Energy Saving

[XFool]

OK the router and UPS and ansafone need to be on, and two time switches and a room stat and two dehumidifiers arrgh this is getting worse...but the oven???

Beg to differ!

The router doesn't "need to be on" - unless it needs to be on - if you see what I mean. That is, unless it is in use it doesn't actually "need" to be on - such as overnight.

[Dod101]

OK the router and UPS and ansafone need to be on, and two time switches and a room stat and two dehumidifiers arrgh this is getting worse...but the oven???

Beg to differ!

The router doesn't "need to be on" - unless it needs to be on - if you see what I mean. That is, unless it is in use it doesn't actually "need" to be on - such as overnight.

I thought that a router needs to be kept on otherwise you go through the hassle of letting it 'settle down' which can take a couple of days, in other words it will never reach optimum. Has that advice changed?

Dod

[XFool]

The router doesn't "need to be on" - unless it needs to be on - if you see what I mean. That is, unless it is in use it doesn't actually "need" to be on - such as overnight.

I thought that a router needs to be kept on otherwise you go through the hassle of letting it 'settle down' which can take a couple of days, in other words it will never reach optimum. Has that advice changed?

Probably not!

But *** the advice: what I am telling you is simple fact. (At least it is if your line is working OK)

After being on BB now for about ten years I gradually learned from experience that - as in other areas of life - there are a number of well known and tenaciously clung to 'myths', believed by everybody because... everybody believes in them (cf. "Tony Blair lied when he told us the UK could be attacked by WMD in 45 minutes"; "Until quite recently UK share dividends had 10% tax deducted at source.")

I turn my router off every night (at least, when I remember to!) and on again in the morning. It just works.

[Dod101]

The router doesn't "need to be on" - unless it needs to be on - if you see what I mean. That is, unless it is in use it doesn't actually "need" to be on - such as overnight.

I thought that a router needs to be kept on otherwise you go through the hassle of letting it 'settle down' which can take a couple of days, in other words it will never reach optimum. Has that advice changed?

Probably not!

But *** the advice: what I am telling you is simple fact. (At least it is if your line is working OK)

After being on BB now for about ten years I gradually learned from experience that - as in other areas of life - there are a number of well known and tenaciously clung to 'myths', believed by everybody because... everybody believes in them (cf. "Tony Blair lied when he told us the UK could be attacked by WMD in 45 minutes"; "Until quite recently UK share dividends had 10% tax deducted at source.")

I turn my router off every night (at least, when I remember to!) and on again in the morning. It just works.

That is interesting because I thought the advice came from the provider, in my case BT. I suspect that a lot of my idle usage of electricity comes from my PC, monitor and the router, all of which I leave on. I may switch them all off this evening to see what difference it makes to my usage and also how easy it is to get them up and running again.

Dod

[scotview]

I'm not quite sure what you guys are trying to do. My base energy usage is 100 watts. Thats 72kWh per month.

In January my total energy usage is 3500 kWh. Yours will be about the same.

So your baseload energy is negligible. A couple of things.

1 To really save, you should try and minimize your winter heating load.

2 Heating and cooking by gas is incredibly cheap compared to electricity. If you are on gas heating you are fortunate.

[XFool]

That is interesting because I thought the advice came from the provider, in my case BT. I suspect that a lot of my idle usage of electricity comes from my PC, monitor and the router, all of which I leave on. I may switch them all off this evening to see what difference it makes to my usage and also how easy it is to get them up and running again.

Fingers crossed.

Let us know how you get on.

[Itsallaguess]

I thought the advice [to leave my router on] came from the provider, in my case BT.

There's a broadband process in the exchanges called Dynamic Line Management (DLM), and over time, this process manages the most appropriate broadband connection speed for your particular broadband installation Dod.

Regularly turning an ADSL broadband router off at night can cause issues with that DLM process, which can interpret router power-down interruptions as 'issues' on your line, which can then result in the DLM process down-rating your broadband connection speed to cope with the 'issue' that it's seeing.

That DLM risk, and the broader power-cycling risk to electronics and small power supplies, and what I'd imagine is a 'I want it to work when I need it' approach to being connected to the internet in general, and the important fact that your router is likely to be drawing a very small amount of power, would all round up to be enough for me to recommend simply leaving the router on at all times...

I say this as someone who's keen to make sure that devices in my own home are only on when necessary as well, but your broadband router is a good example of something that's also being monitored and managed by something outside of your home, in the upstream equipment that provides your internet connection, and as such I think that needs additional consideration in this particular case and I suspect the DLM process is exactly what your BT provider was talking about when they recommended that you keep it on...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[XFool]

I'm not quite sure what you guys are trying to do. My base energy usage is 100 watts. Thats 72kWh per month.

In January my total energy usage is 3500 kWh. Yours will be about the same.

So your baseload energy is negligible. A couple of things.

1 To really save, you should try and minimize your winter heating load.

2 Heating and cooking by gas is incredibly cheap compared to electricity. If you are on gas heating you are fortunate.

Agreed.

[Eboli]

About 4 years ago I started to switch my router off when I went away for holidays in the winter months. But I soon discovered that my broadband speeds had fallen when I switched the router on. Eventually my supplier at that time (BT) explained that in their monitoring process I would have had my "speeds' adjusted (I'm sure the technician didn't say that but it is what I understood). He advised me to keep the router on whilst I was away and have done so ever since. My new provider, Sky, also confirmed when I asked them that I should keep the router switched on. Unless you tell me otherwise I would have thought the costs of keeping the router on would be very little for, say, 4 week periods?

Eb.

[AF62]

The router doesn't "need to be on" - unless it needs to be on - if you see what I mean. That is, unless it is in use it doesn't actually "need" to be on - such as overnight.

But then many are using their routers all the time - WiFi cameras, WiFi, heating controls, etc.

[scotview]

WiFi heating controls.

Good point AF62. The savings made from heating control kWh will be several orders of magnitude larger than the milliamps saved by switching off the router. You'll also lose the heating "history".

[Lootman]

About 4 years ago I started to switch my router off when I went away for holidays in the winter months. But I soon discovered that my broadband speeds had fallen when I switched the router on. Eventually my supplier at that time (BT) explained that in their monitoring process I would have had my "speeds' adjusted (I'm sure the technician didn't say that but it is what I understood). He advised me to keep the router on whilst I was away and have done so ever since. My new provider, Sky, also confirmed when I asked them that I should keep the router switched on. Unless you tell me otherwise I would have thought the costs of keeping the router on would be very little for, say, 4 week periods?

Eb.

I always leave them on. (I have 2 separate internet services). I figure that way the devices I leave at home will continue to get updates and fixes as they are distributed.

Plus it remains available for anyone I authorise to enter my home e.g. friends, family, neighbours.

Also you may have things like home security cameras, thermostats etc. that rely on internet.

[XFool]

Router On/Router Off... Same difference.

Perhaps my router is "special"? Perhaps my phone line is "special"? Perhaps my exchange is "special"? Perhaps I am "special"? (Or perhaps a liar?)
Perhaps not.

This is starting to remind me of the email/phone SPAM conundrum. Good God! I must be "special" after all.

I should point out I know the full spiel about the DLM - including reading it up on https://kitz.co.uk - In all those years on ADSL 2+ (only just changed over to FTTC) and also using such as dslStats to monitor line when there were problems, I have never (repeat NEVER) seen this speed adjustment taking place on ADSL. The line syncs at the speed it connects at and that is the speed, unless there are faults causing drops and therefore reconnection at a different speed; or you disconnect and reconnect. The SNRM changes dynamically, the speed does not. This is what I saw and experienced myself, not what someone told me or what I read somewhere.

That's ADSL (there's more but I won't bore you). I am only just learning the ropes with fibre but so far so good. Sync speeds up and down both at maximum specified. See how it goes.

Router On/Router Off... Same difference.

Maybe "you" are "different"?


A short PS.

Think about it. If there was a power failure in an area all the routers go off. If they all reconnected at a lower speed when power was restored the BB companies would be flooded with complaints. The exchange/DLM 'knows' (i.e. assumes) the router has been powered off unless it looks otherwise. (It's in the kitz.co.uk write up about DLM - that was entirely consistent with all my experience. Not with what people say.)

There is always a possible issue with turning electrical equipment On/Off vs leaving it on permanently. But that is another matter and people will decide for themselves.

[Dod101]

I thought the advice [to leave my router on] came from the provider, in my case BT.

There's a broadband process in the exchanges called Dynamic Line Management (DLM), and over time, this process manages the most appropriate broadband connection speed for your particular broadband installation Dod.

Regularly turning an ADSL broadband router off at night can cause issues with that DLM process, which can interpret router power-down interruptions as 'issues' on your line, which can then result in the DLM process down-rating your broadband connection speed to cope with the 'issue' that it's seeing.

That DLM risk, and the broader power-cycling risk to electronics and small power supplies, and what I'd imagine is a 'I want it to work when I need it' approach to being connected to the internet in general, and the important fact that your router is likely to be drawing a very small amount of power, would all round up to be enough for me to recommend simply leaving the router on at all times...

I say this as someone who's keen to make sure that devices in my own home are only on when necessary as well, but your broadband router is a good example of something that's also being monitored and managed by something outside of your home, in the upstream equipment that provides your internet connection, and as such I think that needs additional consideration in this particular case and I suspect the DLM process is exactly what your BT provider was talking about when they recommended that you keep it on...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

I suspect that in non technical language that wa what I was getting at. So we now have two conflicting views. A bit like Mr Pickering, I too may picker about and just leave things as they are.

Dod

[daveh]

I'm not quite sure what you guys are trying to do. My base energy usage is 100 watts. Thats 72kWh per month.

In January my total energy usage is 3500 kWh. Yours will be about the same.

So your baseload energy is negligible. A couple of things.

1 To really save, you should try and minimize your winter heating load.

2 Heating and cooking by gas is incredibly cheap compared to electricity. If you are on gas heating you are fortunate.

No.

I use less than 3500kWh a year. I average just 1881 kWh per year over the last 5 years. My lowest years usage was 1346 kWh in 2003. I have an electricity only house (no gas) and a woodburner for the central heating.

[monabri]

Router costs (£14 per year at 28p per kWh...24hrs per day/7 days per week usage).

https://energyusecalculator.com/electri ... router.htm

[Link also to other energy costs on the right hand side in a list - just ignore the $ sign]

[88V8]

Router... I was also told by my ISP - Zen - not to turn it off, as IAAG has explained.
I do however switch off my PC and screen every night.

However, this is deck chairs compared to heating costs. I just paid £475 for around a year's wood, but if we used the woodburners all day, I expect one could triple that cost, quite apart from the faff.

Thermals, dear boy. DAK what female Long Johns are called?

V8

[Lootman]

DAK what female Long Johns are called?

Plain Janes?

[XFool]

...Been notified today that from 1 Oct I will be paying 37.875p/kWh (inclusive of VAT), it all adds up. But yes, winter heating will be what really counts.

[monabri]

I'm not quite sure what you guys are trying to do. My base energy usage is 100 watts. Thats 72kWh per month.

In January my total energy usage is 3500 kWh. Yours will be about the same.

So your baseload energy is negligible. A couple of things.

1 To really save, you should try and minimize your winter heating load.

2 Heating and cooking by gas is incredibly cheap compared to electricity. If you are on gas heating you are fortunate.

No.

I use less than 3500kWh a year. I average just 1881 kWh per year over the last 5 years. My lowest years usage was 1346 kWh in 2003. I have an electricity only house (no gas) and a woodburner for the central heating.

Do you use the woodburner for water heating, heating and cooking?