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Moving to all Electric

Making your money go further
richfool
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386077

Postby richfool » February 12th, 2021, 2:46 pm

Mike4 wrote:
richfool wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
Most flats are electric already. Bt for those with gas heating, switching to an electric combi is cheap and easy. The problem if any, is the reduction in hot water performance of electric combis performance combined with nose-bleed day-to-day running costs.

What government scheme is this then you mention? For converting heating to electric?


But as I see it, rightly or wrongly, currently gas is cheaper than electricity. I can't access cheap electricity by having solar panels. Our radiator system is already installed. So I don't have to pay for installing electric radiators or an electric water heater, nor a hot water tank if using an Economy 7 type tariff. As I understand it, the more recently mentioned heat pump systems (Government initiative) wouldn't work without access to the ground; and the freeholder or indeed us flat owners wouldn't be too keen on any monstrosities sticking through the walls and maybe whirring all night long(?).


Yes but what government initiative is this you mention?

All I can think of is their kite flying in the media telling us gas will be banned in new homes at some point in the future. Hardly a "government scheme" or "heat pump initiative".

I wasn't seeking to identify or debate specific Government Green initiatives, solar subsidies or whatever, (many of which are bandied about in the news), but simply to reflect/act upon the general movement towards green energy and the reduced use of "dirty" fuels, and identify what action I should be thinking of, if I wish to do my bit or anticipate events..

When I read articles in the media and on social media, including on this forum, it leaves me feeling that perhaps I should be ripping out my radiators and gas combi-boiler and installing some sort of all electric system using heat pumps, solar panels or perhaps windmills coming soon (Government's talk about wind power), some of which could be difficult and/or costly as I live in a well insulated mid floor flat.! :? (some or much of which could prove to be counter-productive or more costly based on current gas and electric tariffs).

fisher
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386082

Postby fisher » February 12th, 2021, 2:58 pm

Mike4 wrote:Yes but what government initiative is this you mention?

All I can think of is their kite flying in the media telling us gas will be banned in new homes at some point in the future. Hardly a "government scheme" or "heat pump initiative".


The government initiative covering heat pumps is the Renewable Heat Incentive (see here: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/environmental- ... mestic-rhi)

richlist
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386102

Postby richlist » February 12th, 2021, 3:46 pm

Surely the anticipated outcome is based on the industry experts, engineers and the calculations they provide. You're entitled to disagree with their findings and dispute their figures but the rest of us would normally rely on the science.

richlist
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386121

Postby richlist » February 12th, 2021, 4:41 pm

But large infrastructure projects such as this and road, rail & bridge building etc often use life expectancy as part of the overall package to determine their viability so, there is no difference between this and other projects.

As for a future pandemic.... our Gov' would be all over that like a rash, they wouldn't allow it to impact everyday life let alone renewable energy production !
Last edited by richlist on February 12th, 2021, 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

scotview
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386122

Postby scotview » February 12th, 2021, 4:43 pm

I've had a look at our annual fuel bill for combined electricity and gas. It works out as follows:
Electricity 3617 kWh @ 17.25p = £624
Gas 19338 kWh@ 3.355p = £649
Total 22955kWh = £1273

Now lets assume I go fully electric and enjoy the same degree of flexibility and quality of home heating as I have now, my new energy bill would probably look like:

Electricity 22955kWh@ 17.25 = £3959

That's a three fold increase in cost. The only things that can change are unit cost or kWh used. Your observations are most welcome.

taken2often
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386154

Postby taken2often » February 12th, 2021, 6:35 pm

Another reply has disappeared. Someone does not like me

dspp
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386432

Postby dspp » February 13th, 2021, 3:12 pm

taken2often wrote:Another reply has disappeared. Someone does not like me


Whatever happened did not make it to the TLF servers. I can see no moderation activity. I suggest if you are typing up a long post that you make a copy on a scratchpad before hitting the send button.

regards, dspp

Mike4
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386434

Postby Mike4 » February 13th, 2021, 3:16 pm

dspp wrote:
taken2often wrote:Another reply has disappeared. Someone does not like me


Whatever happened did not make it to the TLF servers. I can see no moderation activity. I suggest if you are typing up a long post that you make a copy on a scratchpad before hitting the send button.

regards, dspp


Its probably that issue again of someone else posting while you type your post, then when you press "Submit" you expect your post to be posted (not unreasonably). But the board software rejected it, demanding you review your post in the light of other posts made since you started typing it and you didn't notice the rejection.

This is I suspect, what led to johnhemming leaving the site.

taken2often
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386440

Postby taken2often » February 13th, 2021, 4:02 pm

You may right although it was not a long reply. To moderate there needs to be a breaking of the guide lines, perhaps cancellation has no trail.

I cannot remember exactly what I wrote, but in general it was about Hydrogen as the main source to replace gas. The main reason was that it would keep the pipe network intact and working. Initially with a natural gas and hydrogen mix. This may have been the offending statement. When the environmental bubble bursts, due to potential blackout and unreliable energy supply, the gas can be switched on again. All it would need is a cold dark spell for a touch of reality. I understand this has started in California. Power lines down to fire, closed power stations. To Green to quick.

A mix of energy, pace of technology and patients will come to the right balance. The Americans have a great saying " Virtue Signalling " Look at me I want to be the first and the best. Cost who cares about cost. Hard on the working poor, who cares about them. Its for their own good. Hard today good tomorrow. Is that not a religious concept.

swill453
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386448

Postby swill453 » February 13th, 2021, 4:23 pm

taken2often wrote:You may right although it was not a long reply. To moderate there needs to be a breaking of the guide lines, perhaps cancellation has no trail.

I cannot remember exactly what I wrote, but in general it was about Hydrogen as the main source to replace gas. The main reason was that it would keep the pipe network intact and working. Initially with a natural gas and hydrogen mix. This may have been the offending statement.

Your post which discusses gas and hydrogen mix is here viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27691&start=100#p385736

Paranoia?

Scott.

taken2often
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386507

Postby taken2often » February 13th, 2021, 10:03 pm

Scott you are missing the point. Boiler conversions are on the way. New Hydrogen boilers are being tested just now. The supply of hydrogen is the problem at the moment. In due course where ever electricity is being produced there will be Hydrogen Plants to use the excess which would help to cure the storage problem. There is a company who have been working on containerised units for quite a few years now, using a much cheaper process.
The point is that only Hydrogen could use the Pipe Grid.

Anyway when has government been interested in efficiency.

Paranoia you could be right, it just seems that where I may have made some negative points about the long term effects of the new religion these seem to disappear. I may also be that I have made some mistake. The BBC now do not allow any serious discussion on climate change why not here.

You are right perhaps there is an algorithm that targets known sceptics , trigger words there gone. Na only Facebook and Youtube do that

Bob

swill453
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386509

Postby swill453 » February 13th, 2021, 10:09 pm

taken2often wrote:Scott you are missing the point.

Not missing the point in the slightest. You were alleging that your post had been "cancelled" because of some point you'd made.

It hadn't.

Simple as that.

If you can't leave it at that, then what can one presume?

Scott.

malakoffee
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386606

Postby malakoffee » February 14th, 2021, 11:20 am

Regarding the "losing" of posts in PHPBB ( the software for this bulletin board ).

My experience on another PHPBB forum was a consistent / ongoing "failure-to-post" about 50% of the time.

I mean I would click the SUBMIT button then check that the post was attached to the ongoing topic.

- Definitely the SUBMIT button ( not the PREVIEW . . . but I've done that often enough ! )
- About 50% failure rate
- I have no idea why and have no clear diagnostic path to resolve.
- Other forum users used to occasionally complain about it, but I assume just got used to it, as I did.

The recovery method ( for me ) was to go BACK in the browser - to the text page - and click SUBMIT again. I would refresh the topic again to check that the post had really posted.
This always seemed to work.

My Theory :
The database behind PHPBB < I forget the name > is a bit of a noddy one compared with real-world, commercial / mission critical ones.
It's transaction integrity might be a bit lacking . . .

88V8
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386627

Postby 88V8 » February 14th, 2021, 12:07 pm

I rarely lose posts. But it is my invariable habit to copy my post into the Paste buffer before previewing or submitting it.
On this or any other forum.
It takes less than a second to safeguard something that one may have spent half an hour writing.

Occasionally the mods delete one of my posts. Usually fair enough.
One vanished overnight. Shrug.

richlist wrote:Surely the anticipated outcome is based on the industry experts, engineers and the calculations they provide. You're entitled to disagree with their findings and dispute their figures but the rest of us would normally rely on the science.


Haha. The calculations. I used to be involved in the insurance of major projects. None ever came in to time or cost. Double the time double the cost was nothing unusual.
Indeed, contractors often underbid to get their feet under the table, knowing that they will make their profits on variation orders and overruns.

Construction is not a science. Building is not a science.

The only way to guarantee no cost overrun would be a fixed price contract, and if it were truly fixed no one would bid.
The idiot politicians who commit our exchequer to vanity projects are rarely in post to count the true cost.

V8

taken2often
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386659

Postby taken2often » February 14th, 2021, 2:02 pm

Hi Scott you would not know. The whole point of machine driven systems is to conceal, and deny nosy people like you from the truth. just kidding.

You are a spoil sport denying me a a good conspiracy theory.

dspp
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386673

Postby dspp » February 14th, 2021, 3:09 pm

taken2often wrote:
Paranoia you could be right, it just seems that where I may have made some negative points about the long term effects of the new religion these seem to disappear. I may also be that I have made some mistake. The BBC now do not allow any serious discussion on climate change why not here.

Bob


Moderator Message:
All

1. I can assure you that there has been no Moderation of any of such posts on these subjects that I can see.

2. Given the issues some Users seem to frequently experience, I suggest they please make a copy of their posts as they write them and file it in case they need to repost. The most likely reasons for needing to repost are due to users either ignoring the "someone else has written this post since you started writing yours" warning that then requires a click-through; or the user losing their internet connection. If Users make a copy in this way they can easily fix the error if it occurs.

3. Mods only Moderate a post if it breaches the TLF Ts & Cs. Even then Moderation can result in editing, or relocating a post, rather than complete removal. And complete removal does leave a trace (at least if I do it that is the case).

4. Now, can I remind everyone that posting about Moderation is not permitted on most boards, this included. If anyone has a problem with Moderation then take it elsewhere (Room 101 is reserved for that viewforum.php?f=91 ) and/or send a PM to a Moderator to ask for help. You will find that Mods are ordinarily very helpful. Given that I am taking time to make this point, please note that any posts discussing Moderation are liable for instant and complete removal, i.e. this is not an invitation for a public ding-dong.

5. Lastly it is plain rude to suggest that Moderators engage in censorship based on anything other than what is written in the TLF Ts & Cs. I can assure you that Moderators do not do that. if you think otherwise then please see my point 4.

regards,
dspp

taken2often
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386756

Postby taken2often » February 14th, 2021, 10:41 pm

Hi sorry i woke you up. I had got round to more machine led than human. Twitter zapped all comments about Hunter Biden before the election, then any comment about election fraud. That was all machine driven, young people in the back room who have the power.

Any thought that I may have had would be impossible to prove, so its of no importance.

Bob

Mike4
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#386767

Postby Mike4 » February 14th, 2021, 11:10 pm

taken2often wrote:Hi sorry i woke you up. I had got round to more machine led than human. Twitter zapped all comments about Hunter Biden before the election, then any comment about election fraud. That was all machine driven, young people in the back room who have the power.

Any thought that I may have had would be impossible to prove, so its of no importance.

Bob


I really don't think you have the measure of this site yet.

It is nothing like twitter or facebook. It is run by real people, a lot of whom have met each other in real life.

Now please stop all this stupidity about comments being zapped for being unacceptable. Posts are deleted for breaching forum rules sometimes, but only if someone reports them, and then only if mod agrees a rule has been breached. You agreed to all this when you registered.

GoSeigen
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#387126

Postby GoSeigen » February 16th, 2021, 5:45 am

Mike4 wrote:
taken2often wrote:Hi sorry i woke you up. I had got round to more machine led than human. Twitter zapped all comments about Hunter Biden before the election, then any comment about election fraud. That was all machine driven, young people in the back room who have the power.

Any thought that I may have had would be impossible to prove, so its of no importance.

Bob


I really don't think you have the measure of this site yet.

It is nothing like twitter or facebook. It is run by real people, a lot of whom have met each other in real life.

Now please stop all this stupidity about comments being zapped for being unacceptable. Posts are deleted for breaching forum rules sometimes, but only if someone reports them, and then only if mod agrees a rule has been breached. You agreed to all this when you registered.


This bit is not true, Mods often take their own initiative to delete posts or edit them. You are maybe thinking that TMF practices still apply?

GS

airbus330
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Re: Moving to all Electric

#387202

Postby airbus330 » February 16th, 2021, 2:47 pm

WRT earlier comments about the Swansea Tidal Lagoon. This project is currently dead in the water (no pun intended!) and has been superseded by the rather more glamorous Dragon Island. I'd say it has about as much chance of happening as actually spotting its namesake flying over the Black Mountains. However, they are looking for seed money from investors. :lol:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53224180


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