Face masks

[Arborbridge]

I've been reading this thread with a feeling of despair, disgust and....choose adjective of your choice.

I work in North Italy and we have all watched/ are watching the goings-on in the UK. Who needs a dystopian film on Netflix when you have the real thing? The daily news on Yahoo from the UK beats any plot from EastEnders or Coronation Street.

Down in the real world, we all wear masks, have hand sanitisers in shops, and temperature checks in large shops. You cannot gain entry anywhere without a simple mask. Without a simple mask to stop your snot and cough, you will not be allowed anywhere. Why should we put up with egoistic and stupid prats? Stick to your online ordering, read your tabloid papers (where do the owners live?) and don't come out!

I don't see a problem with that. Wearing a thin mask protects others from your coughs, and using sanitisers will limit any contamination to trolley handles etc.

I no longer read the news from the UK. They have all the data from South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan etc on the one hand, and Brazil, Netherlands and USA on the other.

For the last 5 months!! Yet only now are they talking about masks being obligatory?

What the hell is going on in the UK? Who needs to visit North Korea when you can have the same experience just staying home and watching TV?


Steve

Oh well, it takes all sorts I suppose. It's a wonder we haven't had mask rage incidents with people being set upon in shops for not wearing one and being "disgusting". Of course we will all wear masks if we are advised that we should do so or if the law says so, but whatever you think, the science on wearing masks is not clear - and one certainly cannot say that just because a population wears masks that proves anything at all. That's about as scientific as the joke about throwing pieces of paper out of a train window deterring elephants.

I believe it's a political move the make people believe they are doing something useful with a minimal effect on the infection rate in most circumstances.

Only four days to go before we all look like a bunch of zombies. I wonder if this will encourage people to go to shops more, or will it discourage them? For those who are already nervous - and there are many of them - it probably will only prove who they are right to stay at home. People like the 40 year old who almost pushed past me yesterday without moving to one side (a rare incident where I live, BTW) will just get even closer. Browsers in shops have been so polite at keeping their distance, I just hope they don't think they can now come up right next to me. That's going to be the downside: will the rather genteel shopping experience we've had up to now be changed for the worse?

Arb.

[stevensfo]

I've been reading this thread with a feeling of despair, disgust and....choose adjective of your choice.

I work in North Italy and we have all watched/ are watching the goings-on in the UK. Who needs a dystopian film on Netflix when you have the real thing? The daily news on Yahoo from the UK beats any plot from EastEnders or Coronation Street.

Down in the real world, we all wear masks, have hand sanitisers in shops, and temperature checks in large shops. You cannot gain entry anywhere without a simple mask. Without a simple mask to stop your snot and cough, you will not be allowed anywhere. Why should we put up with egoistic and stupid prats? Stick to your online ordering, read your tabloid papers (where do the owners live?) and don't come out!

I don't see a problem with that. Wearing a thin mask protects others from your coughs, and using sanitisers will limit any contamination to trolley handles etc.

I no longer read the news from the UK. They have all the data from South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan etc on the one hand, and Brazil, Netherlands and USA on the other.

For the last 5 months!! Yet only now are they talking about masks being obligatory?

What the hell is going on in the UK? Who needs to visit North Korea when you can have the same experience just staying home and watching TV?


Steve

Oh well, it takes all sorts I suppose. It's a wonder we haven't had mask rage incidents with people being set upon in shops for not wearing one and being "disgusting". Of course we will all wear masks if we are advised that we should do so or if the law says so, but whatever you think, the science on wearing masks is not clear - and one certainly cannot say that just because a population wears masks that proves anything at all. That's about as scientific as the joke about throwing pieces of paper out of a train window deterring elephants.

I believe it's a political move the make people believe they are doing something useful with a minimal effect on the infection rate in most circumstances.

Only four days to go before we all look like a bunch of zombies. I wonder if this will encourage people to go to shops more, or will it discourage them? For those who are already nervous - and there are many of them - it probably will only prove who they are right to stay at home. People like the 40 year old who almost pushed past me yesterday without moving to one side (a rare incident where I live, BTW) will just get even closer. Browsers in shops have been so polite at keeping their distance, I just hope they don't think they can now come up right next to me. That's going to be the downside: will the rather genteel shopping experience we've had up to now be changed for the worse?

Arb.

Of course we will all wear masks if we are advised that we should do so or if the law says so, but whatever you think, the science on wearing masks is not clear -

So why do surgeons wear masks?

Imagine two people in a shop wearing masks. If one coughs, the mask stops most of the droplets from reaching the other person. The other person is also protected to some degree from inhaling the droplets. If one is infected, the virus will be on the mask, but the chance of it being spread to someone else is much lower.

I can't actually think of many things where the science could be clearer.

Steve

[didds]

It's a wonder we haven't had mask rage incidents with people being set upon in shops for not wearing one and being "disgusting".

Arb.

I know of two cases in the last week of the reverse. Where a non wearer has ripped into a wearer for being "poor diddums might catch a cold", and being a pathetic effing sheep. Etc.

Its basically brexit approach all over again.

didds

[Dod101]

It's a wonder we haven't had mask rage incidents with people being set upon in shops for not wearing one and being "disgusting".

Arb.

I know of two cases in the last week of the reverse. Where a non wearer has ripped into a wearer for being "poor diddums might catch a cold", and being a pathetic effing sheep. Etc.

Its basically brexit approach all over again.

didds

That is just plain ignorance, if true.

Dod

[Arborbridge]

It's a wonder we haven't had mask rage incidents with people being set upon in shops for not wearing one and being "disgusting".

Arb.

I know of two cases in the last week of the reverse. Where a non wearer has ripped into a wearer for being "poor diddums might catch a cold", and being a pathetic effing sheep. Etc.

Its basically brexit approach all over again.

didds

That is awful: absolutely beyond the pale to behave like that. Thankfully, 99% of the people I've seen "in action" in shops or around the places I go to behave with politeness and due consideration of the other person, and what their feelings might be. There's still much fear out there, and we should respect that.
BTW, despite what I've written about wearing masks, I have not hesistated to wear one if some place looks crowded. Luckily, I seem to go to areas where it would be of vanishingly small benefit if one think in terms of viral loading.


Arb

[dealtn]

Of course we will all wear masks if we are advised that we should do so or if the law says so, but whatever you think, the science on wearing masks is not clear -

So why do surgeons wear masks?

Imagine two people in a shop wearing masks. If one coughs, the mask stops most of the droplets from reaching the other person. The other person is also protected to some degree from inhaling the droplets. If one is infected, the virus will be on the mask, but the chance of it being spread to someone else is much lower.

I can't actually think of many things where the science could be clearer.

Steve

Again I think this is well off topic for this Board.

However I agree the Science is clear. A barrier helps.

But it is "Barrier" plus "Behaviour" that makes it effective (or not - or worse) in practice. In you example the Surgeon will have a very good, one use mask, in combination with immaculate hygiene and effective disposal. In the "real world", which you are keen to talk about, you have a mixture of mask types, and a mixture of behaviours, not all of which are good.

That is why the Science is unclear, with Science being the measurement of effective restriction of transmission through the complete process of mask wearing, not just does the material act as a barrier.

(Witnessed an abandoned mask outside a Supermarket only yesterday - and have anecdotally been told of someone discovering a used one in a supermarket trolley - nice unselfish behaviour that one!).

I really wouldn't translate what you hear/see with respect to UK news, be that BBC or non-UK media channels with what is actually occurring in the majority of places either. In the same way "we" shouldn't believe what we think is happening in Italy. By the very nature of the news channels we are being informed of what is "news-worthy" not necessarily what is representative.

[didds]

It's a wonder we haven't had mask rage incidents with people being set upon in shops for not wearing one and being "disgusting".

Arb.

I know of two cases in the last week of the reverse. Where a non wearer has ripped into a wearer for being "poor diddums might catch a cold", and being a pathetic effing sheep. Etc.

Its basically brexit approach all over again.

didds

That is just plain ignorance, if true.

Dod

Not sure why i would have lied about it?

[Dod101]

I know of two cases in the last week of the reverse. Where a non wearer has ripped into a wearer for being "poor diddums might catch a cold", and being a pathetic effing sheep. Etc.

Its basically brexit approach all over again.

didds

That is just plain ignorance, if true.

Dod

Not sure why i would have lied about it?

I am sure you are not making it up but it just seems so unlikely. Did you actually witness it or was it a newspaper report? I am not trying to make an issue out of nothing but if it is true then there is clearly no limit to the ignorance of some people. Why would anyone take the trouble to say that? I am glad that I live where I do.

Dod

[didds]

I am sure you are not making it up but it just seems so unlikely. Did you actually witness it or was it a newspaper report? I am not trying to make an issue out of nothing but if it is true then there is clearly no limit to the ignorance of some people. Why would anyone take the trouble to say that? I am glad that I live where I do.

Dod

witnessed the 2nd one. A friend had the first happen to them - I didn't witness that one but its most unlikely theyd have lied to me



didds

[Dod101]

Thanks didds. Quite incredible. In our local Co op I think most customers do what I do and slip on a mask as they approach the door. It is mandatory for us in Scotland although there is still the odd person without one and no one seems to be uptight about it one way or the other.

Dod

[didds]

Thanks didds. Quite incredible. In our local Co op I think most customers do what I do and slip on a mask as they approach the door. It is mandatory for us in Scotland although there is still the odd person without one and no one seems to be uptight about it one way or the other.

Dod

I know ... very sad. seems to me that at the end of the day its such a minimal "issue" that even if you disagree with the science, except in the most extreme circumstances 99% of the population are hardly placed under any real hassle in conforming. Its not as if (yet?) it HAS to be a medical grade mask - AIUI its face covering only .. I use buffs for example.

[Mike4]

It's a wonder we haven't had mask rage incidents with people being set upon in shops for not wearing one and being "disgusting".

Arb.

I know of two cases in the last week of the reverse. Where a non wearer has ripped into a wearer for being "poor diddums might catch a cold", and being a pathetic effing sheep. Etc.

Its basically brexit approach all over again.

didds

This is doubly distressing, as the mask wearers were wearing their masks for the benefit of their abusers.

[bungeejumper]

I couldn't help but notice the close resemblance between those washable masks people are wearing, and half a bra.

Accordingly, may I suggest that the cheapest way to acquire such accoutrements would be to take a pair of scissors to the wife's lingerie drawer? Yes, people might snigger as I walk down the street with my nose stuffed into a lacy black D cup, but that's their problem, and decidedly not mine.

BJ

[neversay]

I couldn't help but notice the close resemblance between those washable masks people are wearing, and half a bra.

Accordingly, may I suggest that the cheapest way to acquire such accoutrements would be to take a pair of scissors to the wife's lingerie drawer? Yes, people might snigger as I walk down the street with my nose stuffed into a lacy black D cup, but that's their problem, and decidedly not mine.

BJ

Make sure it's the left cup though. Otherwise you will look like a right tit.

[bungeejumper]

Make sure it's the left cup though. Otherwise you will look like a right tit.

I'll keep on delivering them, you keep on slugging them out of the stadium.

BJ

[didds]

Make sure it's the left cup though. Otherwise you will look like a right tit.

Though if it is the other side when you get to the shop you can tell them you left tit at home

didds

[onthemove]

I use a buff/neckwarmer thing that I've always carried in my rucksack for hillwalking. Easy to have round the neck in the street, and simply pull up over mouth and nose when you go in a shop.

I find it has less tendancy to steam up glasses than an actual mask.

Scott.

============================

these are also called SNOODS .

i find them very good .

but would they be officially recognised as a face mask ?

This is what the legislation says...

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/202 ... ion/2/made

2.—(1) In these Regulations— .... “face covering” means a covering of any type which covers a person’s nose and mouth;

In England at least, it is no more specific than that.

So literally anything that covers your nose and mouth.

It says nothing at all about any level of effectiveness re. protection from the virus. No requirement as to how it fits. No requirements on the material. No requirements on the number of layers. No requirement on the material density. No requirements on how close it needs to fit to be considered 'covering'. The only requirement is that whatever it is, it covers your nose and mouth.

As I understand it, this is like the government has been through-out ... their guidelines are not a legal requirement. For example I don't believe the 2m rule was actually ever a legal requirement.

So if you are only worried about having a face covering to avoid a fine - then if it covers your nose and mouth, you're good. You can ignore all that palava about needing to loop round your ears, needing it to be three different materials thick or whatever.

There didn't seem much to choose from, but I really can't bring myself you wear anything that gives the appearance of 'medical' (it just feels dishonest and inappropriate to me for the general public to be wearing items that are usually associated with the wearer being identified as a medical professional and I just don't like the thought of everyday life turning into a living hospital)...

...so I've bought a pack of these ... https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08 ... UTF8&psc=1
... I've not tried them out in a real shop yet as I will only be limiting my high street shops to essentials while this rule is in place, but a quick try on at home and they feel as though they'll probably do the job... if I double it over on the bit sitting on my nose, and don't scrunch it up over my mouth, it feels like it'll probably stay up long enough.

It's a pack of 8, but per item it barely costs more than a single use mask from the prices I've seen, and it's inherently re-useable. Admittedly the edges are just cut and not stitched, so I doubt they'll last _that_ long, but should easily be much cheaper than using disposables. And the pack of 8 provides for a few spares anyway.

I don't normally wear scarves or anything like that, but for those that do, these would still be usable as a neck warmer in winter, so would still have value beyond the face covering regulations.

[UncleEbenezer]

So why do surgeons wear masks?

Perhaps that's for certain parts of a specialist job. As in, when they're cutting open a patient and exposing parts of the interior that would normally be well-protected by the body. Not for everyday use.

Formula 1 drivers wear fireproof suits and crash helmets. Are you going to adopt those for everyday life, too?

[servodude]

Perhaps that's for certain parts of a specialist job. As in, when they're cutting open a patient and exposing parts of the interior that would normally be well-protected by the body. Not for everyday use.

And they're obviously doing that just for giggles, as every real man knows that masks have no effect on transmission in or out of the respiratory tract?

-sd

[Mike4]

So why do surgeons wear masks?

Perhaps that's for certain parts of a specialist job. As in, when they're cutting open a patient and exposing parts of the interior that would normally be well-protected by the body. Not for everyday use.

Well yes, but you swerved the question "WHY?"

Why do surgeons wear a mask when they're cutting open a patient and exposing parts of the interior that would normally be well-protected by the body?

Could it be...

1) To reduce the risk of infection from the breath of the surgeon?

2) Because the surgeons like to look stylish in the theatre?

3) Some other reason?