Energy Saving

[Mike4]

We had a small under the counter freezer which was really a supplement to the upright fridge/freezer. I calculated that the running cost of this small freezer at 189 kW/h per year (manufacturers data) at 28p per kWh would be £53.

Pedant alert.

You can't measure energy in kW/h. The unit is kWh, i.e. kW multiplied by hours. Not kW divided by hours.

kW/h would be a rate of change of power, something one rarely needs to measure.

Glad thats sorted out now, I bet you are!

I wasn't even consistent within the sentence! I meant 189kWh per year at 28p per kWh.

Yes! No, Eh?

Oh yeah.... !

Don't get me started on A/h where battery capacity is concerned....

[swill453]

I was planning to turn off the freezer if energy prices went through to roof, but it is no longer worthwhile. I am only using it for storing frozen berries, but fresh ones would cost much more. My AEG built in fridge costs about 80p per week, and my AEG built in freezer costs about £1.26 per week at the new rates, according to AEG's numbers.

Freezers and fridges work more efficiently when they are not cooling air, i.e., when they are full. If you only have a few frozen berries there, you should try and fill it up, even if it is just with empty plastic bottles filled with water. Once frozen, they will help keep the freezer at -16 or whatever setting you have. Otherwise, every time you open the door, you're letting out cold air that fills with warm air that needs re-cooling. The less space for air in there, the less this is necessary.

But consider that the amount of energy to cool a cubic metre of air is quite small. But the initial amount of energy to cool a load of water-filled bottles is quite considerable in comparison. Whether that is beneficial is not clear, depends how often you open the freezer door
doolally

Empty plastic bottles would be better. They still reduce the amount of cold air that falls out when the door's opened, but without the initial hit.

Scott.

[GeoffF100]

My washing machine is a Bosch Maxx 6 built in WAB24161GB. I have not been able to find the energy consumption for individual cycles. The cycles on my old machine have longer durations. It takes forever and beeps loudly and persistently when the cycle ends. Very annoying, and there is no option to disable that.

Have you had a look on YouTube regarding deactivation of alarms/ beeps. For example ( not your model but it might be similar on your Bosch. It's not intuitive! ).

https://youtu.be/fkJ4VU6ldLk

Energy consumptions listed in the manual.

https://manuall.co.uk/bosch-wab24161gb-washing-machine/

Thanks for that. I have a black and white copy of the manual, but did not see the power consumption table. The relevant cycles for me are:

Easy-Care 40 degrees C 0.70 kWh

Cottons 60 degrees C is 1.60 kWh, which I assume is without the pre-wash

I do not often wash cottons, so the Easy-Care cycle is the one that matters most. At a cost of 33.08p per unit (in Yorkshire) an Easy-Care cycle costs 23p and a cotton cycle costs 53p (or perhaps a little more with a pre-wash). That is surprisingly cheap.

At the old rates, my electricity cost for September was £6.74, and my gas cost was £5.06, which was mostly heating water for showers. I could have saved money by heating water in a saucepan and washing with a flannel. That would not save money in the winter, because the waste heat would heat the house. (With the clear sky last night, the heating came on for the first time to my knowledge, when the temperature at the downstairs thermostat fell below 17 degrees C.)

This is serious cost saving, even for Yorkshire!

The machine in the video is more expensive one than mine. Mine was the cheapest Bosch, and is not as fancy as that. Mine went out of production in 2012, so it has had a good life already. Pity about the beeping.

[GeoffF100]

This just occurred to me.....

I have turned the thermostat down to 17 degrees C. It will warm up 19 degree C upstairs when the heating comes on

You can set your thermostat to a temperature you want the house at, and when it goes colder the heating comes on, and goes off again when it reaches the correct temperature? It doesn't need turning to 35 to get the house warm quicker, and then down to 12 again when the house is warm enough?

I am not sure what your point is. My house is open plan. Hot air rises. The thermostat is downstairs. When the temperature is above 17 degrees for long time, the house is at a fairly uniform temperature. When the temperature drops to 17 degrees the heating turns on. The heating turns off when the temperature downstairs gets to 18 degrees. Hot air rises and the upstairs heats up to 19 degrees.

The boiler condenser works more efficiently when the water temperature is turned down, and there is less temperature overshoot in the house. I have got it turned down. The upstairs is at a fairly uniform temperature upstairs when it is really cold outside, but can get rather chilly in the present conditions. The whole house can go down to just above 17 degrees and stay there.

[gryffron]

Empty plastic bottles would be better. They still reduce the amount of cold air that falls out when the door's opened, but without the initial hit.

Filling it with bread/cakes is the other usual choice. Actually useful. Also contain a lot of air relative to mass.

But it depends on your usage. If you’re going to defrost regularly the full bottles of water will probably stay frozen whilst you’re doing that.

But I think we all agree empty is the absolute worst!

Gryff

[Gersemi]

This just occurred to me.....

I have turned the thermostat down to 17 degrees C. It will warm up 19 degree C upstairs when the heating comes on

You can set your thermostat to a temperature you want the house at, and when it goes colder the heating comes on, and goes off again when it reaches the correct temperature? It doesn't need turning to 35 to get the house warm quicker, and then down to 12 again when the house is warm enough?

I am not sure what your point is.

I suspect that Paul knows how his thermostat works, but someone in his household doesn't believe it.

[GeoffF100]

But I think we all agree empty is the absolute worst!

What are the numbers? I will work to 2 significant figures. The freezer drawer is 40cm x 40cm x 15cm. A volume of 0.024 cubic metres.

https://material-properties.org/air-den ... ductivity/

Density of air = 1.23 kg per cubic metre. We have 0.27 kg of air.

https://www.beko.co.uk/support/faqs/fre ... -a-freezer

Freezer temperature -20 degrees C say.

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air- ... d_705.html

Thermal capacity 0.00028 kWh per Kg and degree C.

Assuming a temperature rise of 37 degrees C, we need 0.0028 kWh to heat the air. How much cold air escapes? How efficient is the freezer at cooling the warm air that replaces it back down again? The precise numbers do not matter much. If I open a drawer a day for a few seconds, the cost is going to be negligible.

[GeoffF100]

I have done a cost comparison:

Asda frozen summer fruits £2.20 for 500g.
Freezer £1.26 per week.

Asda Everyday Essentials blueberries £0.89 for 125g, i.e. £3.56 for 500g.

If I eat 500g in a week the freezer option comes out at £3.46. A marginal win for the freezer. If I take longer than a week to eat 500g, fresh wins. Fresh is better, and 500g should last me more than a week. (I shop every couple of days on foot.)

[UncleEbenezer]

I have done a cost comparison:

Asda frozen summer fruits £2.20 for 500g.
Freezer £1.26 per week.

Asda Everyday Essentials blueberries £0.89 for 125g, i.e. £3.56 for 500g.

If I eat 500g in a week the freezer option comes out at £3.46. A marginal win for the freezer. If I take longer than a week to eat 500g, fresh wins. Fresh is better, and 500g should last me more than a week. (I shop every couple of days on foot.)

Speak for yourself.

My freezer holds a range of different things. If I were to put some Asda frozen fruit in there[1], it would be sharing the (alleged) £1.26 with other things.

[1] But why would I freeze fruit, unless cooked? Especially over timescales like a week, which is within the shelf-life of most fruit in a larder or fridge?

[Dod101]

To return to the topic, energy saving. I had occasion to get up in the middle of last night and padded around in the more or less darkness. I was amazed to see the number of lights on, not to read by but on standby. In my kitchen there are two cookers, with clocks, the dishwasher, a Bose CD player and of course the fridge/freezer. In my study it is like a spaceship, the router, monitor and desktop PC itself, a BT telephone system and various extension cords each of which seems to have a monitor light. In the sittingroom the TV was on stand by (I usually switch it off at the wall)

Then the utility room was like the cockpit of another space ship, although the alarm system only has a tiny light, but has another fridge/freezer and various wall switches each with a standby light for some reason.

I have no idea how much electricity all of these things (and there are probably more) use but it must add up and I am resolved to see if I can switch off some of them.

Dod

[Dod101]

I have done a cost comparison:

Asda frozen summer fruits £2.20 for 500g.
Freezer £1.26 per week.

Asda Everyday Essentials blueberries £0.89 for 125g, i.e. £3.56 for 500g.

If I eat 500g in a week the freezer option comes out at £3.46. A marginal win for the freezer. If I take longer than a week to eat 500g, fresh wins. Fresh is better, and 500g should last me more than a week. (I shop every couple of days on foot.)

Sorry to state the obvious, but if you shop every couple of days on foot, why do you need a freezer in the first place?

Dod

[GeoffF100]

Sorry to state the obvious, but if you shop every couple of days on foot, why do you need a freezer in the first place?

I used to use frozen vegetables because they were cheap and had very little preparation time. More recently, I have been using fresh, and found that the freezer was just being used for frozen fruit. The analysis above suggests that it is not worth running the freezer just for that. That analysis does not take into account the cost of replacing the freezer when it eventually breaks down.

[Dod101]

Sorry to state the obvious, but if you shop every couple of days on foot, why do you need a freezer in the first place?

I used to use frozen vegetables because they were cheap and had very little preparation time. More recently, I have been using fresh, and found that the freezer was just being used for frozen fruit. The analysis above suggests that it is not worth running the freezer just for that. That analysis does not take into account the cost of replacing the freezer when it eventually breaks down.

Well then when it breaks down just do not replace it. I gave up on a tumble dryer when it broke down and do not miss it.

Dod

[daveh]

Sorry to state the obvious, but if you shop every couple of days on foot, why do you need a freezer in the first place?

I used to use frozen vegetables because they were cheap and had very little preparation time. More recently, I have been using fresh, and found that the freezer was just being used for frozen fruit. The analysis above suggests that it is not worth running the freezer just for that. That analysis does not take into account the cost of replacing the freezer when it eventually breaks down.

Well then when it breaks down just do not replace it. I gave up on a tumble dryer when it broke down and do not miss it.

Dod

That might be a long time. I bought my freezer some 25 years ago. An early eco model chest freezer, so it has pretty good insulation, probably on par with a modern one. Still going strong.

[AF62]

I have no idea how much electricity all of these things (and there are probably more) use but it must add up

If you had a smart meter you would be able to see the usage at that moment in time - it is quite useful to be able to see what your home is using when nothing is turned on.

[daveh]

I have no idea how much electricity all of these things (and there are probably more) use but it must add up

If you had a smart meter you would be able to see the usage at that moment in time - it is quite useful to be able to see what your home is using when nothing is turned on.

Mine runs at 44watts generally. So that's all the background things I can't/don't turn off - router, laptop on docking station, landline phone, tv and sky box on standby, microwave and oven displays and possibly bedside radio/C's player. It turns itself off, but must be taking some power as I turn it on with a remote so a sensor must be powered.

[Mike4]

To return to the topic, energy saving. I had occasion to get up in the middle of last night and padded around in the more or less darkness. I was amazed to see the number of lights on, not to read by but on standby. In my kitchen there are two cookers, with clocks, the dishwasher, a Bose CD player and of course the fridge/freezer. In my study it is like a spaceship, the router, monitor and desktop PC itself, a BT telephone system and various extension cords each of which seems to have a monitor light. In the sittingroom the TV was on stand by (I usually switch it off at the wall)

Then the utility room was like the cockpit of another space ship, although the alarm system only has a tiny light, but has another fridge/freezer and various wall switches each with a standby light for some reason.

I have no idea how much electricity all of these things (and there are probably more) use but it must add up and I am resolved to see if I can switch off some of them.

Dod

The term I use for this is "vampire consumption". All the little lights and chargers we have plugged in all the time, routers, clocks, computers in 'sleep' mode, all sucking way ever so slightly on the grid. Each of them consuming negligible power, but we have so many of them.

As it happens I did a check on my vampire consumption the other day. I made sure all the household lights, radios, fridge, boiler etc were off or not running and watched the leccy meter. The flashing red LED on one's meter tells one one's power consumption at that point in time (if you didn't know already). One flash means 1 WattHour of energy consumed. Mine was flashing once every 65 seconds with everything off except my vampire consumers. Have a look at yours!

Lets call it one flash every 60 seconds for convenience. This is 60 Wh per hour. 1.44kWhr per day. I'm paying 35p per kWh for my leccy so my vampire power consumption is broadly the same as paying a second standing charge. My standing charge for leccy is 49p per day.

[GeoffF100]

If you had a smart meter you would be able to see the usage at that moment in time - it is quite useful to be able to see what your home is using when nothing is turned on.

Mine runs at 44watts generally. So that's all the background things I can't/don't turn off - router, laptop on docking station, landline phone, tv and sky box on standby, microwave and oven displays and possibly bedside radio/C's player. It turns itself off, but must be taking some power as I turn it on with a remote so a sensor must be powered.

At the current price of about 27p per kWh, that works out at £4.28 per month. That is nearly as much as I paid for my total electricity consumption last month (including fridge, freezer, washing machine, router, desktop computer and charging my mobile phone). You have alerted me to the fact that my cooker has an illuminated time display. I have turned of the electricity supply to the cooker. The igniter button still works. My microwave is of the type with mechanical switches. (My mother blew up her kitchen with an electronic one!) I no longer use the microwave, so I have unplugged it to be sure.

[funduffer]

We have a large bay window in the living room, and I suspect we lose a lot of heat through this at night. I have recently put up a pair of thermal pleated blinds just behind the curtains covering this bay window. I put a thermometer in the room and another one in the window bay behind the blind last evening when I pulled down the blind. The room temperature was 19.5C at this point.

We had a fairly cold night, with temperature down to 7C or so. This morning, In the room the temperature had only dropped from 19.5C to 18C just preventing the heating switching on. Behind the blind in the window bay it was 13C!

I think I am surprised how effective the combination of blind plus curtain is.

Maybe something to think about as the cold winter nights approach.

FD

[Dod101]

To return to the topic, energy saving. I had occasion to get up in the middle of last night and padded around in the more or less darkness. I was amazed to see the number of lights on, not to read by but on standby. In my kitchen there are two cookers, with clocks, the dishwasher, a Bose CD player and of course the fridge/freezer. In my study it is like a spaceship, the router, monitor and desktop PC itself, a BT telephone system and various extension cords each of which seems to have a monitor light. In the sittingroom the TV was on stand by (I usually switch it off at the wall)

Then the utility room was like the cockpit of another space ship, although the alarm system only has a tiny light, but has another fridge/freezer and various wall switches each with a standby light for some reason.

I have no idea how much electricity all of these things (and there are probably more) use but it must add up and I am resolved to see if I can switch off some of them.

Dod

The term I use for this is "vampire consumption". All the little lights and chargers we have plugged in all the time, routers, clocks, computers in 'sleep' mode, all sucking way ever so slightly on the grid. Each of them consuming negligible power, but we have so many of them.

As it happens I did a check on my vampire consumption the other day. I made sure all the household lights, radios, fridge, boiler etc were off or not running and watched the leccy meter. The flashing red LED on one's meter tells one one's power consumption at that point in time (if you didn't know already). One flash means 1 WattHour of energy consumed. Mine was flashing once every 65 seconds with everything off except my vampire consumers. Have a look at yours!

Lets call it one flash every 60 seconds for convenience. This is 60 Wh per hour. 1.44kWhr per day. I'm paying 35p per kWh for my leccy so my vampire power consumption is broadly the same as paying a second standing charge. My standing charge for leccy is 49p per day.

I have a smart meter but my display does not/will not work and I cannot get through to the supplier. The flashes you mention are interesting. I notice these on my meter but they did not mean anything to me. Now I know. Must take an educated look. Thanks.

Dod