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Bust energy suppliers

Making your money go further
UncleEbenezer
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#453171

Postby UncleEbenezer » October 26th, 2021, 11:48 am

didds wrote:meanwhile Shell are still setting up my new accont, Green have cloised my old one , and ive no way to find out anything (like annual consumption... I had a note of it and cannot find it now)

Glad to hear I'm not the only one (not Shell here, but EON acquired me just months after I switched away from them).

That is to say, glad to hear I'm in company: if there are enough of us someone might notice. Not glad to hear of your predicament!

didds
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#453172

Postby didds » October 26th, 2021, 11:54 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:That is to say, glad to hear I'm in company: if there are enough of us someone might notice. Not glad to hear of your predicament!



And ditto for you UE :-(

DrFfybes
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#454060

Postby DrFfybes » October 29th, 2021, 8:53 am

didds wrote:meanwhile Shell are still setting up my new accont, Green have cloised my old one , and ive no way to find out anything (like annual consumption... I had a note of it and cannot find it now)


When I queried OTF last week about their estimate of my gas consumption being double the figure I gave them, they said it was based on previous years meter readings. We've only lived here a year, but obviously (and probably unsurprisingly) there is some system for the providers to look at historic meter data. When I explain we'd only been here 1 year they rechecked and dropped the DD back to my figures - it seems the previous owners didn't own jumpers :)

Also, FWIW the Scottish tariff we went on when YE went under was pretty much the same as the YE one, and I really struggled to find anything like as competitive from any other supplier until it expired in July this year. This was for both us and mum, so one in Shropshire and one in Oldham. Which reminds me, I need to prod BG as we are sellng her flat and apparently they are taking over PFP customers, of which she was one.

Paul

modellingman
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#456740

Postby modellingman » November 9th, 2021, 10:07 am

DrFfybes wrote:
didds wrote:meanwhile Shell are still setting up my new accont, Green have cloised my old one , and ive no way to find out anything (like annual consumption... I had a note of it and cannot find it now)


When I queried OTF last week about their estimate of my gas consumption being double the figure I gave them, they said it was based on previous years meter readings. We've only lived here a year, but obviously (and probably unsurprisingly) there is some system for the providers to look at historic meter data. When I explain we'd only been here 1 year they rechecked and dropped the DD back to my figures - it seems the previous owners didn't own jumpers :)



(My emphasis added).

Almost, but not quite.

The system operators of the pipe and wire networks have systems which maintain for each supply point (effectively each customer) an estimate of annual consumption. These estimates are updated each time an actual meter reading is obtained. Profiles are applied to these annual consumption estimates to get estimates of consumption over very short time periods (daily in the case of gas and half-hourly for electricity). Each supplier is required to financially balance the amount of supply they put into the network with the amount their customers take out over these short time periods in a process known as "balancing and settlement". Balancing and settlement effectively underpins the operation of the competitive market where multiple suppliers share the same networks of pipes and wires.

Because the centrally produced annual consumption estimates play such a central role in balancing and settlement there are rules on how they are updated when a new (actual) meter reading is obtained for a supply point. One consequence of these rules is that it can take quite a long time (12 months plus) for a sudden change in a consumption pattern at a supply point to be properly reflected in the annual consumption estimate. Such sudden changes can occur, for example, on a change of occupant or when a property changes to/from being empty.

Suppliers have access to the centrally produced annual consumption estimates and the profiles applicable to their customers. It allows them to check that they are being charged correctly under the balancing and settlement system. Almost certainly most new entrants will also be using these same items for billing purposes where actual meter readings are not available. (Despite what your bill tells you, suppliers estimate consumptions rather than meter readings - the estimated reading on your bill simply comes from adding the estimated consumption to the previous meter reading.) Suppliers are not obliged to use the centrally produced annual estimates and profiles for billing purposes but most do so because (a) it avoids the need to invest in developing their own estimation methods (which might be more reactive to sudden changes in consumption patterns) and (b) OFGEM long since ceased to take any interest in the accuracy of estimated bills.

The current business model of suppliers seems to be, provide us with monthly meter readings. If you don't, you'll get low quality estimates and it will be your fault for not sending us your readings.

When the customers of a failed supplier are transferred to a new supplier, there is a large data migration exercise that needs to take place, transferring data for a large number of customers from the failed supplier's billing system to the new supplier's system. Although each billing system does pretty much the same job, they will all be organised and structured very differently. Getting the data migration right is no doubt one of the factors that adds delay to the transfer process.

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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#457028

Postby Fluke » November 10th, 2021, 10:59 am

swill453 wrote:Since the Gas and Electricity thread is locked, I thought I'd start a new one for info on providers going bust and what happens next.

I am/was with Igloo, and (as advised) didn't cancel my Direct Debit. They took another monthly payment from me on Monday, but I note that their web site is still up and running, and my "dashboard" is showing the payment as a credit.

So probably worth taking a snapshot of the account page as proof of payment so it can't fall down the cracks.

Scott.


Since you posted this I've been keeping an eye on my Igloo dashboard and took a screenshot again this morning showing the new credit figure since the November payment went out. I received an email this morning from E.ON Next saying that they are now in the process of moving the account over, they've given the prices I will be charged, subject to any discount available for paying by direct debit etc.

You'll pay a standing charge of 28.59p per day and 21.98p/kWh for each unit of electricity.
You'll pay a standing charge of 30.78p per day and 4.27p/kWh for each unit of gas.


I moved from E.ON over to Igloo in January this year chasing a £70ish reduction in my yearly costs, if I'd have stayed put on the new E.ON tariff it would have worked out about £250 cheaper than they are now charging me. Oh well.

swill453
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#457056

Postby swill453 » November 10th, 2021, 12:18 pm

Fluke wrote:Since you posted this I've been keeping an eye on my Igloo dashboard and took a screenshot again this morning showing the new credit figure since the November payment went out. I received an email this morning from E.ON Next saying that they are now in the process of moving the account over, they've given the prices I will be charged, subject to any discount available for paying by direct debit etc.

Yes me too.

Scott.

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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#457510

Postby staffordian » November 12th, 2021, 9:22 am

As an ex-Utility Point customer waiting for EDF to take over my supply, it looks like they are getting somewhere with the data migration.

I received an email from EDF this morning inviting me to set up an account with them.

Having done so, my contact details and bank account information is there, but no details of tariff, meter readings, account credit etc.

Still, it's a step in the right direction.

DrFfybes
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#457648

Postby DrFfybes » November 12th, 2021, 3:43 pm

I had a "send us your closing readings from 12 Sept" email from PFP for mum's flat. Otherwise please send the current one.

I fell for this when I switched to OTF, who are argueing the toss as SSE closing reading was higher than their (estimated!) opening one, so I sent the same opening elec reading as I gave BG(?) when they asked for it. It wouldn't accept the closing Gas reading, presumably as it was too close to the one provided in mid August, although the flat was empty.

I then on the offchance went to BG, who were accepting opening readings for elec AND gas, despite only asking for (and me being able to) provide an elec one last time.

Paul

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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#458430

Postby steelman99 » November 16th, 2021, 10:46 am

Rather interestingly we were with utillity point and theyve just sent me a message as my fixed rate is about to end , and theres an offer of another 1 year fixed rate - looks like their systems are just running on Automatic even after they've gone bust

For info the fixed rate offered was 25p per month cheaper than the varible tariff

daveh
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#458833

Postby daveh » November 17th, 2021, 4:42 pm

Interesting.

In September SSE/Ovo put up my direct debit from £55 to £58 even though I'm in credit, I complained at got it put back down. Today they said they were going to put it up to £61. So I phoned them up and complained and they immediately said they would leave it where it was. I then looked at my account in more detail and realised they hadn't ben billing me for electricity as the credit had gone up by the amount of my direct debits . I had a smart meter fitted in may and it looks as if they haven't transferred everything across properly. So how they knew what my direct debit should be I don't know. Lets hope they get the electricity usage correct. They do seem to have the correct readings for the old meter and the smart meter, but lets see if they can calculate it correctly.

88V8
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#459036

Postby 88V8 » November 18th, 2021, 10:43 am

daveh wrote:In September SSE/Ovo put up my direct debit from £55 to £58 even though I'm in credit ...lets see if they can calculate it correctly.

Their Usage Chart never agrees with my spreadsheet.
In summer they suggest I should reduce my DD, then if I do they panic in Autumn and want me to ncrease it again.
So now I just leave it at £170.

I don't mind the surplus, considering they pay me 5% tax free.

V8

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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#459059

Postby daveh » November 18th, 2021, 11:40 am

88V8 wrote:
daveh wrote:In September SSE/Ovo put up my direct debit from £55 to £58 even though I'm in credit ...lets see if they can calculate it correctly.

Their Usage Chart never agrees with my spreadsheet.
In summer they suggest I should reduce my DD, then if I do they panic in Autumn and want me to ncrease it again.
So now I just leave it at £170.

I don't mind the surplus, considering they pay me 5% tax free.

V8


I've got the feeling they are were generally upping peoples DD to get money in in advance for cashflow and ahead of the price rises that happened in October plus the expected rises in April next year when the CAP goes up to cover the very high wholesale prices we have at the moment.

My problem is that my online account (set up when I got the smart meter) is showing electricity usage and the direct debits but isn't setting any of the electricity usage against the direct debits. Not sure if thats how its supposed to work between bills or not.

servodude
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#459062

Postby servodude » November 18th, 2021, 11:58 am

88V8 wrote:I don't mind the surplus, considering they pay me 5% tax free


Given that return is there anything to stop you overpaying?
You're going to eventually need the energy (and if not they'll return it)
- sort of like an e-stooz

-sd

DrFfybes
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#459121

Postby DrFfybes » November 18th, 2021, 4:53 pm

servodude wrote:
Given that return is there anything to stop you overpaying?
You're going to eventually need the energy (and if not they'll return it)
- sort of like an e-stooz

-sd


Dear Sir,
Please find enclosed 17,000 AA rechargeable batteries containing the energy you have overpaid for. Please return them when flat....

:)

didds
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#459208

Postby didds » November 19th, 2021, 10:16 am

Update on the Shell migration:

I tried earlier this week to access a Shell accoiunt that I didnt even know existed. Id certainly not had any indication that it had been.

unsurprisingly I was unable to login on their login page so tried for what it was worth a "forgotten password" link... and to my amazement it worked! And i do have a shell account. Bizarrely (or then again maybe not, prompted by login)... I received a message saying my shell account was all set up after a few weeks of migration from green!

didds

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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#459212

Postby swill453 » November 19th, 2021, 10:22 am

Got an email from E.ON Next saying that they'd been unable to transfer Direct Debit details from Igloo "We know we've changed what we first told you about your Direct Debit and we're sorry for any confusion - this was down to what we were able to agree with Igloo's administrators ... We're sorry, we haven't been able to transfer your Direct Debit details over if you had one set up with Igloo. We really tried, but couldn't reach an agreement with the administrators on this one."

No big deal I suppose, I set up a new one with E.ON Next and will cancel the Igloo one.

No sign yet of credit balance being transferred over, but they say it will happen in due course.

Scott.

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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#459291

Postby staffordian » November 19th, 2021, 1:50 pm

swill453 wrote:Got an email from E.ON Next saying that they'd been unable to transfer Direct Debit details from Igloo "We know we've changed what we first told you about your Direct Debit and we're sorry for any confusion - this was down to what we were able to agree with Igloo's administrators ... We're sorry, we haven't been able to transfer your Direct Debit details over if you had one set up with Igloo. We really tried, but couldn't reach an agreement with the administrators on this one."

No big deal I suppose, I set up a new one with E.ON Next and will cancel the Igloo one.

No sign yet of credit balance being transferred over, but they say it will happen in due course.

Scott.


My UP to EDF transfer is going OK and if I look at live direct debits on my banking app it shows the one in favour of UP has gone, replaced by one in favour of EDF.

It strikes me as very strange that most SoLR transfers can include a DD transfer but this one can't. It almost seems like the administrators are being deliberately obstructive.

UncleEbenezer
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#460070

Postby UncleEbenezer » November 22nd, 2021, 12:12 pm

swill453 wrote:Got an email from E.ON Next saying that they'd been unable to transfer Direct Debit details from Igloo "We know we've changed what we first told you about your Direct Debit and we're sorry for any confusion - this was down to what we were able to agree with Igloo's administrators ... We're sorry, we haven't been able to transfer your Direct Debit details over if you had one set up with Igloo. We really tried, but couldn't reach an agreement with the administrators on this one."

No big deal I suppose, I set up a new one with E.ON Next and will cancel the Igloo one.

No sign yet of credit balance being transferred over, but they say it will happen in due course.

Scott.

I have yet to do that with eon.next.

They've sent a few emails with links, but they're the kind of tracking links that send me running for the hills. Guess I'll have to hold my nose and click sometime :evil:

pje16
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#460104

Postby pje16 » November 22nd, 2021, 1:41 pm


richfool
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Re: Bust energy suppliers

#460109

Postby richfool » November 22nd, 2021, 2:00 pm

pje16 wrote:Bulb are next to go
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59373198

Another point of reference here. Note the reference to SEQI as its largest creditor.
Soaring energy prices claimed another UK supplier on Monday, as Bulb Energy collapsed into administration.

The supplier, which caters to 1.7 million customers is Britain's seventh biggest energy supplier.

It had been engaged in eleventh-hour talks with the government, as well as its largest creditor the Sequoia Economic Infrastructure Income Fund.

Bulb so big, and caters to so many that regulator Ofgem cannot get anyone else to take on this many customers as a "supplier of last resort".

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/bulb- ... 42401.html


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