The Lemon Fool

Tedx wrote:My current fixed deal is


Day: 24.078p

Night: 11.866p

SC 16.44p

Their variable rate which I will move to soon is

Standing charge 51.16p (51.16p from 1st Jan 2023)
Primary unit rate 44.269p (47.33p from 1st Jan 2023)
Night unit rate 11.457p (12.38p from 1st Jan 2023)

Around three quarters of my electricity is consumed at the night rate.

I adjusted my DD + £66 when the rebates began, so I'm actually better off for the time being.

Plugging your 1st Jan 2023 figures [51.16p SC 47.33p Day, 12.38p Night] into my spreadsheet would result in a small saving of ~£40 on my current energy bill prediction.

Just to say, the effect of the reduction in government support will be extremely serious for a lot of people.

At the moment the "cap" of £2500 is reduced by the £400 additional payment everyone gets.

From April, the "cap" goes to £3000 and the £400 is very likely to be means tested.

PetraM

EDF Southeast Region from Jan 2023: 42.77 s/c, 54.97 day, 6.79 night. So the day rate will be EIGHT TIMES the night rate. As we use storage radiators with a 9 hour night window, the last number is a relief, but I must turn things off by 7.30am

6p/unit is a bargain. Crank up the storage heaters to max, because it sounds to me that's what they want you to do. You can always open a window. Avoid using daytime heating at all costs.

If they weren't so damn expensive, a battery storage solution would mean you could practically run your house at 6p/unit.

JohnB wrote:EDF Southeast Region from Jan 2023: 42.77 s/c, 54.97 day, 6.79 night. So the day rate will be EIGHT TIMES the night rate. As we use storage radiators with a 9 hour night window, the last number is a relief, but I must turn things off by 7.30am

That's a massive difference in day and night rates!

JohnB wrote:EDF Southeast Region from Jan 2023: 42.77 s/c, 54.97 day, 6.79 night. So the day rate will be EIGHT TIMES the night rate. As we use storage radiators with a 9 hour night window, the last number is a relief, but I must turn things off by 7.30am

Is it something you can fit a timer switch to, as a lie in could be expensive

JohnB wrote:EDF Southeast Region from Jan 2023: 42.77 s/c, 54.97 day, 6.79 night. So the day rate will be EIGHT TIMES the night rate. As we use storage radiators with a 9 hour night window, the last number is a relief, but I must turn things off by 7.30am

At less than 7p a unit, it's probably worth buying an electric car just to take advantage of the cheap juice

I checked out EDF and for me, they're offering:

Day rate: 45.98p per kWh
Night rate: 14.20p per kWh
Standing charge
51.16 p per day

The day rate is about the same as my current provider, my post 31/12/22 night rate will be 12.3p. Standing charge is almost identical.

staffordian wrote:

JohnB wrote:EDF Southeast Region from Jan 2023: 42.77 s/c, 54.97 day, 6.79 night. So the day rate will be EIGHT TIMES the night rate. As we use storage radiators with a 9 hour night window, the last number is a relief, but I must turn things off by 7.30am

At less than 7p a unit, it's probably worth buying an electric car just to take advantage of the cheap juice

I have an EV tariff with Octopus: 38p during the day, 7.5p at night (but just for 4 hours).

I have now managed to get over half my usage, including charging the car, into that 4 hour window..

Of course, if I had electric storage heating, 4 hours wouldn't be enough, and I would want a longer nighttime period like JohnB's.

Just to comment on why the difference is EIGHT times in JohnB's case. Octopus explained to me that to qualify for the £400 from the government, then cheap overnight tariffs have to offer a weighted average tariff at least equal to the cap rate. So 9 hours @ 6.79p and 15 hours @ 54.97p gives a weighted average of 36.9p which is about the cap rate (varies a bit regionally).

So if the overnight rate was for less than 9 hours, the rate difference would be less than EIGHT times.

FD

I'm also on the Octopus BEV tariff with 4 hours off peak electricity. I have time shifted all white goods use into the four hour off peak tariff.

Just had my December energy bill from Octopus and it's almost exactly £300 for the month. That's gas and electric. Considering we really had just one very cold week in the month, that's a lot of money. If we had a 1963 style winter, that would be horrendous.

No wonder families with one modest salary or depending on benefits are struggling.

Tedx wrote:6p/unit is a bargain. Crank up the storage heaters to max, because it sounds to me that's what they want you to do. You can always open a window. Avoid using daytime heating at all costs.

If they weren't so damn expensive, a battery storage solution would mean you could practically run your house at 6p/unit.

10kWh battery backups that can be charged from wind/solar, or incoming mains are retailing from under £6k - allegedly plug and play.

At a saving of roughly 25p/kWh over the capped rate that's a couple of quid a day saved, so still not quite financially viable to time shift all your use.

Of course if you already have an electric car and could use the batteries in that somehow....

Paul

I'll look again at domestic battery packs. Thanks.

£6K for a 10kWh battery..

Where from and with what, if any warranty?

I am conscious that by the time it makes sense for a home user to do electricity arbitrage, it would make more sense for the energy company to do it on a grand scale. And once everyone does it, the day/night price difference will disappear anyway. If you have solar panels and effectively control the input cost, or need a car anyway, then home batteries make sense, otherwise you could find your payback times just extend indefinitely.

DrFfybes wrote:

Tedx wrote:6p/unit is a bargain. Crank up the storage heaters to max, because it sounds to me that's what they want you to do. You can always open a window. Avoid using daytime heating at all costs.

If they weren't so damn expensive, a battery storage solution would mean you could practically run your house at 6p/unit.

10kWh battery backups that can be charged from wind/solar, or incoming mains are retailing from under £6k - allegedly plug and play.

At a saving of roughly 25p/kWh over the capped rate that's a couple of quid a day saved, so still not quite financially viable to time shift all your use.

Of course if you already have an electric car and could use the batteries in that somehow....

Paul

Don't over estimate how much solar energy would be available to charge a storage battery in the 4 winter months (October-February inclusive). We have pv solar panels and after running the house during a winter's day.....tv, lights, lunch, boiling kettle etc and heating the domestic hot water most days there wouldn't be much left to charge a battery........this isn't California or even Spain.

PetraM wrote:£6K for a 10kWh battery..

Where from and with what, if any warranty?

https://voltaconsolar.com/all-in-one-en ... 0watt.html

I din't read all the details so doubtless there are a few extras to be added on, so I added 10% to the list price.

Paul

richlist wrote:

DrFfybes wrote:
10kWh battery backups that can be charged from wind/solar, or incoming mains are retailing from under £6k - allegedly plug and play.

At a saving of roughly 25p/kWh over the capped rate that's a couple of quid a day saved, so still not quite financially viable to time shift all your use.

Of course if you already have an electric car and could use the batteries in that somehow....

Paul

Don't over estimate how much solar energy would be available to charge a storage battery in the 4 winter months (October-February inclusive).

I was basing it on overnight charging at 6p/unit from the incoming supplly - with a supply at that price installing solar panel make no sense.

Oh, and that's five months

Paul

DrFfybes wrote:

richlist wrote:

DrFfybes wrote:
10kWh battery backups that can be charged from wind/solar, or incoming mains are retailing from under £6k - allegedly plug and play.

At a saving of roughly 25p/kWh over the capped rate that's a couple of quid a day saved, so still not quite financially viable to time shift all your use.

Of course if you already have an electric car and could use the batteries in that somehow....

Paul

Don't over estimate how much solar energy would be available to charge a storage battery in the 4 winter months (October-February inclusive).

I was basing it on overnight charging at 6p/unit from the incoming supplly - with a supply at that price installing solar panel make no sense.

Oh, and that's five months

Paul

Indeed. In fact I read elsewhere on this site that eventually 'big' renewables may effectively make domestic renewable installations uneconomic.

From The Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -war-level

So, when can we expect gas and electricity prices for consumers to fall back to 'normal' levels?

Watis

Watis wrote:
So, when can we expect gas and electricity prices for consumers to fall back to 'normal' levels?

Watis

Only when the greedy big 6 decide to