The Lemon Fool

AF62 wrote:

richlist wrote:Won't we all be turning the gas central heating off around April ? That should provide a respite until Autumn.

Depends whether

a. people accept the vastly increased monthly DD payments the suppliers will request and seriously cut back their spending now so they have built up some credit over summer to tide them over the winter when the heating comes back on, or

b. they refuse to 'lend them the supplier the money' because they don't have it now, so come the winter and the enormous bills come through they can't afford to pay and get cut off.

I suspect there will be a *lot* of b type customers.

Maybe a lot of these "b types" will be 80+ year old pensioners who can't afford the bills yet cannot be cutoff..guess where the money lost will be recouped from?

monabri wrote:We are now with B.Gas but the mother in law (92 years old) is with Octopus. We logged onto her account.

Current bill is £1654 per year.

New forecast based on her energy usage is £4524.

This is pre-Putin invasion cost.

I can see Riots erupting as people realise how much their bills will be.

I'm with Octopus, and at the end of my fixed price contract I'm switching to the Loyal Flexible Octopus tariff, which is slightly below the April price cap. This comes out at well below their current fixed price offering.

is this an option for your mother in law?

HTH,

Watis

Watis wrote:

monabri wrote:We are now with B.Gas but the mother in law (92 years old) is with Octopus. We logged onto her account.

Current bill is £1654 per year.

New forecast based on her energy usage is £4524.

This is pre-Putin invasion cost.

I can see Riots erupting as people realise how much their bills will be.

I'm with Octopus, and at the end of my fixed price contract I'm switching to the Loyal Flexible Octopus tariff, which is slightly below the April price cap. This comes out at well below their current fixed price offering.

is this an option for your mother in law?

HTH,

Watis

Her current tariff is " Flexible Octopus April 2019 v1" . The cheapest new tariff is "Loyal Octopus 10M Fixed".

Electricity
Daily standing charge 25.08p /day
Unit rate 42.44p /kWh
Early exit fee £0

Gas
Daily standing charge 26.10p /day
Unit rate 12.77p /kWh
Early exit fee £0

The gas unit rate was 3.82p per kWh...that's what's doing the damage!

monabri wrote:

Watis wrote:

monabri wrote:We are now with B.Gas but the mother in law (92 years old) is with Octopus. We logged onto her account.

Current bill is £1654 per year.

New forecast based on her energy usage is £4524.

This is pre-Putin invasion cost.

I can see Riots erupting as people realise how much their bills will be.

I'm with Octopus, and at the end of my fixed price contract I'm switching to the Loyal Flexible Octopus tariff, which is slightly below the April price cap. This comes out at well below their current fixed price offering.

is this an option for your mother in law?

HTH,

Watis

Her current tariff is " Flexible Octopus April 2019 v1" . The cheapest new tariff is "Loyal Octopus 10M Fixed".

Electricity
Daily standing charge 25.08p /day
Unit rate 42.44p /kWh
Early exit fee £0

Gas
Daily standing charge 26.10p /day
Unit rate 12.77p /kWh
Early exit fee £0

The gas unit rate was 3.82p per kWh...that's what's doing the damage!

Those figures look remarkably high compared with my provider, So Energy. Here are their default tariffs up to 31 March and from 1 April onwards. Most prices from 1 April look a bit over 7p/kWh for gas, and a bit under 30p for electricity, but the electricity standing charge is a lot higher than you quote for Octopus.

My fixed rate comes to an end in a few days [E 16.04/kWh, G 2.81/kWh, both plus standing charges), so I will be moving onto their default tariffs. I was also quoted what I considered a really high fixed price when I checked before the Russian invasion of Ukraine - I daren't look now !

mike wrote:Those figures look remarkably high compared with my provider, So Energy. Here are their default tariffs up to 31 March and from 1 April onwards. Most prices from 1 April look a bit over 7p/kWh for gas, and a bit under 30p for electricity, but the electricity standing charge is a lot higher than you quote for Octopus.

My fixed rate comes to an end in a few days [E 16.04/kWh, G 2.81/kWh, both plus standing charges), so I will be moving onto their default tariffs. I was also quoted what I considered a really high fixed price when I checked before the Russian invasion of Ukraine - I daren't look now !

Interesting...Octopus are quoting 12.77p per kWh for gas...a lot more than so.energy ( not heard of them!). I checked the rate several times.

The approx breakdown of the MiLs energy usage was £650 electric and £3874 gas. I wonder if Octopus have screwed up in their pricing if they are quoting 12.77p versus 7.xx p per kWh. I might contact them to check.

At 92, the heating is on a lot of the time and she consumes a lot of gas. A unit gas charge of " only" 7.xx p versus 12.77p would be a considerable reduction.

I'm also with Octopus and received an email this week telling me what my new capped charges would be from April. I'm currently on Flexible Octopus May 2021v1

From April:
Electric
S/charge 37.737p
Day rate 32.0985p
Night rate 20.7165p

Gas
S/charge 27.2160p
Unit rate 7.3395p

I suggest you get back onto them and ask for their standard capped rates from April.

richlist wrote:I'm also with Octopus and received an email this week telling me what my new capped charges would be from April. I'm currently on Flexible Octopus May 2021v1

From April:
Electric
S/charge 37.737p
Day rate 32.0985p
Night rate 20.7165p

Gas
S/charge 27.2160p
Unit rate 7.3395p

I suggest you get back onto them and ask for their standard capped rates from April.

Good to know! I mentioned it is the mother in laws house ( 6 miles away from mine) but my name is on the bill (so we can enter readings, pay bills) so I should be able to ring them and ask for the cheaper tariff.

Using the figures you supplied for your MIL and the April capped rates the calculation shows annual cost rise from £1650 to approx £2400......which is around 50%.

Also with Octopus via the now defunct AVRO.
Worth keeping an eye on social media for the occasional special offers which come out and are snapped up quickly. Several providers have done this over the last week or so. People often report them to Martin Lewis on his Twitter feed. I caught one last week. 3yr Fix. Elec24.86ppd 31.15kwh Gas 28.1ppd 7.25Kwh. 150 penalty for leaving. Its a bit of a punt on what the prices will do in October, but IMHO now we have a war winter 2023 energy caps will be higher. Previous predictions for the cap to fall back in Q3 2023 don't look very likely either. Apparently, there were only 10000 of these contracts available and people were reporting the deal as unavailable 30 mins after I signed up for it.

richlist wrote:Using the figures you supplied for your MIL and the April capped rates the calculation shows annual cost rise from £1650 to approx £2400......which is around 50%.

I estimated costs based on electric & gas usage over a period of 384 days and then pro-rated the costs to 365 days.

[1] Current Deal (for reference)



[2] Using Octopus' nasty rates :

When I plug in the usage figures, I obtain an estimate not too far removed from the (extortionate) £4524 quote




[2] Using "richlist" numbers for his Octopus rates



A useful saving of £1245.

I see you have based your figures on a single electric day rate. I'm on a dual rate because it suits my installation/ usage. This normally has the effect of providing me with a much cheaper night unit rate but the downside is I pay a little more for my day units.

You are likely to find that if you are on a single rate then your unit rate will be less than my 32.0985p per unit......so your projection should be lower and provide bigger savings.

richlist wrote:I see you have based your figures on a single electric day rate. I'm on a dual rate because it suits my installation/ usage. This normally has the effect of providing me with a much cheaper night unit rate but the downside is I pay a little more for my day units.

You are likely to find that if you are on a single rate then your unit rate will be less than my 32.0985p per unit......so your projection should be lower and provide bigger savings.

I agree with what you are saying regarding dual rates. I'm giving my MiL's figures for her house. We are "all electric" at our house and use Economy 7 and I agree that the energy companies charge more for day time units than folk who are on a flat rate.

However !

I noticed that in the calcs above , I had used the wrong rates in "[2] Using Octopus' nasty rates :" . I should have used a unit charge of 40.89p ( - see below) per unit of electric and not 20.02p.

[2] Using Octopus' nasty rates (UPDATED) :



I have emailed Octopus because the rates in their tables are significantly at odds with your values and their normal electric charge at 40.89p is waaay above my Economy 7 day unit charge of 30.519p per kWh (day rate).

Ok, I believe that the Octopus web site figures I have been scared by are erroneous. I've compared the rates with other Lemon's figures.

I've highlighted the duff Octopus rates. It looks to me like they've transposed the Electric standing and unit charges! The gas unit charge at 12.31p is well above the Ofgem cap price although the standing charge is ok (Midlands).

"wholesale" gas prices are soaring.
https://www.catalyst-commercial.co.uk/w ... as-prices/

Apparently the new 1st April, capped, variable rate tariffs for all energy companies were published today.

Well, I've had a good search on the internet but they must be top secret. Has anyone been able to track this information down. It should be available, after all it does affect every household in the country.

Thanks in advance.

scotview wrote:Apparently the new 1st April, capped, variable rate tariffs for all energy companies were published today.

Well, I've had a good search on the internet but they must be top secret. Has anyone been able to track this information down. It should be available, after all it does affect every household in the country.

Thanks in advance.

Are you looking for the rates for a particular supplier? Each has slightly different interpretations (marginal differences in standing charge and unit rates are permitted) and strangely, rates differ by area, so digging into individual suppliers' websites is probably the only way to get absolute data rather than generalisations.

I was moved to EDF when Utility Point went under and they published the rates applicable from April a while back.

staffordian wrote:I was moved to EDF when Utility Point went under and they published the rates applicable from April a while back.

Same here
I'm with Shell, who emailed me on 23 Feb about the April rates
Electricity Daily 37.92 and Usage 29.239
Gas Daily 27.22 and Usage 7.344

pje16 wrote:

staffordian wrote:I was moved to EDF when Utility Point went under and they published the rates applicable from April a while back.

Same here
I'm with Shell, who emailed me on 23 Feb about the April rates
Electricity Daily 37.92 and Usage 29.239
Gas Daily 27.22 and Usage 7.344

Are those rates exclusive of 5% VAT?

My capped rates inc. VAT from April are

Elec daily 48.13 and usage 27.86

Gas 27.22 and 7.367

This is in the West Midlands

Edit. Looking more closely, I guess yours are inclusive of VAT. I was just considering the low electricity standing charge. But I suspect your tariff simply proves my point that companies have some scope to tweak the cap, by lowering the standing charge and raising the usage rate.

just checked - they are inc VAT
I am in NW London, not sure how much that affects the tariff

staffordian wrote:

pje16 wrote:Same here
I'm with Shell, who emailed me on 23 Feb about the April rates
Electricity Daily 37.92 and Usage 29.239
Gas Daily 27.22 and Usage 7.344

Are those rates exclusive of 5% VAT?

My capped rates inc. VAT from April are

Elec daily 48.13 and usage 27.86

Gas 27.22 and 7.367

This is in the West Midlands

Edit. Looking more closely, I guess yours are inclusive of VAT. I was just considering the low electricity standing charge. But I suspect your tariff simply proves my point that companies have some scope to tweak the cap, by lowering the standing charge and raising the usage rate.

But the cap is literally a cap on those usage rates etc. For example, the average capped rate for electricity is 28p per kWh. "Regional variations" are allowed, but I'm surprised it would be allowed to go as high as pje16's 29.239p per kWh.

Are we sure that's a capped rate tariff?

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-co ... ffects-you

Scott.