Energy costs. Oh dear.......

[servodude]

'ang on. That's 17 degrees. Shirtsleeve temperature! And what we're now saying goodbye to for the next several months!

Shirtsleeves? Well, speaking as a soft southerner....

V8

You guys are wearing shirts in your baths?

[JohnB]

Grand Designs featured many Eco houses, with innovative insulation schemes, heat stores, and architectural features to catch winter sun and repel midsummer sun. Many were built to tight budgets for sensible people. The problem is that all found that doing a self build is really hard work, all the decisions and the costs always wanting to balloon.

Which is why the rest of us accept estate built houses, where the builders don't have a real incentive for energy efficiency, and recent govenments have provided lousy regulation, and would rather subsidise bills than provide insulation grants

[88V8]

...recent governments have provided lousy regulation, and would rather subsidise bills than provide insulation grants

Not only recent.
Prescott - remember him - talked up a regulation anent house extensions, requiring that an equivalent footage of the existing house be insulated to X standard. But then backed away from implementing it because 'some people couldn't afford it' or some such.

V8

[servodude]

...recent governments have provided lousy regulation, and would rather subsidise bills than provide insulation grants

Not only recent.
Prescott - remember him - talked up a regulation anent house extensions, requiring that an equivalent footage of the existing house be insulated to X standard. But then backed away from implementing it because 'some people couldn't afford it' or some such.

V8

I had a friend renovating a listed place near Stirling in that era.
The regs were insanely applied.
Based on the wall material he had chosen they would have passed the insulation "requirements" at the time if they had left the roof off
Don't know if it's any more joined up these days

[swill453]

I had a friend renovating a listed place near Stirling in that era.
The regs were insanely applied.
Based on the wall material he had chosen they would have passed the insulation "requirements" at the time if they had left the roof off
Don't know if it's any more joined up these days

Funnily enough, Stirling Council paid for my roof, cavity wall and under floor insulation earlier this year.

Completely free to me, not means tested, in my privately owned house.

Scott.

[JohnB]

It always seems these schemes are very patchy, either far too generous to individuals, or only accessible to a few by being in a certain postcode or fast fingered when applying. If I ruled the worldUK I'd have trained up insulation engineers and offered first the elderly a more generous insulation grant as an alternative to their winter fuel payment, to compensate them for the hassle of having it done. Once they were snug as bugs in rugs I'd have spread the scheme to the general population. When the fuel crisis struck I'd have accelerated the scheme rather than subsidise fuel bills, as I guess training people to install fibreglass is a lot quicker than instructing them in heat pumps.

[BullDog]

It always seems these schemes are very patchy, either far too generous to individuals, or only accessible to a few by being in a certain postcode or fast fingered when applying. If I ruled the worldUK I'd have trained up insulation engineers and offered first the elderly a more generous insulation grant as an alternative to their winter fuel payment, to compensate them for the hassle of having it done. Once they were snug as bugs in rugs I'd have spread the scheme to the general population. When the fuel crisis struck I'd have accelerated the scheme rather than subsidise fuel bills, as I guess training people to install fibreglass is a lot quicker than instructing them in heat pumps.

Given that an essential prerequisite for a successful heat pump installation anyway is high levels of insulation. It seems to me that the grants available should be for insulation installation, not heat pumps.

Then, once everyone has good insulation there might be a more enthusiastic take up of heat pumps.

As it stands the grants are available £7500 a time for heat pumps. But absolutely zero for increased insulation. I honestly don't know how that makes any sense whatsoever.

Many people are too anxious presently to buy a heat pump installation. I think there might be much less concern about improving insulation to all homes that need it. Follow that with heat pump installations.

[UncleEbenezer]

Funnily enough, Stirling Council paid for my roof, cavity wall and under floor insulation earlier this year.

Completely free to me, not means tested, in my privately owned house.

Scott.

OK, I'll bite.

Is that a freebie available to everyone within the area managed by Stirling council? If not, how did you qualify?

[swill453]

OK, I'll bite.

Is that a freebie available to everyone within the area managed by Stirling council? If not, how did you qualify?

I think it was available to anyone on a first come first served basis. The "man at the council" said that they had allocated a proportion of their "green" fund for this. I found out who to call by word of mouth, I didn't see it advertised anywhere. Though I did see it talked about on the local Facebook group later in the year.

They seem to do a fair bit of this sort of stuff. Just about every council house in the area (and there are still quite a lot) has had solar panels fitted.

Scott.

[UncleEbenezer]

I found out who to call by word of mouth, I didn't see it advertised anywhere.

So it's very much a case of who you know.

Hmmm ... the Rotary club were out in the square recently, and some god-botherers just this morning. I wonder what benefits joining any of those groups might bring?

[James]

Hmmm ... the Rotary club were out in the square recently, and some god-botherers just this morning. I wonder what benefits joining any of those groups might bring?

Do gooders and God doers... I'd walk on by.

[Dicky99]

It always seems these schemes are very patchy, either far too generous to individuals, or only accessible to a few by being in a certain postcode or fast fingered when applying. If I ruled the worldUK I'd have trained up insulation engineers and offered first the elderly a more generous insulation grant as an alternative to their winter fuel payment, to compensate them for the hassle of having it done. Once they were snug as bugs in rugs I'd have spread the scheme to the general population. When the fuel crisis struck I'd have accelerated the scheme rather than subsidise fuel bills, as I guess training people to install fibreglass is a lot quicker than instructing them in heat pumps.

Given that an essential prerequisite for a successful heat pump installation anyway is high levels of insulation. It seems to me that the grants available should be for insulation installation, not heat pumps.

Then, once everyone has good insulation there might be a more enthusiastic take up of heat pumps.

As it stands the grants are available £7500 a time for heat pumps. But absolutely zero for increased insulation. I honestly don't know how that makes any sense whatsoever.

Many people are too anxious presently to buy a heat pump installation. I think there might be much less concern about improving insulation to all homes that need it. Follow that with heat pump installations.

If you already have double glazed windows, good levels of loft insulation and cavity fill for those with cavities, which have mostly been done as quick wins these days, the next level of insulation measures, which would be insulating external solid walls and ground floors, are fraught with cost and practical implications.

[scotview]

So it's very much a case of who you know.

I bet all the council workers knew.

[Mike4]

I can foresee a problem with heat pumps.

Given they are insanely expensive and by nature have to be installed outside, do many get nicked? If not, I'd suggest it's only because thieving scrotes haven't thought of it yet.

Wake up in the morning and think the house feels unusually cool? Oh bugger the pipes have been cut and heat pump nicked in the night!

[daveh]

Grand Designs featured many Eco houses, with innovative insulation schemes, heat stores, and architectural features to catch winter sun and repel midsummer sun. Many were built to tight budgets for sensible people. The problem is that all found that doing a self build is really hard work, all the decisions and the costs always wanting to balloon.

Which is why the rest of us accept estate built houses, where the builders don't have a real incentive for energy efficiency, and recent govenments have provided lousy regulation, and would rather subsidise bills than provide insulation grants

Or you could self build where you get a builder to build you the eco house. I know a small builder in Scotland who builds individual houses to Passif House standards, beautiful and interesting designs each one different Cairn Rowan Homes.

[scotview]

We have recently changed two of our heating zones from Heatmiser to Hive. So far it seems to be a good system.


Attached is a chart, from the HIVE app, of room temperature for the two rooms in question. The Office is pretty well insulated and the TV room has an external wall with minimal insulation and air bricks under the floor. You can see that the TV room temperature decay is quicker than the Office. I'm not convinced that insulating the external wall would result in much of a cost saving/gas reduction but the TV room might be more comfortable. Now if there was a grant of some sort, that would be a different question. I'll monitor this in the coming colder months.

[Dicky99]

We have recently changed two of our heating zones from Heatmiser to Hive. So far it seems to be a good system.


Attached is a chart, from the HIVE app, of room temperature for the two rooms in question. The Office is pretty well insulated and the TV room has an external wall with minimal insulation and air bricks under the floor. You can see that the TV room temperature decay is quicker than the Office. I'm not convinced that insulating the external wall would result in much of a cost saving/gas reduction but the TV room might be more comfortable. Now if there was a grant of some sort, that would be a different question. I'll monitor this in the coming colder months.

All comes down to your delta T though doesn't it. If there's currently a small temperature differential between inside and outside the insulation in the office won't make much difference. When it's -1C outside and 20C inside it certainly will.

[scotview]

I'll monitor this in the coming colder months.

When it's -1C outside and 20C inside it certainly will.

Lets wait and see......the wind drawing away the heat underfloor has a lot to do with it also. Air bricks have a lot to answer for in causing global warming or climate change or whatever. They are far too overdesigned in my book. Greta needs to have a long hard look at air bricks !!

[88V8]

Lets wait and see......the wind drawing away the heat underfloor has a lot to do with it also. Air bricks have a lot to answer for in causing global warming or climate change or whatever. They are far too overdesigned in my book. Greta needs to have a long hard look at air bricks !!

On old house forums a lot of time is spent advising people how to deal with the damp issues arising from insufficient or blocked up air bricks....
A wood floor is a pretty good insulator.

V8

[funduffer]

When it's -1C outside and 20C inside it certainly will.

Lets wait and see......the wind drawing away the heat underfloor has a lot to do with it also. Air bricks have a lot to answer for in causing global warming or climate change or whatever. They are far too overdesigned in my book. Greta needs to have a long hard look at air bricks !!

A good metric is to look at the temperature decay over 5 hours, starting when it is roughly 20C indoors and 0C outdoors. (I.e. a cold winter night at bedtime!)

A temperature drop of 3C over 5 hours shows poor insulation

A temperature drop of 1.5C over 5 hours shows good insulation.

I once saw a map of Europe showing how this metric and the average for the UK was 3C. The best in Europe (Germany I think) was 1.5C.

Useful to keep an eye on if you are trying to improve your insulation.

FD