an impenetrable mass of waffle on the subject and I give up following what look like likely links.
I suspect any policy decisions on replacement boilers is some way away. We're about to get a new administration. You can bet that the new minister responsible will want to scrap whatever previous work has been done on the matter.
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 5:10 pm
by BullDog
BullDog wrote:Mike4 wrote:BullDog wrote:Mike4 wrote:scrumpyjack wrote:I'll stick with my Oil boiler, no daily charges. Might get a new one shortly before one can't to ensure it sees me out.
This is extremely fuzzy. Lots of people have the impression gas and oil boilers are to be banned sooner or later but I've been keeping a weather eye out for solid information on this for a long time now and there seems to be little or none.
Does anyone have any dates or links to timelines published please? I ought to know given what I do for a living! Thanks.
Good question. I gather that new build property cannot have a gas supply installed after 2025. That's been the case for ages. Timescale for banning replacement oil or gas boilers, I don't know for certain but I think it's still up for grabs.
From -
https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source ... -2025.htmlYes new builds are a thing apart. What I get asked about is when replacing
an existing gas or oil boiler is to be banned.
No-one seems to know. I google it once in a while and there is an impenetrable mass of waffle on the subject and I give up following what look like likely links.
I suspect any policy decisions on replacement boilers is some way away. We're about to get a new administration. You can bet that the new minister responsible will want to scrap whatever previous work has been done on the matter.
British Gas says -
The main thing to know is that there is no ban in place (or planned!) on gas boilers in the homes we live in today.
From -
https://www.britishgas.co.uk/the-source ... -2025.html
Re: Energy costs. Oh dear.......
Posted: August 2nd, 2022, 5:32 pm
by Mike4
Thanks, but that answers a different question. Not one I get asked much but granted, some people do worry the Gas Police will come round one day and cap off their boiler!
The question that bothers people is "
When this boiler packs up, will I be allowed to replace it with a new gas boiler?"
