The Lemon Fool

Just ordered 3 metres of hardwood logs from our usual supplier.
The 10" has gone from £140 in August to £165, and the 15" from £130 to £155.

That will probably last us an average year.

This is the woodhouse I built in 2013 for storage



The floor is raised, made of antique oak boards spaced for airflow. The feather-edge is spaced so it overlaps as usual to keep the water out, but there is airflow between each piece. The eves are open for airflow. It's lined with stainless mesh to keep the wood away from the sides where it would block the airflow.
It stores about 3 metres, but by autumn some of the space is usually taken up by wood culled from the garden or rescued from the lane, which tends to be thinner than the wood we buy in and therefore takes up more space for a given calorific value. If I were building it again I would make it a bit larger.

The wood I have just ordered will be too much to store as it's already half full, so this morning I went and scrounged two old pallettes on which I shall store the surplus under a tarp. It will be sitting on stone-filled gabions, well drained, so should not sweat.

As a rule we put the storage rads on low before we start using the woodburners, but I think this year we will try using the woodburner in the sitting room in the evening, and leaved the rest unheated until the weather really cools.
Not that we really need to economise, just as we don't need to buy the reduced stuff in Waitrose, but one gets a certain glow from saving a bob.

V8

Can anyone advise, in a situation where one has a full height balcony door which is double-glazed, would there be a significant energy saving, if one then added a frame around the inside of the window recess and installed an additional glass window, to effectively create secondary double/third glazing? A bit like the old secondary double glazing that some had back in the 70's. The object of the exercise would be to cut heat loss through the existing large (double glazed) patio door type windows.

I assume that if one bought purpose built upvc units it would be more expensive than a DIY type installation. I have seen some amateurish arrangements, sometimes using a wooden frame with a perspex screen to create the additional sealed airspace.

richfool wrote:Can anyone advise, in a situation where one has a full height balcony door which is double-glazed, would there be a significant energy saving, if one then added a frame around the inside of the window recess and installed an additional glass window, to effectively create secondary double/third glazing? A bit like the old secondary double glazing that some had back in the 70's. The object of the exercise would be to cut heat loss through the existing large (double glazed) patio door type windows.

I assume that if one bought purpose built upvc units it would be more expensive than a DIY type installation. I have seen some amateurish arrangements, sometimes using a wooden frame with a perspex screen to create the additional sealed airspace.

Or a good heavy, lined curtain down to the floor - I find that works well over my french windows.

Where's Snorvey when you need him?

I've found an incredible way to stay warm this winter. I've a small extension to build for my parents-in-law. My father-in-law's health requires some additional features downstairs. I'm not going to be able to get a mechanical excavator in to construct the foundations. All digging and moving of concrete will be by hand.

You're all invited to bring a shovel and help. I guarantee you will stay warm. Those who are travelling can sleep overnight in the garage and of course I strongly suggest you bring your own soup and thick sleeping bags.

AiY(D)

88V8 wrote:Just ordered 3 metres of hardwood logs from our usual supplier.
The 10" has gone from £140 in August to £165, and the 15" from £130 to £155.

That will probably last us an average year.

This is the woodhouse I built in 2013 for storage

The floor is raised, made of antique oak boards spaced for airflow. The feather-edge is spaced so it overlaps as usual to keep the water out, but there is airflow between each piece. The eves are open for airflow. It's lined with stainless mesh to keep the wood away from the sides where it would block the airflow.
It stores about 3 metres, but by autumn some of the space is usually taken up by wood culled from the garden or rescued from the lane, which tends to be thinner than the wood we buy in and therefore takes up more space for a given calorific value. If I were building it again I would make it a bit larger.

The wood I have just ordered will be too much to store as it's already half full, so this morning I went and scrounged two old pallettes on which I shall store the surplus under a tarp. It will be sitting on stone-filled gabions, well drained, so should not sweat.

As a rule we put the storage rads on low before we start using the woodburners, but I think this year we will try using the woodburner in the sitting room in the evening, and leaved the rest unheated until the weather really cools.
Not that we really need to economise, just as we don't need to buy the reduced stuff in Waitrose, but one gets a certain glow from saving a bob.

V8

Great store but for anyone thinking of doing the same, it does not need to be anything like as elaborate if it is for storing kiln dried logs. I should think it would be ideal for 'green' logs. I have a conventional log store, about 10 feet long and about 5 feet high and around 30 inches deep. That takes a lot of logs and currently it is about full and I have another lot in my garage.

By the way that sounds like a good price for your logs if they are kiln dried.

In midwinter unless really cold, I will have my central heating only during the day, but when I light my woodburner around 4 pm usually, I turn off the central heating as the woodburner is quite good enough. Mind you I do not like a warm bedroom.

Dood

daveh wrote:

richfool wrote:Can anyone advise, in a situation where one has a full height balcony door which is double-glazed, would there be a significant energy saving, if one then added a frame around the inside of the window recess and installed an additional glass window, to effectively create secondary double/third glazing? A bit like the old secondary double glazing that some had back in the 70's. The object of the exercise would be to cut heat loss through the existing large (double glazed) patio door type windows.

I assume that if one bought purpose built upvc units it would be more expensive than a DIY type installation. I have seen some amateurish arrangements, sometimes using a wooden frame with a perspex screen to create the additional sealed airspace.

Or a good heavy, lined curtain down to the floor - I find that works well over my french windows.

Yes, we have got those already, but we prefer to have our curtains open in the daytime, so we can see out of the windows; and even in the evenings we may want to look out from time to time, which then means the curtains get opened, and the warm air from the room gets through to the window glass.

richfool wrote:

daveh wrote:

richfool wrote:Can anyone advise, in a situation where one has a full height balcony door which is double-glazed, would there be a significant energy saving, if one then added a frame around the inside of the window recess and installed an additional glass window, to effectively create secondary double/third glazing? A bit like the old secondary double glazing that some had back in the 70's. The object of the exercise would be to cut heat loss through the existing large (double glazed) patio door type windows.

I assume that if one bought purpose built upvc units it would be more expensive than a DIY type installation. I have seen some amateurish arrangements, sometimes using a wooden frame with a perspex screen to create the additional sealed airspace.

Or a good heavy, lined curtain down to the floor - I find that works well over my french windows.

Yes, we have got those already, but we prefer to have our curtains open in the daytime, so we can see out of the windows; and even in the evenings we may want to look out from time to time, which then means the curtains get opened, and the warm air from the room gets through to the window glass.

Yes same here, plus the windows face southish so if its sunny even in winter I can get a lot of solar gain in the room if the curtains are open during the day. I'll close them at night in winter and its always significantly colder behind the curtains than in the room, though better than it was as I had new French windows fitted a couple of years ago.

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:Where's Snorvey when you need him?

Out enjoying the weather, I expect. Let's hope he fares better on the snow&ice this year.

You're all invited to bring a shovel and help. I guarantee you will stay warm. Those who are travelling can sleep overnight in the garage and of course I strongly suggest you bring your own soup and thick sleeping bags.

AiY(D)

And presumably camping stove and tea bags if one enjoys a spot of indulgence?

Oh, hang on. Sorry, haven't got a shovel. I'll have to pass on your kind offer.

.
due to unexpected ill health , i have no choice but to keep warm .

that heat is coming from elctricity , oil central heating , and an open log fire .

quite expensive now , fortunately i can manage it .

JD

daveh wrote:

richfool wrote:

daveh wrote:

richfool wrote:Can anyone advise, in a situation where one has a full height balcony door which is double-glazed, would there be a significant energy saving, if one then added a frame around the inside of the window recess and installed an additional glass window, to effectively create secondary double/third glazing? A bit like the old secondary double glazing that some had back in the 70's. The object of the exercise would be to cut heat loss through the existing large (double glazed) patio door type windows.

I assume that if one bought purpose built upvc units it would be more expensive than a DIY type installation. I have seen some amateurish arrangements, sometimes using a wooden frame with a perspex screen to create the additional sealed airspace.

Or a good heavy, lined curtain down to the floor - I find that works well over my french windows.

Yes, we have got those already, but we prefer to have our curtains open in the daytime, so we can see out of the windows; and even in the evenings we may want to look out from time to time, which then means the curtains get opened, and the warm air from the room gets through to the window glass.

Yes same here, plus the windows face southish so if its sunny even in winter I can get a lot of solar gain in the room if the curtains are open during the day. I'll close them at night in winter and its always significantly colder behind the curtains than in the room, though better than it was as I had new French windows fitted a couple of years ago.

My question was, as highlighted above: "in a situation where one has a full height balcony door which is double-glazed, would there be a significant energy saving, if one then added a frame around the inside of the window recess and installed an additional glass window, to effectively create secondary double/third glazing? A bit like the old secondary double glazing that some had back in the 70's. The object of the exercise would be to cut heat loss through the existing large (double glazed) patio door type windows.

Yes, we have full length heavy lined curtains. However, I asked the question specifically about secondary glazing, because it fitted a specific set of circumstances (and because our two sets of patio doors/windows face north and east, and the eastern one only gets the sun for a couple of hours in the morning [due to trees/a wood being behind us]). Therefore we wish to let in what bit of sun we get and the solar gain arising from it, which as said is short-lived, but we then wish to retain as much of that heat as possible and avoid losing it back through the windows*, and we don't wish to close the curtains to achieve that. Thus my specific question, about the viability of a secondary/supplementary form of glazing (double or treble). I wasn't asking about alternatives.

*Windows tend to act as reverse radiators, and currently form the weakest link in our flat's insulation.

richfool wrote:

daveh wrote:

richfool wrote:

daveh wrote:

richfool wrote:Can anyone advise, in a situation where one has a full height balcony door which is double-glazed, would there be a significant energy saving, if one then added a frame around the inside of the window recess and installed an additional glass window, to effectively create secondary double/third glazing? A bit like the old secondary double glazing that some had back in the 70's. The object of the exercise would be to cut heat loss through the existing large (double glazed) patio door type windows.

I assume that if one bought purpose built upvc units it would be more expensive than a DIY type installation. I have seen some amateurish arrangements, sometimes using a wooden frame with a perspex screen to create the additional sealed airspace.

Or a good heavy, lined curtain down to the floor - I find that works well over my french windows.

Yes, we have got those already, but we prefer to have our curtains open in the daytime, so we can see out of the windows; and even in the evenings we may want to look out from time to time, which then means the curtains get opened, and the warm air from the room gets through to the window glass.

Yes same here, plus the windows face southish so if its sunny even in winter I can get a lot of solar gain in the room if the curtains are open during the day. I'll close them at night in winter and its always significantly colder behind the curtains than in the room, though better than it was as I had new French windows fitted a couple of years ago.

My question was, as highlighted above: "in a situation where one has a full height balcony door which is double-glazed, would there be a significant energy saving, if one then added a frame around the inside of the window recess and installed an additional glass window, to effectively create secondary double/third glazing? A bit like the old secondary double glazing that some had back in the 70's. The object of the exercise would be to cut heat loss through the existing large (double glazed) patio door type windows.

Yes, we have full length heavy lined curtains. However, I asked the question specifically about secondary glazing, because it fitted a specific set of circumstances (and because our two sets of patio doors/windows face north and east, and the eastern one only gets the sun for a couple of hours in the morning [due to trees/a wood being behind us]). Therefore we wish to let in what bit of sun we get and the solar gain arising from it, which as said is short-lived, but we then wish to retain as much of that heat as possible and avoid losing it back through the windows*, and we don't wish to close the curtains to achieve that. Thus my specific question, about the viability of a secondary/supplementary form of glazing (double or treble). I wasn't asking about alternatives.

*Windows tend to act as reverse radiators, and currently form the weakest link in our flat's insulation.

It does work a bit
I've seen it done with bubble wrap on a frame - which gives an interesting compound view of the outside

It's very difficult to get a great seal - but it does go some way towards reducing the cold spot which creates a gradient for convected air flow. There are always draughts though unless you bog/fill them

If you do already have curtains of a long enough drape they would be MUCH better as an insulator
- try both though and then get heavier curtains; they really work (and were a staple of Victorian hallways with single pane glass doors and surrounds because they really bloody do a great job)
- but yeah you do need to open them to let the light through

-sd

daveh wrote:

richfool wrote:Can anyone advise, in a situation where one has a full height balcony door which is double-glazed, would there be a significant energy saving, if one then added a frame around the inside of the window recess and installed an additional glass window, to effectively create secondary double/third glazing? A bit like the old secondary double glazing that some had back in the 70's. The object of the exercise would be to cut heat loss through the existing large (double glazed) patio door type windows.

I assume that if one bought purpose built upvc units it would be more expensive than a DIY type installation. I have seen some amateurish arrangements, sometimes using a wooden frame with a perspex screen to create the additional sealed airspace.

Or a good heavy, lined curtain down to the floor - I find that works well over my french windows.

Or some thermal (pleated) blinds. I just got some that pull down behind the curtains - very effective.

Yes, a hard frost on the car this morning, just happens to be the one morning I have to get up early to drive the missus to the station...

Scott.

Ditto here, the first really cold morning. Bit of a shock to the system. My heating is currently on full blast but I will get out before long for my walk and that will heat me up.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:Ditto here, the first really cold morning. Bit of a shock to the system. My heating is currently on full blast but I will get out before long for my walk and that will heat me up.

Dod

Good morning sir,

Without wishing to sound trite or condescending have you and Snorvey looked at using microwave wheat bags?

We have several and I've found that if I am sat still and put one on my [cold] feet it can help exceptionally well.

Take care

AiY(D)

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:

Dod101 wrote:Ditto here, the first really cold morning. Bit of a shock to the system. My heating is currently on full blast but I will get out before long for my walk and that will heat me up.

Dod

Good morning sir,

Without wishing to sound trite or condescending have you and Snorvey looked at using microwave wheat bags?

We have several and I've found that if I am sat still and put one on my [cold] feet it can help exceptionally well.

Take care

AiY(D)

My late wife used to use them but I really do not feel the cold enough to worry about this sort of thing. I tend to muddle through the day and then get my logburner going in the late afternoon. It then keeps the house warm until the following morning. Besides, about zero outside? That's not cold in my book!

But thanks for your concern!

Dod

Dod101 wrote:Besides, about zero outside? That's not cold in my book!
Dod

Good to see someone thinks and feels like me

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:
Without wishing to sound trite or condescending have you and Snorvey looked at using microwave wheat bags?

We have several and I've found that if I am sat still and put one on my [cold] feet it can help exceptionally well.

Take care

AiY(D)

We have 2 excellent 'wheat sacks' made by OH from the lower halves of the legs of a pair of old corduroy trousers and a little sewing to seal both ends. They don't actually contain wheat but very out of date rice. They work very well. Useful for sore joints as well as extra warmth.

RC

ReformedCharacter wrote:

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:
Without wishing to sound trite or condescending have you and Snorvey looked at using microwave wheat bags?

We have several and I've found that if I am sat still and put one on my [cold] feet it can help exceptionally well.

Take care

AiY(D)

We have 2 excellent 'wheat sacks' made by OH from the lower halves of the legs of a pair of old corduroy trousers and a little sewing to seal both ends. They don't actually contain wheat but very out of date rice. They work very well. Useful for sore joints as well as extra warmth.

RC

Yes I am not knocking these. They are very effective but with wheat bags (don't know about rice), if they are old, it seems easy to overheat them with potentially dire consequences as my wife discovered once.

As for generally keeping warm at home, aIwear an additional layer on my top half but am fortunate not to suffer from cold hands or feet.

Dod

Snorvey wrote: I am wearing thermals and fingerless gloves

I hope your webcam is turned off