Gas and Electricty

[staffordian]

Staffordian - I've reduced the DD already.

Sorry, I waffled but my point was more that I was wondering, talking to neighbours, what the electric companies are going to do next, price wise. I have been told there are no alternative tariffs. I think a one price fixed tariff is coming soon.

There's talk of 4 smaller energy companies going bust, I don't recall where I heard it though.

I doubt there will be much choice of suppliers once the current crisis has played out, but I'm not sure what you mean about there being no alternative tariffs.

I'd be surprised if each company were to only offer a single tariff each. Those serious about attracting customers will want to offer at least a token choice; at the very least a fixed as well as a variable option, and possibly (or am I being too cynical here?) an overpriced "green" tariff.

[pje16]

I solve the monthly overpayment problem by paying quarterly in arrears as I have done all my life. Why do people give electricity companies more money than they need to?
Dod

You often get cheaper tariffs paying by DD
And if you are in significant credit - easy, ask for it back
My DD was reduced this year by a few pounds by Shell as I was 2paying more than I needed to, I was £3 in credit at the time

[staffordian]

I solve the monthly overpayment problem by paying quarterly in arrears as I have done all my life. Why do people give electricity companies more money than they need to?
Dod

You often get cheaper tariffs paying by DD
And if you are in significant credit - easy, ask for it back
My DD was reduced this year by a few pounds by Shell as I was 2paying more than I needed to, I was £3 in credit at the time

It is, of course, possible to pay quarterly in arrears by direct debit, so the two options should not be mutually exclusive, but Ive never seen this offered when looking at tariffs.

Presumably because it's not in the suppliers' interest to offer it when they can take a fixed monthly sum from their customers and build up a cash pile with it.

[pje16]

https://www.uswitch.com/gas-electricity ... ect-debit/
Not always but often
Always look into the deal you are about to sign up for

[AJC5001]

From the BBC

UK energy company seeks funds to stay afloat

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58619418

Anybody else with Bulb?

Adrian

[airbus330]

I solve the monthly overpayment problem by paying quarterly in arrears as I have done all my life. Why do people give electricity companies more money than they need to?

Dod

The answer is really simple, you get the cheapest tariff by paying by DD. You can muck around and do separate Gas/elec suppliers and on the odd occasion it works out cheaper than dual fuel, but rarely.

"Slightly tongue in cheek that is the cost of going to the cheapest supplier. Nothing changes. The supplier of last resort probably does not even want the hassle so why should they help?

Dod"

The SOLR doesn't have a choice, thats the way the energy market works in the UK by law. As far as using the cheapest provider is concerned, I have been doing the utility shuffle for years and it has saved, with no exaggeration, thousands of £ for an hours work every January. Tongue in cheek, if you have money to burn, carry on as you are! I've been with most of the big utilities and some of the small ones, you surely get no better service with the larger ones (honorable mention to OVO, who were unusually good and paid interest on your overpayment). I guess its a calculated risk of the inconvenience of the utility folding, so I'm not grumbling about that, rather the way the energy market is set up so that small utilities can set themselves up to fail. It'll all work out in the end.Hey ho!

[Nimrod103]

From the BBC

UK energy company seeks funds to stay afloat

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58619418

Anybody else with Bulb?

Adrian

I was with Bulb but have been with Green for the last 9 months. It looks like they are expecting to go bust as well:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... l-for-help

[airbus330]

From the BBC

UK energy company seeks funds to stay afloat

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58619418

Anybody else with Bulb?

Adrian

I was with Bulb but have been with Green for the last 9 months. It looks like they are expecting to go bust as well:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... l-for-help

CEO's of Green and Optimus on R4 Today a moment ago. Green CEO said he did not expect the firm to survive the Winter, Optimus CEO seemed to have little sympathy!

[AF62]

From the BBC

UK energy company seeks funds to stay afloat

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58619418

Anybody else with Bulb?

Adrian

I was with Bulb but have been with Green for the last 9 months. It looks like they are expecting to go bust as well:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... l-for-help

CEO's of Green and Optimus on R4 Today a moment ago. Green CEO said he did not expect the firm to survive the Winter, Optimus CEO seemed to have little sympathy!

Something I heard today and which may point to why the government is looking to prop these failing companies up rather than go through the SOLR route, is not only would the largest energy companies struggle with the logistics of taking on millions of customers from these failing firms, doing so would cause them financial problems as well.

I was aware that a Supplier of Last Resort (SOLR) taking on customers from a failed company doesn't have to honour the tariff the customer from the failing company was on and can put the 'inherited' customer onto a new tariff, but what I was not aware of was that this new tariff cannot be one that is higher than the 'default price' which is subject to the Ofgem price cap.

The problem is the sudden spike in the level of the wholesale market price means the retail 'default price' is below that and anyone selling at the 'default price' would lose money, and the Ofgem schedule for when the price cap and default price is to be reviewed is not until next April. Would anyone want to take on a few million customers that would lose them money for six months?

[pje16]

No wonder so many are going bust if there are DIY instructions on the internet
with an opening gambit of
Entering the retail energy market is perhaps not as complicated as you might think
https://www.dyballassociates.co.uk/how- ... gy-company

[barchid]

pje
Certainly an illuminating link !
I was with Yorkshire, pushed onto Scottish in December & my account was, tbh, settled promptly. I moved to Shell on a fixed deal till Spring 2022.
Hopefully by then the market will have settled down but I don't think I will be looking at a smaller operator in a hurry for my next deal, they must be toast now & yet Yorkshire gave excellent service.
A sad end to true competition in the energy market.

[Nimrod103]

I was with Bulb but have been with Green for the last 9 months. It looks like they are expecting to go bust as well:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... l-for-help

CEO's of Green and Optimus on R4 Today a moment ago. Green CEO said he did not expect the firm to survive the Winter, Optimus CEO seemed to have little sympathy!

Something I heard today and which may point to why the government is looking to prop these failing companies up rather than go through the SOLR route, is not only would the largest energy companies struggle with the logistics of taking on millions of customers from these failing firms, doing so would cause them financial problems as well.

I was aware that a Supplier of Last Resort (SOLR) taking on customers from a failed company doesn't have to honour the tariff the customer from the failing company was on and can put the 'inherited' customer onto a new tariff, but what I was not aware of was that this new tariff cannot be one that is higher than the 'default price' which is subject to the Ofgem price cap.

The problem is the sudden spike in the level of the wholesale market price means the retail 'default price' is below that and anyone selling at the 'default price' would lose money, and the Ofgem schedule for when the price cap and default price is to be reviewed is not until next April. Would anyone want to take on a few million customers that would lose them money for six months?

Quite.
My contract with Green is for a fixed price (which now seems very low) contract running until Feb 22. However, I presume that Green had hedged this contract so they should not be losing money on it.

I assume where the companies are losing money is on the variable price contracts where there is a Govt cap which is now below the market price. But this will apply to all energy companies, large and small. It is just that the small ones can't afford a Winter of losses until perhaps the market sorts itself out next year.

[pje16]

pje
Certainly an illuminating link !
I was with Yorkshire, pushed onto Scottish in December & my account was, tbh, settled promptly. I moved to Shell on a fixed deal till Spring 2022.
Hopefully by then the market will have settled down but I don't think I will be looking at a smaller operator in a hurry for my next deal, they must be toast now & yet Yorkshire gave excellent service.
A sad end to true competition in the energy market.

Thanks @barchid
I too am with Shell but mine is until Jan 2022
so I hope the current "crisis" is over by then, but I do expect to move as Shell have already tripled the daily charge

[6Tricia]

Last week I 'signed' a new 2 year contract with OVO to commence 26 September. I did some research first but found nothing better to make a switch worth it even though the DD will rise from £44 to £74 monthly. Looking at the headline news since then I don't think I made a bad decision!

If I find that my usage is lower than the estimate I can always reduce the DD online.

Tricia

[staffordian]

If I find that my usage is lower than the estimate I can always reduce the DD online.

Tricia

Or increase it...

Isn't it OVO who pay interest on credit balances?

[swill453]

Isn't it OVO who pay interest on credit balances?

Igloo do, 3%.

Scott.

[AF62]

My contract with Green is for a fixed price (which now seems very low) contract running until Feb 22. However, I presume that Green had hedged this contract so they should not be losing money on it.

I assume where the companies are losing money is on the variable price contracts where there is a Govt cap which is now below the market price. But this will apply to all energy companies, large and small. It is just that the small ones can't afford a Winter of losses until perhaps the market sorts itself out next year.

Given that the government cap is a known factor which has been in existence for some years then if an energy company had hedged for a fixed price contract then I would have expected that energy companies would have hedged against the price cap. If anything hedging for a variable tariff with a cap ought to be easier and possibly cheaper than hedging for a fixed price tariff as at least you do have some ability to increase the variable tariff.

The issue seems to be that some companies either hadn't hedged at all or not sufficiently - and in a sense you can see why. Start a business as an Ofgem licenced energy company for as little as £450 and if things go well and your predictions on energy prices were right then the profits roll in, and if they are wrong - well so what, Ofgem will step in and move the customers on and the company directors walk away without any debts to try again another day.

[bruncher]

Yes, just had a lengthy email from them which I've not yet had chance to read and digest. Not been in this situation before.

Presumably whoever takes over can charge whatever they choose, but we then have the option to move away?

AIUI, our credit is safe, and will be transferred to the new supplier, and we should not attempt a transfer in the interim, but wait until after the enforced move.

Is that correct?

TIA

Staffordian

I was in this situation a couple of years ago. I was told to do nothing, then I was transferred to Octopus, on their standard variable tariff. It was possible to switch tariff.

I left Octopus three months ago, perhaps I'll be sent back.

Can you recall the sort of timescale involved?

Are we talking days, weeks or months before a transfer?

Just thinking that any gas or electricity used between now and then is at an unknown, but doubtless far more expensive price...

I heard today that I've been passed to EDF. Maybe at least I will have juice, since I assume they get priority supply from the home country.

[SteMiS]

CompareTheMarket have 'temporarily' suspended energy comparisons

https://cdn2.comparethemarket.com/marke ... index.html

We're temporarily pausing our energy comparison as energy suppliers are currently restricting the number of tariffs available.

[bruncher]

Hasn't the entire privatisation exercise been a waste of everyone's time? Well regulated monopolies would have saved us all this hassle.