Energy costs. Oh dear.......

[Itsallaguess]

‎
Some interesting info continues to drop out of my current energy-use metrics, now that we've just completed our 'Summer Period' (April to October), where our rolling 12-month figures have recently been updated -

• Rolling 12-month GAS usage is 22% lower than 2.5 years ago

• Rolling 12-month ELECTRICITY usage is 27% lower than 2.5 years ago

• Rolling 12-month TOTAL ENERGY COSTS are now roughly the same as they were 2.5 years ago

It'll be interesting to see where my rolling 12-monthly overall costs go from here, but it's certainly the case that our collective household efforts to minimise gas and electricity use, where it's been possible to do so without too much effort or lack of comfort, continues to be worthwhile.

One caveat with the above 12-month total energy-cost comparison is that last winter I was still on a dual-fuel price fix, which ended in April, and so whilst the recent summer-period has been exposed to our much higher energy costs, last winter's costs weren't, and so I fully expect rolling 12-month costs to rise next April once the next much more expensive winter figures drop out.

During this exercise, I've always considered the direct-cost side of things to be something that I have limited current influence over, whilst the household energy-usage side of things was something that we could definitely look at, which I think is clearly borne out of the first two usage figures above.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[funduffer]

‎
Some interesting info continues to drop out of my current energy-use metrics, now that we've just completed our 'Summer Period' (April to October), where our rolling 12-month figures have recently been updated -

• Rolling 12-month GAS usage is 22% lower than 2.5 years ago

• Rolling 12-month ELECTRICITY usage is 27% lower than 2.5 years ago

• Rolling 12-month TOTAL ENERGY COSTS are now roughly the same as they were 2.5 years ago

It'll be interesting to see where my rolling 12-monthly overall costs go from here, but it's certainly the case that our collective household efforts to minimise gas and electricity use, where it's been possible to do so without too much effort or lack of comfort, continues to be worthwhile.

One caveat with the above 12-month total energy-cost comparison is that last winter I was still on a dual-fuel price fix, which ended in April, and so whilst the recent summer-period has been exposed to our much higher energy costs, last winter's costs weren't, and so I fully expect rolling 12-month costs to rise next April once the next much more expensive winter figures drop out.

During this exercise, I've always considered the direct-cost side of things to be something that I have limited current influence over, whilst the household energy-usage side of things was something that we could definitely look at, which I think is clearly borne out of the first two usage figures above.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

I keep 12 month rolling average gas and electricity usage as well.

Compared to 4 years ago (Sept 2019):

Gas usage is down 43% to 9000 kWh

Electricity usage is up 23% to 3450 kWh

Compared to 4 years ago, I have now got solar panels, a heat-pump powered aircon unit, an EV + home charger, more loft insulation, under-floor insulation and new cavity wall insulation.

My direct debit in 2019 was £89, now it is £119, a 33% increase.

However, in 2019 I was running a diesel car which cost about 12p per mile in fuel cost, and now I pay an average of 3p per mile for the EV with my overnight tariff plus a small amount of public charging. For the 8000 miles per year I do, that works out as a 8000 x 9p = £720 annual car fuel cost saving or £60 per month.

So overall, I am £30 per month better off!

FD

[Itsallaguess]

My early conclusion is that higher energy prices aren't necessarily a bad thing.

I'd love to heat my whole house to 'toasty' and I could probably afford it too...but at the same time it's been satisfying to see the reduction in usage (if not a reduction in bills).

If I'm harsh on myself, it could be said that I was playing a game at reducing my usage when to so many in this country it's not a game at all - it's deadly serious.....but I think we should all play our part.

I agree with the thrust of that, and I'm similarly lucky in that I could no doubt afford higher energy bills as well, if push came to shove, but I feel that over the past few years I've managed to re-calibrate my approach to household energy-usage so that it's now much more closely aligned with my approach to household food.

Ever since I became a home-owner I've considered the idea of food waste to almost be a cardinal sin. I'm talking about what ends up on our plates here, rather than the natural wastage from preparing and cooking things, and I'm proud to say that over many, many years, we've collectively managed to plan and prepare meals so that adequate portions are served, all servings are eaten, and there's almost nothing ever thrown in the bin afterwards that couldn't be eaten, and that's for three of us in our house. I think I've got a big bit of my Grandad in me in this area, who used to be horrified at the idea of 'wasting good food', and quite rightly so, in my view.

So whilst I've always had that approach to household food, it's only in recent years that I've questioned why we wouldn't have the same approach to household energy-usage as well, and I'll admit that until about 4 years ago I'd never really considered it like that, but I now think it's absolutely right to do so, and I'm happy to try and work out, just as we do with our regular food-planning, how to deliver whichever type of household energy we want and need, where and when we need it, and try to be concious at all times about overindulgent and unnecessary 'wastage', and to actively look for ways to both avoid waste and also to focus where we do use energy in our household so that it achieves the most efficient and useful 'outcome'.

So just as I'd not want to be scraping good food into a bin, I don't want to waste household energy either, and it's not primarily a 'direct cost' issue, but more one of wanting to avoid that 'waste', and on that score alone, I think it's already been a useful multi-year exercise for me to try and approach things with that mindset...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Tedx]

Sadly, I think a lot of those values have disappeared now.

People have a right to heat their house to Mediterranean, people have a right to drive unfeasibly large cars, people have a right to buy loads of new clothes, people have a right to fill their shopping trollies with a mountain of food, some of which will never be eaten. And many folk exercise their rights regardless of the cost.

Luckily, this is one aspect of capitalism that is really effective. The government doesn't even have to legislate, it just let's the market do it's job.

I am reminded of a Daily Mash post (I think) where they commented on all these idiots that followed the 'Grand Designs' housebuilding methodology where they would have huge 'open plan' areas with 'double height ceilings', 'marble finishes' and, as Kevin would say, 'wall's of gloss (glass)'. All that might be ok when energy is cheap or if you live in Californi-ay, but in the UK?

Then the Russkis turned off the pipe marked 'Cheapo gas' and the morons suffered in their icy tombs.

[UncleEbenezer]

Ever since I became a home-owner I've considered the idea of food waste to almost be a cardinal sin.

Erm ... I'm confused.

Can you explain (for the slow among us) the connection between home ownership and food waste?

[Itsallaguess]

Ever since I became a home-owner I've considered the idea of food waste to almost be a cardinal sin.

Erm ... I'm confused.

Can you explain (for the slow among us) the connection between home ownership and food waste?

You can read it as 'ever since I moved out of my parents house', if that helps?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[UncleEbenezer]

Erm ... I'm confused.

Can you explain (for the slow among us) the connection between home ownership and food waste?

You can read it as 'ever since I moved out of my parents house', if that helps?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Heh. How the other half live!

I blame the forty years between moving out of my parental home and owning my own house for not seeing that!

[Lootman]

I am reminded of a Daily Mash post (I think) where they commented on all these idiots that followed the 'Grand Designs' housebuilding methodology where they would have huge 'open plan' areas with 'double height ceilings', 'marble finishes' and, as Kevin would say, 'wall's of gloss (glass)'. All that might be ok when energy is cheap or if you live in Californi-ay, but in the UK?

In California you need to run air conditioning for half the year. As a result power cuts are more common in the summer than in the winter. Power consumption is at its highest on hot days, not cold days.

Then again energy is much cheaper in the US because of fracking, which we do not do. Not to mention petrol at only a pound a litre, or less.

[Tedx]

I am reminded of a Daily Mash post (I think) where they commented on all these idiots that followed the 'Grand Designs' housebuilding methodology where they would have huge 'open plan' areas with 'double height ceilings', 'marble finishes' and, as Kevin would say, 'wall's of gloss (glass)'. All that might be ok when energy is cheap or if you live in Californi-ay, but in the UK?

In California you need to run air conditioning for half the year. As a result power cuts are more common in the summer than in the winter. Power consumption is at its highest on hot days, not cold days.

Then again energy is much cheaper in the US because of fracking, which we do not do. Not to mention petrol at only a pound a litre, or less.

Aye, but aircon is still a 'want' not a 'need'. They build their houses all wrong. In rural Spain/Portugal/Greece for example they build small, whitewashed houses using materials that keep things cool (I'm not a housebuilder, so I dont know the exact terminology). They find ways of funneling cool air into the house. Most of the time, these small houses are perfectly comfortable without aircon.

[UncleEbenezer]

Aye, but aircon is still a 'want' not a 'need'. They build their houses all wrong. In rural Spain/Portugal/Greece for example they build small, whitewashed houses using materials that keep things cool (I'm not a housebuilder, so I dont know the exact terminology). They find ways of funneling cool air into the house. Most of the time, these small houses are perfectly comfortable without aircon.

FSVO comfortable. And with lifestyle-adaptation, like the siesta through the hottest hours.

Just as a cottage in Blighty is comfortable all our very-maritime year, with neither heating nor aircond required.

[Tedx]

A “ground-breaking” hydrogen project in Kintore, which could create hundreds of jobs, has taken another step forward.

Statera Enegry, the firm behind the Aberdeenshire project, has now awarded a front end engineering and design (FEED) contract to Australian firm Worley.

The project is set to be the largest green hydrogen port in Europe once operational.

The contract is for the first phase of its three gigawatts (GW) Kintore Hydrogen project, which is expected to create hundreds of jobs.

Kintore Hydrogen could produce the equivalent to 30% of the UK’s 2030 target of 10 GW of low-carbon hydrogen.

It goes on to say:

The full three GW of production is expected to be online by the 2030s.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/bu ... gy-worley/

[DrFfybes]

I keep 12 month rolling average gas and electricity usage as well.

[...]

Compared to 4 years ago, I have now got solar panels, a heat-pump powered aircon unit, an EV + home charger, more loft insulation, under-floor insulation and new cavity wall insulation.

FD

So, just a few changes then

FWIW replacing our 1980s Glow worm boiler with a modern Vaillant in July 2022 seems to have reduced or annual gas from about 27,000 to 14,500 kWh, although last winter was a lot warmer.

As we've recently gone Solar and battery then electricity costs are not easy to predict, although use has stayed about the same. We are moving towards air-to-air and away from gas in a few rooms though.

People have a right to heat their house to Mediterranean,

My niece is getting a 100% GRANT from the Welsh Govt to get them off oil. Both relatively low earners, old rural farmhouse, 2 children. They get 2 x 10kW heat pumps with new pipework and rads, about 6kW solar panel system (no battery), loft insulation (turns out there is none in part of the house, as there was also no loft hatch!), and 2 old solid walls get internally insulated. She asked for the projections and the bills were huge - until I pointed out they're modelling she'll use 40,000 kWh for heat and 5000 kWh for hot water each year. Currently heat and hot water are from oil, they use about 1100L a year, which is about 12,000 kWh.

I suggested they assumed they heat their home like 'normal' people, whereas their house is like ours and tends to hover around 12-16C in Winter except for in the room we're sat in.

Paul

[scotview]

I suggested they assumed they heat their home like 'normal' people, whereas their house is like ours and tends to hover around 12-16C in Winter except for in the room we're sat in.

Paul

What a great point Paul.

That may be one of the weak links in the push for green home heating. There will be huge backlash from the public if innovative heating, like heat pumps, actually cannot heat homes to the levels and responsiveness that the majority have come to expect.

[88V8]

I suggested they assumed they heat their home like 'normal' people, whereas their house is like ours and tends to hover around 12-16C in Winter except for in the room we're sat in.

There will be huge backlash from the public if innovative heating, like heat pumps, actually cannot heat homes to the levels and responsiveness that the majority have come to expect.

Yes, it's quite depressing, walking around the burbs after dark, the number of houses with no curtains, the occupants in shirtsleeves. Wasteful...
We heat to 63F+/- and wear a woolly, and two pairs of socks.

Today, Ovo told me they were reducing my DD... I shall put it back up again. They pay me 5% tax free on balances, too good to miss

V8

[Tedx]

I suggested they assumed they heat their home like 'normal' people, whereas their house is like ours and tends to hover around 12-16C in Winter except for in the room we're sat in.

Paul

What a great point Paul.

That may be one of the weak links in the push for green home heating. There will be huge backlash from the public if innovative heating, like heat pumps, actually cannot heat homes to the levels and responsiveness that the majority have come to expect.

Have you been mis-sold a heat pump.....?

[UncleEbenezer]

What a great point Paul.

That may be one of the weak links in the push for green home heating. There will be huge backlash from the public if innovative heating, like heat pumps, actually cannot heat homes to the levels and responsiveness that the majority have come to expect.

Have you been mis-sold a heat pump.....?

One has to wonder if there's anything going on analogous to those early CFL lightbulbs that gave "low energy" lighting a bad name.

[servodude]

Have you been mis-sold a heat pump.....?

One has to wonder if there's anything going on analogous to those early CFL lightbulbs that gave "low energy" lighting a bad name.

possibly - it does seem as though there's folk pushing "words" about and there might be disconnections in meaning or connotations depending on who is listening

I think CFL globes were a pretty new (or niche) idea, pushed on the market in the absence of any suitable alternative at the time... and were utterly underwhelming (but probably better than the weird halogen low power globes that were hulluva complicated to manufacture for the terrible saving they gave like this .... https://www.micalighting.com.au/gls-42w-60w-e27-halogen-energy-saver-lamp-240v-globe.html)

Heat pumps on the other hand, are not a new idea, and they do what they are meant to very well... but it would be entirely possible to put the wrong thing in the wrong place and arrive at a whole bucket of disappointment.

That said it's really strange to see lack of "responsiveness" listed as a feature when I believe there are still some poor souls dealing with stuff like white meter storage heaters ("what's that... you're cold? - right slide that thing to 4 and wait till tomorrow morning. No! Don't touch the turbo button")
- air to air heat pumps warm, or cool, or dehumidify a room about as quick as you possibly can (or more correctly change the temp of the air really quickly) and as such we find we only need to run them when we need to run them (you don't need to plan ahead)

What you shouldn't do is tell folk they can replace their oil boiler with an ASHP and expect to get the same temperature of water out

[DrFfybes]

Yes, it's quite depressing, walking around the burbs after dark, the number of houses with no curtains, the occupants in shirtsleeves. Wasteful...
We heat to 63F+/- and wear a woolly, and two pairs of socks.

Today, Ovo told me they were reducing my DD... I shall put it back up again. They pay me 5% tax free on balances, too good to miss

V8

Yes it's quite depressing, cruising around the countryside in my Nissan Leaf, seeing all those people pouring carcinogenetic particulates out of their chimneys, driving old gas guzzling V8 dinosaurs spewing out NOX and CO2...

Today I was paid for turning my stat on my heat pump down to 63 from the usual nice comfy 68 for the peak hours, seemed too good to miss.

You pays your money, you takes your choice

[UncleEbenezer]

Yes, it's quite depressing, walking around the burbs after dark, the number of houses with no curtains, the occupants in shirtsleeves. Wasteful...
We heat to 63F+/- and wear a woolly, and two pairs of socks.

Today, Ovo told me they were reducing my DD... I shall put it back up again. They pay me 5% tax free on balances, too good to miss

V8

'ang on. That's 17 degrees. Shirtsleeve temperature! And what we're now saying goodbye to for the next several months!

[88V8]

We heat to 63F+/- and wear a woolly, and two pairs of socks.

'ang on. That's 17 degrees. Shirtsleeve temperature! And what we're now saying goodbye to for the next several months!

Shirtsleeves? Well, speaking as a soft southerner....

V8