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What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 10th, 2021, 2:45 pm
by scotview
Could someone explain what "fuel poverty" is ?
Many thanks.
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 10th, 2021, 3:24 pm
by Mike4
scotview wrote:Could someone explain what "fuel poverty" is ?
Many thanks.
They were discussing this on the wireless the other day, some academic bod said (IIRC) it was a household where 10% or more of its net income is spent on fuel.
Then today, another bod said that to him, it was when you has to decide whether to put some money on the gas or leccy, or buy some food but did not have enough money for both. I think he was an MP describing his childhood.
(Spelling edit.)
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 10th, 2021, 3:28 pm
by kempiejon
https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... statisticsUnder the LILEE indicator, a household is considered to be fuel poor if:
they are living in a property with a fuel poverty energy efficiency rating of band D or below
and
when they spend the required amount to heat their home, they are left with a residual income below the official poverty line
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 10th, 2021, 3:30 pm
by mc2fool
scotview wrote:Could someone explain what "fuel poverty" is ?
Many thanks.
Fuel poverty definition in England and Wales
...a household is said to be in fuel poverty if:
o They have required fuel costs that are above average (the national median level), and
o Were they to spend that amount they would be left with a residual income below the official poverty line.
Fuel poverty definition in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland
...a person is living in fuel poverty if, to heat their home to a satisfactory standard, they need to spend more than 10 per cent of their household income on fuel.https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Fuel-Poverty/What-is-fuel-poverty
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 10th, 2021, 3:54 pm
by Gerry557
https://www.gov.uk/government/collectio ... statisticsThey seem to bang on about fuel poverty but do nothing about pony poverty or pool poverty which affects a lot more people.
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 10th, 2021, 3:57 pm
by xeny
Gerry557 wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/fuel-poverty-statistics
They seem to bang on about fuel poverty but do nothing about pony poverty or pool poverty which affects a lot more people.
Pools and horses are rather more discretionary expenditures than energy though?
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 10th, 2021, 4:18 pm
by JohnB
13.4% of households in fuel poverty. Your turn to quote pool and pony stats, or were you being flippant?
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 10th, 2021, 5:11 pm
by Lootman
JohnB wrote:13.4% of households in fuel poverty. Your turn to quote pool and pony stats, or were you being flippant?
I thought the point was more that if someone is defined as being "fuel poor" then they are probably also food poor, car poor, housing poor and every other kind of "poor". In other words, they are just poor.
What I would be curious about, in any given instance, is whether they are alcohol poor, tobacco poor, gambling poor, smartphone poor, Sky subscription poor, large screen TV poor and so on?
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 10th, 2021, 5:18 pm
by scrumpyjack
Presumably if Al Gore lived here and had an income of less than $300,000 he would qualify for 'fuel poverty' under the 10% rule?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/GlobalW ... 888&page=1
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 10th, 2021, 5:30 pm
by Lootman
Ah but imagine how much more un-green Gore would have been had he won the 2000 election and become president?
He would have had a pair of 747's at his disposal, plus a few helicopters. His personal vehicle would be "The Beast", a heavily armoured 6 ton limo that gets flown around the world for his travels, along with the rest of his motorcade, on a C-17 Globemaster transport aircraft which itself weighs 130 tons!
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 10th, 2021, 5:34 pm
by jackdaww
Lootman wrote:JohnB wrote:13.4% of households in fuel poverty. Your turn to quote pool and pony stats, or were you being flippant?
I thought the point was more that if someone is defined as being "fuel poor" then they are probably also food poor, car poor, housing poor and every other kind of "poor". In other words, they are just poor.
What I would be curious about, in any given instance, is whether they are alcohol poor, tobacco poor, gambling poor, smartphone poor, Sky subscription poor, large screen TV poor and so on?
=====================
i have noticed people with cap on pavement usually have fag in hand and --- a much more expensive smartfone than mine..
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 10th, 2021, 5:53 pm
by scrumpyjack
Lootman wrote:JohnB wrote:13.4% of households in fuel poverty. Your turn to quote pool and pony stats, or were you being flippant?
I thought the point was more that if someone is defined as being "fuel poor" then they are probably also food poor, car poor, housing poor and every other kind of "poor". In other words, they are just poor.
What I would be curious about, in any given instance, is whether they are alcohol poor, tobacco poor, gambling poor, smartphone poor, Sky subscription poor, large screen TV poor and so on?
Of course that is the big problem with giving money away, whether it be private individuals or the state with social security, the recipients often have a very annoying habit of not spending it on the things the donor approves of!
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 10th, 2021, 6:18 pm
by csearle
Moderator Message:
The subject is: Could someone explain what "fuel poverty" is ? Please could we stick to that. Thanks - Chris
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 11th, 2021, 2:09 pm
by UncleEbenezer
mc2fool wrote:...a person is living in fuel poverty if, to heat their home to a satisfactory standard, they need to spend more than 10 per cent of their household income on fuel.[/i]
The weasel words are those "need to". Not merely first-world problems but new-millennium problems: we'd almost all have been "fuel poor" by todays standards in our youth.
There was a suggestion not so long ago that the Queen might be in fuel poverty. Or at least would be if Buckingham Palace was heated as warm as is now expected in calculating how much fuel people "need to" burn to heat their homes.
Rule of thumb: definitions of poverty in which the word is preceded by a qualifier are politically motivated and corrupt. Even "absolute poverty" is only a partial exception to the rule.
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 11th, 2021, 2:18 pm
by Lootman
UncleEbenezer wrote:mc2fool wrote:...a person is living in fuel poverty if, to heat their home to a satisfactory standard, they need to spend more than 10 per cent of their household income on fuel.[/i]
The weasel words are those "need to". Not merely first-world problems but new-millennium problems: we'd almost all have been "fuel poor" by todays standards in our youth.
There was a suggestion not so long ago that the Queen might be in fuel poverty. Or at least would be if Buckingham Palace was heated as warm as is now expected in calculating how much fuel people "need to" burn to heat their homes.
Rule of thumb: definitions of poverty in which the word is preceded by a qualifier are politically motivated and corrupt. Even "absolute poverty" is only a partial exception to the rule.
The "satisfactory standard" cited should at least be defined in objective terms rather than relative or subjective terms. I have seen some attempts at doing that e.g. "the heating should enable a temperature of 20 degrees C, at a point one metre above the floor in the centre of the room".
Coincidentally I have our Nest thermostat set to 20C/68F during the day and that feels comfortable to me. But visiting other peoples' homes they seem to have their thermostat set to the kind of temperature that means you can sit around in a T-shirt and pair of shorts. Whereas I expect to wear a jumper in my home.
Re your last paragraph, I share your distaste for the fashion of droning on endlessly about this type of poverty and that type of inequality. Why does everyone have to constantly compare themselves to others? It is divisive and brings about envy.
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 12th, 2021, 8:38 am
by mutantpoodle
there was a woman on TV a couple days ago who complained that she only had heating on for 30 minutes in morning and 30 minutes in evenings as it was so expensive...she complained that this meant she had to wear a CARDIGAN in the house during the day
and people wonder why others are not sympathetic!!
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 12th, 2021, 9:59 am
by 88V8
mutantpoodle wrote:there was a woman on TV a couple days ago who complained that she only had heating on for 30 minutes in morning and 30 minutes in evenings as it was so expensive...she complained that this meant she had to wear a CARDIGAN in the house during the day...and people wonder why others are not sympathetic!!
We heat to about 62F, tee shirt + shirt + woolly + two pairs of socks.
When I were a lad, one room was heated, plus the kitchen from cooking. I imagine that was the common experience. Nothing in bedrooms, bathroom, hall.
Now it's the whole house, shirtsleeves,** curtains left open. Zero sympathy from me.
As Looty says, 'fuel poverty' is just another catchphrase for the media bleaters to bleat about.
V8
** is there such a thing as blousesleeves?
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 12th, 2021, 1:57 pm
by stevensfo
88V8 wrote:mutantpoodle wrote:there was a woman on TV a couple days ago who complained that she only had heating on for 30 minutes in morning and 30 minutes in evenings as it was so expensive...she complained that this meant she had to wear a CARDIGAN in the house during the day...and people wonder why others are not sympathetic!!
We heat to about 62F, tee shirt + shirt + woolly + two pairs of socks.
When I were a lad, one room was heated, plus the kitchen from cooking. I imagine that was the common experience. Nothing in bedrooms, bathroom, hall.
Now it's the whole house, shirtsleeves,** curtains left open. Zero sympathy from me.
As Looty says, 'fuel poverty' is just another catchphrase for the media bleaters to bleat about.
V8
** is there such a thing as blousesleeves?
Absolutely shocking. I cannot believe it! I mean.....who uses Fahrenheit these days?
I still remember coming home from Primary school to our maisonette where behind the block, my mum had a hairdressing shop. She used to turn on an electric fire for me in the living room. I remember shivering and sitting on the carpet with my socks touching the grill in front of the glowing bars and watching with fascination as the fibres started to melt. I think they used a lot of nylon in those days.
Happy memories going to bed with a hot water bottle and the delicious feeling of having it first down under my feet, then moving it up to my head, then down under my back.
Also silly things, like going to school wearing a balaclava, scarf and gloves, yet having to wear shorts and girls wearing skirts!! I don't think it was till the 80s that doctors twigged why women had varicose veins.
Steve
PS My mum still sleeps with the window slightly open, even in winter. She's the healthiest in the whole family!
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 12th, 2021, 3:33 pm
by UncleEbenezer
stevensfo wrote:PS My mum still sleeps with the window slightly open, even in winter. She's the healthiest in the whole family!
I used to sleep with the window slightly open in winter.
Nowadays "slightly" isn't an option, so I just sleep with it open. Need my fresh air. Also check carefully when booking a hotel room that I can open a window (one thing the tripadvisor reviews can help with in making a shortlist).
Re: What is fuel poverty ?
Posted: October 12th, 2021, 4:41 pm
by Lootman
UncleEbenezer wrote:stevensfo wrote:PS My mum still sleeps with the window slightly open, even in winter. She's the healthiest in the whole family!
I used to sleep with the window slightly open in winter.
Nowadays "slightly" isn't an option, so I just sleep with it open. Need my fresh air. Also check carefully when booking a hotel room that I can open a window (one thing the tripadvisor reviews can help with in making a shortlist).
Is the air really "fresher" outside? People with breathing disorders are often advised to stay indoors when there is bad pollution. And open windows can let in a lot of noise, at least if you are in a city.
As for hotels, I often find the windows either cannot be opened or else have a mechanism installed to prevent opening. Every now and then a child falls to its death from a high-rise hotel room and that is considered a higher risk. The hotels also don't want to encourage people smoking in rooms and blowing the smoke out of the open window, where it promptly enters another open window.