Energy Saving

[Mike4]

To return to the topic, energy saving. I had occasion to get up in the middle of last night and padded around in the more or less darkness. I was amazed to see the number of lights on, not to read by but on standby. In my kitchen there are two cookers, with clocks, the dishwasher, a Bose CD player and of course the fridge/freezer. In my study it is like a spaceship, the router, monitor and desktop PC itself, a BT telephone system and various extension cords each of which seems to have a monitor light. In the sittingroom the TV was on stand by (I usually switch it off at the wall)

Then the utility room was like the cockpit of another space ship, although the alarm system only has a tiny light, but has another fridge/freezer and various wall switches each with a standby light for some reason.

I have no idea how much electricity all of these things (and there are probably more) use but it must add up and I am resolved to see if I can switch off some of them.

Dod

The term I use for this is "vampire consumption". All the little lights and chargers we have plugged in all the time, routers, clocks, computers in 'sleep' mode, all sucking way ever so slightly on the grid. Each of them consuming negligible power, but we have so many of them.

As it happens I did a check on my vampire consumption the other day. I made sure all the household lights, radios, fridge, boiler etc were off or not running and watched the leccy meter. The flashing red LED on one's meter tells one one's power consumption at that point in time (if you didn't know already). One flash means 1 WattHour of energy consumed. Mine was flashing once every 65 seconds with everything off except my vampire consumers. Have a look at yours!

Lets call it one flash every 60 seconds for convenience. This is 60 Wh per hour. 1.44kWhr per day. I'm paying 35p per kWh for my leccy so my vampire power consumption is broadly the same as paying a second standing charge. My standing charge for leccy is 49p per day.

I have a smart meter but my display does not/will not work and I cannot get through to the supplier. The flashes you mention are interesting. I notice these on my meter but they did not mean anything to me. Now I know. Must take an educated look. Thanks.

Dod

You're welcome. Do post your findings and impressions as and when they arise!

I seem to be the only person in the world who figured out what these flashes mean, and they are really useful. I'm intrigued to find out how my results compare to yours, and anyone else's.

[servodude]

To return to the topic, energy saving. I had occasion to get up in the middle of last night and padded around in the more or less darkness. I was amazed to see the number of lights on, not to read by but on standby. In my kitchen there are two cookers, with clocks, the dishwasher, a Bose CD player and of course the fridge/freezer. In my study it is like a spaceship, the router, monitor and desktop PC itself, a BT telephone system and various extension cords each of which seems to have a monitor light. In the sittingroom the TV was on stand by (I usually switch it off at the wall)

Then the utility room was like the cockpit of another space ship, although the alarm system only has a tiny light, but has another fridge/freezer and various wall switches each with a standby light for some reason.

I have no idea how much electricity all of these things (and there are probably more) use but it must add up and I am resolved to see if I can switch off some of them.

Dod

The term I use for this is "vampire consumption". All the little lights and chargers we have plugged in all the time, routers, clocks, computers in 'sleep' mode, all sucking way ever so slightly on the grid. Each of them consuming negligible power, but we have so many of them.

As it happens I did a check on my vampire consumption the other day. I made sure all the household lights, radios, fridge, boiler etc were off or not running and watched the leccy meter. The flashing red LED on one's meter tells one one's power consumption at that point in time (if you didn't know already). One flash means 1 WattHour of energy consumed. Mine was flashing once every 65 seconds with everything off except my vampire consumers. Have a look at yours!

Lets call it one flash every 60 seconds for convenience. This is 60 Wh per hour. 1.44kWhr per day. I'm paying 35p per kWh for my leccy so my vampire power consumption is broadly the same as paying a second standing charge. My standing charge for leccy is 49p per day.

I have a smart meter but my display does not/will not work and I cannot get through to the supplier. The flashes you mention are interesting. I notice these on my meter but they did not mean anything to me. Now I know. Must take an educated look. Thanks.

Dod

You're welcome. Do post your findings and impressions as and when they arise!

I seem to be the only person in the world who figured out what these flashes mean, and they are really useful. I'm intrigued to find out how my results compare to yours, and anyone else's.

It's a setting or feature in the meter as to what that LED indicates

What you've described is a 1000 imp/kWh setting (or 1 impulse per Watt-hour); there's often a sticker that tells you how the LED is configured (or else you can check in the meter datasheet)

it does sound like what you've got is exactly what you have worked out

[Dod101]

I have just looked at my meter whilst my electricity usage is simply standby items, I have a series of green lights (about five) which flash in sequence at some sort of interval but not very long between each flash. Sadly they tell me nothing. My little dial thing which tells me the costs has not worked for ages and the message is (Not Paired) I cannot get it to Pair and my supplier is not much help, even when I can get through to them.

Dod

[servodude]

I have just looked at my meter whilst my electricity usage is simply standby items, I have a series of green lights (about five) which flash in sequence at some sort of interval but not very long between each flash. Sadly they tell me nothing. My little dial thing which tells me the costs has not worked for ages and the message is (Not Paired) I cannot get it to Pair and my supplier is not much help, even when I can get through to them.

Dod

Those sound like indicator lights for communications (the ostensibly smart bit of a smart meter)

There will probably be a wee window somewhere that has an LED such as the one Mike mentioned.
If it's something like the veritable Elster/Honeywell AS series it will normally be to the right with the rate (in pulses per kWh) written next to it

[Dod101]

I have just looked at my meter whilst my electricity usage is simply standby items, I have a series of green lights (about five) which flash in sequence at some sort of interval but not very long between each flash. Sadly they tell me nothing. My little dial thing which tells me the costs has not worked for ages and the message is (Not Paired) I cannot get it to Pair and my supplier is not much help, even when I can get through to them.

Dod

Those sound like indicator lights for communications (the ostensibly smart bit of a smart meter)

There will probably be a wee window somewhere that has an LED such as the one Mike mentioned.
If it's something like the veritable Elster/Honeywell AS series it will normally be to the right with the rate (in pulses per kWh) written next to it

That would make sense, because my smart meter is certainly in communication with my supplier as I get accurate bills without anyone directly reading anything. I will take another look.

Dod

[AF62]

That would make sense, because my smart meter is certainly in communication with my supplier as I get accurate bills without anyone directly reading anything. I will take another look.

As you have a smart meter, does your supplier not provide the facility to look at or download the data in the 1/2 hour meter readings they receive?

Looking at that over a period of time gives you a better idea as it includes the fridge freezer intermittently kicking in.

For example, looking at the data from my supplier (Octopus) I can see that between 02:30 yesterday morning and 07:30 (five hours) whilst the house and everyone was asleep, my house used 0.627kWh of electricity.

Extrapolating that up over the course of the day that is a background use of a fraction over 3kWh (or alternatively a background draw of 0.125kW), so at the new capped rate of 34p/kWh that would be roughly £1 a day plus the standing charge of 46p a day - £532 before I turn anything on.

[Dod101]

That would make sense, because my smart meter is certainly in communication with my supplier as I get accurate bills without anyone directly reading anything. I will take another look.

As you have a smart meter, does your supplier not provide the facility to look at or download the data in the 1/2 hour meter readings they receive?

Looking at that over a period of time gives you a better idea as it includes the fridge freezer intermittently kicking in.

For example, looking at the data from my supplier (Octopus) I can see that between 02:30 yesterday morning and 07:30 (five hours) whilst the house and everyone was asleep, my house used 0.627kWh of electricity.

Extrapolating that up over the course of the day that is a background use of a fraction over 3kWh (or alternatively a background draw of 0.125kW), so at the new capped rate of 34p/kWh that would be roughly £1 a day plus the standing charge of 46p a day - £532 before I turn anything on.

Thanks. They my do and I will investigate this, but that is a staggering figure and I cannot believe that mine would be any less.

Dod

[richlist]

You guys must have a lot of 'vampire consumers' . When I turn my fridge, freezer and hot tub off my smart meter says usage 13 watts.
I don't have a lot of vampires.....only, 1 bedside clock, clock on cooker, router, tv on standby.......I just remembered cordless phone, boost for domestic hot water, in house smart meter display. I wouldn't want to turn any of them off. So, that will be around £40 a year after Oct' 1st....but some of it is covered by my solar panels.

It does go up after dusk as I have a few garden & security lights.....they all have low energy bulbs fitted.

[AF62]

You guys must have a lot of 'vampire consumers' . When I turn my fridge, freezer and hot tub off my smart meter says usage 13 watts.
I don't have a lot of vampires.....only, 1 bedside clock, clock on cooker, router, tv on standby.......I just remembered cordless phone, boost for domestic hot water, in house smart meter display. I wouldn't want to turn any of them off. So, that will be around £40 a year after Oct' 1st....but some of it is covered by my solar panels.

It does go up after dusk as I have a few garden & security lights.....they all have low energy bulbs fitted.

In decreasing amount of energy use - large American style frost free Fridge/Freezer (so it heats up occasionally to keep defrosted), router, couple of mesh WiFi hubs, five Google home devices, Xbox, multiple network HiFi speakers, air-purifier, cordless phones, Hive wifi controlled heating system, and then on standby, cooker, microwave, washing machine, dishwasher, couple of PCs and monitors, and half a dozen Hive remote bulbs, etc.

It has come down a bit recently, as I have set the HP Microserver that serves media to the house to go into standby for most of the day and night.

[Dod101]

To return to the topic, energy saving. I had occasion to get up in the middle of last night and padded around in the more or less darkness. I was amazed to see the number of lights on, not to read by but on standby. In my kitchen there are two cookers, with clocks, the dishwasher, a Bose CD player and of course the fridge/freezer. In my study it is like a spaceship, the router, monitor and desktop PC itself, a BT telephone system and various extension cords each of which seems to have a monitor light. In the sittingroom the TV was on stand by (I usually switch it off at the wall)

Then the utility room was like the cockpit of another space ship, although the alarm system only has a tiny light, but has another fridge/freezer and various wall switches each with a standby light for some reason.

I have no idea how much electricity all of these things (and there are probably more) use but it must add up and I am resolved to see if I can switch off some of them.

Dod

The term I use for this is "vampire consumption". All the little lights and chargers we have plugged in all the time, routers, clocks, computers in 'sleep' mode, all sucking way ever so slightly on the grid. Each of them consuming negligible power, but we have so many of them.

As it happens I did a check on my vampire consumption the other day. I made sure all the household lights, radios, fridge, boiler etc were off or not running and watched the leccy meter. The flashing red LED on one's meter tells one one's power consumption at that point in time (if you didn't know already). One flash means 1 WattHour of energy consumed. Mine was flashing once every 65 seconds with everything off except my vampire consumers. Have a look at yours!

Lets call it one flash every 60 seconds for convenience. This is 60 Wh per hour. 1.44kWhr per day. I'm paying 35p per kWh for my leccy so my vampire power consumption is broadly the same as paying a second standing charge. My standing charge for leccy is 49p per day.

I have a smart meter but my display does not/will not work and I cannot get through to the supplier. The flashes you mention are interesting. I notice these on my meter but they did not mean anything to me. Now I know. Must take an educated look. Thanks.

Dod

You're welcome. Do post your findings and impressions as and when they arise!

I seem to be the only person in the world who figured out what these flashes mean, and they are really useful. I'm intrigued to find out how my results compare to yours, and anyone else's.

Armed with a torch this morning, I have just checked my meter again and it does indeed have the red flashes you described, but in daylight they are overwhelmed by the green ones which I now understand to be the connection for the smart meter. Today is the first day that I am on the standard tariff, my fixed annual contract having ended yesterday so I am particularly interested. Even with my house in darkness (hence the torch), my red light flashes every 4 seconds or so, presumably with all the stuff on standby that I described. It would indeed be interesting to know what others are showing because we seem to be worlds apart. At the same time, I have taken a meter reading and it is well below what I would have expected so my energy saving measures still seem to be working.

Dod

[servodude]

To return to the topic, energy saving. I had occasion to get up in the middle of last night and padded around in the more or less darkness. I was amazed to see the number of lights on, not to read by but on standby. In my kitchen there are two cookers, with clocks, the dishwasher, a Bose CD player and of course the fridge/freezer. In my study it is like a spaceship, the router, monitor and desktop PC itself, a BT telephone system and various extension cords each of which seems to have a monitor light. In the sittingroom the TV was on stand by (I usually switch it off at the wall)

Then the utility room was like the cockpit of another space ship, although the alarm system only has a tiny light, but has another fridge/freezer and various wall switches each with a standby light for some reason.

I have no idea how much electricity all of these things (and there are probably more) use but it must add up and I am resolved to see if I can switch off some of them.

Dod

The term I use for this is "vampire consumption". All the little lights and chargers we have plugged in all the time, routers, clocks, computers in 'sleep' mode, all sucking way ever so slightly on the grid. Each of them consuming negligible power, but we have so many of them.

As it happens I did a check on my vampire consumption the other day. I made sure all the household lights, radios, fridge, boiler etc were off or not running and watched the leccy meter. The flashing red LED on one's meter tells one one's power consumption at that point in time (if you didn't know already). One flash means 1 WattHour of energy consumed. Mine was flashing once every 65 seconds with everything off except my vampire consumers. Have a look at yours!

Lets call it one flash every 60 seconds for convenience. This is 60 Wh per hour. 1.44kWhr per day. I'm paying 35p per kWh for my leccy so my vampire power consumption is broadly the same as paying a second standing charge. My standing charge for leccy is 49p per day.

I have a smart meter but my display does not/will not work and I cannot get through to the supplier. The flashes you mention are interesting. I notice these on my meter but they did not mean anything to me. Now I know. Must take an educated look. Thanks.

Dod

You're welcome. Do post your findings and impressions as and when they arise!

I seem to be the only person in the world who figured out what these flashes mean, and they are really useful. I'm intrigued to find out how my results compare to yours, and anyone else's.

Armed with a torch this morning, I have just checked my meter again and it does indeed have the red flashes you described, but in daylight they are overwhelmed by the green ones which I now understand to be the connection for the smart meter. Today is the first day that I am on the standard tariff, my fixed annual contract having ended yesterday so I am particularly interested. Even with my house in darkness (hence the torch), my red light flashes every 4 seconds or so, presumably with all the stuff on standby that I described. It would indeed be interesting to know what others are showing because we seem to be worlds apart. At the same time, I have taken a meter reading and it is well below what I would have expected so my energy saving measures still seem to be working.

Dod

Could you see anything that identified what the rate of flashing meant?
4000 and 1000 per kWh are common; at 4sec flashing with stuff off I'd expect the former

Which would suggest your meter might be measuring a consumption of about 220-ish Watts
- 4 second pulses would mean 16000s for each kWh consumed (and at 3600s per hour it's taking you about 4.5hr to use a kWh)

Which sounds not unreasonable (but I'm just back from the pub with my kid )

-sd

[Dod101]

The term I use for this is "vampire consumption". All the little lights and chargers we have plugged in all the time, routers, clocks, computers in 'sleep' mode, all sucking way ever so slightly on the grid. Each of them consuming negligible power, but we have so many of them.

As it happens I did a check on my vampire consumption the other day. I made sure all the household lights, radios, fridge, boiler etc were off or not running and watched the leccy meter. The flashing red LED on one's meter tells one one's power consumption at that point in time (if you didn't know already). One flash means 1 WattHour of energy consumed. Mine was flashing once every 65 seconds with everything off except my vampire consumers. Have a look at yours!

Lets call it one flash every 60 seconds for convenience. This is 60 Wh per hour. 1.44kWhr per day. I'm paying 35p per kWh for my leccy so my vampire power consumption is broadly the same as paying a second standing charge. My standing charge for leccy is 49p per day.

I have a smart meter but my display does not/will not work and I cannot get through to the supplier. The flashes you mention are interesting. I notice these on my meter but they did not mean anything to me. Now I know. Must take an educated look. Thanks.

Dod

You're welcome. Do post your findings and impressions as and when they arise!

I seem to be the only person in the world who figured out what these flashes mean, and they are really useful. I'm intrigued to find out how my results compare to yours, and anyone else's.

Armed with a torch this morning, I have just checked my meter again and it does indeed have the red flashes you described, but in daylight they are overwhelmed by the green ones which I now understand to be the connection for the smart meter. Today is the first day that I am on the standard tariff, my fixed annual contract having ended yesterday so I am particularly interested. Even with my house in darkness (hence the torch), my red light flashes every 4 seconds or so, presumably with all the stuff on standby that I described. It would indeed be interesting to know what others are showing because we seem to be worlds apart. At the same time, I have taken a meter reading and it is well below what I would have expected so my energy saving measures still seem to be working.

Dod

Could you see anything that identified what the rate of flashing meant?
4000 and 1000 per kWh are common; at 4sec flashing with stuff off I'd expect the former

Which would suggest your meter might be measuring a consumption of about 220-ish Watts
- 4 second pulses would mean 16000s for each kWh consumed (and at 3600s per hour it's taking you about 4.5hr to use a kWh)

Which sounds not unreasonable (but I'm just back from the pub with my kid )

-sd

Correct! My meter says 4000 Imps/KWh. Amazing the stuff I do not know! I agree with your calculations and they seem to be equivalent to about 220 watts used per hour, 3 times what Mike4 is using but equivalent to two old light bulbs does not seem too bad. Must try to reduce it though. I now do not leave outside lights on but must see what on stand by I can remove.

Dod

[AF62]

I agree with your calculations and they seem to be equivalent to about 220 watts used per hour, 3 times what Mike4 is using but equivalent to two old light bulbs does not seem too bad. Must try to reduce it though. I now do not leave outside lights on but must see what on stand by I can remove.

Dod

The trouble with doing the measurement as you have done by counting the flashes is was the fridge freezer running the compressor whilst you were counting or not.

If it was then the 220w might be reasonable, but if it wasn't then 220w might be quite high.

Take a meter reading last thing at night and then take a meter reading first thing in the morning and divide by the number of hours between them to get a better average 'vampire' usage.

Or alternatively turn the fridge freezer off and count the flashes (and then turn the fridge freezer back on!).

[Dod101]

I agree with your calculations and they seem to be equivalent to about 220 watts used per hour, 3 times what Mike4 is using but equivalent to two old light bulbs does not seem too bad. Must try to reduce it though. I now do not leave outside lights on but must see what on stand by I can remove.

Dod

The trouble with doing the measurement as you have done by counting the flashes is was the fridge freezer running the compressor whilst you were counting or not.

If it was then the 220w might be reasonable, but if it wasn't then 220w might be quite high.

Take a meter reading last thing at night and then take a meter reading first thing in the morning and divide by the number of hours between them to get a better average 'vampire' usage.

Or alternatively turn the fridge freezer off and count the flashes (and then turn the fridge freezer back on!).

You mean because the freezer is intermittent? To be honest, when I try to count the time between flashes it is a bit hit and miss anyway and not really accurate. I am simply trying to get some 'handle' on my usage.

Dod

[AF62]

I agree with your calculations and they seem to be equivalent to about 220 watts used per hour, 3 times what Mike4 is using but equivalent to two old light bulbs does not seem too bad. Must try to reduce it though. I now do not leave outside lights on but must see what on stand by I can remove.

Dod

The trouble with doing the measurement as you have done by counting the flashes is was the fridge freezer running the compressor whilst you were counting or not.

If it was then the 220w might be reasonable, but if it wasn't then 220w might be quite high.

Take a meter reading last thing at night and then take a meter reading first thing in the morning and divide by the number of hours between them to get a better average 'vampire' usage.

Or alternatively turn the fridge freezer off and count the flashes (and then turn the fridge freezer back on!).

You mean because the freezer is intermittent? To be honest, when I try to count the time between flashes it is a bit hit and miss anyway and not really accurate. I am simply trying to get some 'handle' on my usage.

Dod

Yes, the fridge/freezer compressor is a significant load but is only intermittent for a period of a few minutes every hour or so. If you took the reading during those few minutes the fridge/freezer compressor is running then 220w includes that and realistically 5.28kWh day background usage including the fridge/freezer isn't too bad.

But if the fridge/freezer wasn't running when you took the reading then 5.28kWh a day background usage isn't great.

[Dod101]

I agree with your calculations and they seem to be equivalent to about 220 watts used per hour, 3 times what Mike4 is using but equivalent to two old light bulbs does not seem too bad. Must try to reduce it though. I now do not leave outside lights on but must see what on stand by I can remove.

Dod

The trouble with doing the measurement as you have done by counting the flashes is was the fridge freezer running the compressor whilst you were counting or not.

If it was then the 220w might be reasonable, but if it wasn't then 220w might be quite high.

Take a meter reading last thing at night and then take a meter reading first thing in the morning and divide by the number of hours between them to get a better average 'vampire' usage.

Or alternatively turn the fridge freezer off and count the flashes (and then turn the fridge freezer back on!).

You mean because the freezer is intermittent? To be honest, when I try to count the time between flashes it is a bit hit and miss anyway and not really accurate. I am simply trying to get some 'handle' on my usage.

Dod

Yes, the fridge/freezer compressor is a significant load but is only intermittent for a period of a few minutes every hour or so. If you took the reading during those few minutes the fridge/freezer compressor is running then 220w includes that and realistically 5.28kWh day background usage including the fridge/freezer isn't too bad.

But if the fridge/freezer wasn't running when you took the reading then 5.28kWh a day background usage isn't great.

OK So it is quite significant. I do not think that my background usage is great and I have made no pretence to think otherwise. be interesting to know what others use which was where I cam in in trying to answer Mike4's comments.

Dod

[AF62]

Yes, the fridge/freezer compressor is a significant load but is only intermittent for a period of a few minutes every hour or so. If you took the reading during those few minutes the fridge/freezer compressor is running then 220w includes that and realistically 5.28kWh day background usage including the fridge/freezer isn't too bad.

But if the fridge/freezer wasn't running when you took the reading then 5.28kWh a day background usage isn't great.

OK So it is quite significant. I do not think that my background usage is great and I have made no pretence to think otherwise. be interesting to know what others use which was where I cam in in trying to answer Mike4's comments.

Dod

Between 2am and 7am when nothing 'active' was being used my house was consuming around 120w which includes the fridge/freezer running - and that is with quite a lot of stuff on standby (routers, wifi boosters, tv, hive system, etc.) so I would suggest you can easily cut 100w consumption, which would be about 876kWh a year that would cost about £300.

[GoSeigen]

Lets call it one flash every 60 seconds for convenience. This is 60 Wh per hour. 1.44kWhr per day.

Also known as 60W. Same as a weak old-style incandescent light bulb. If every household in the world had the same vampire consumption as your home 24/7 it would still total roughly half the electrical power wasted by bitcoin.


GS

[88V8]

Is it not possible to buy white goods that do not have a standby mode... never used to be that way, but if I think about it even we in our technophobic household have two radios, oven, microwave.
OK the router and UPS and ansafone need to be on, and two time switches and a room stat and two dehumidifiers arrgh this is getting worse...but the oven???

Many appliances do not need to be always on, but if one switches them off a tedious resetting process ensues.

V8

[servodude]

Is it not possible to buy white goods that do not have a standby mode... never used to be that way, but if I think about it even we in our technophobic household have two radios, oven, microwave.
OK the router and UPS and ansafone need to be on, and two time switches and a room stat and two dehumidifiers arrgh this is getting worse...but the oven???

Many appliances do not need to be always on, but if one switches them off a tedious resetting process ensues.

V8

Standby mode will consume less than 12w in anything (and normally much less)
- unless it's one of those things that gets round regulations by letting you have a way to configure it to have a "fake standby" mode (because of features - e.g. PS5)
- or its old tech e.g tube telly or VOX AC 30?
- or the UK has radically diverged from the EU and at the same time managed to create an internal white goods industry to take advantage of not needing to be a decent engineer

-sd