The Lemon Fool

Is a pain.

I am presently hanging on the phone listening to stupid hold music trying to talk to SSE (OVO). They have told me by email what the new tarrif in April is going to be (50.06p per day standing charge and 27.9p per kWh) and they have said they are going to put up my direct debit in April from £55 to £90. However they claim they have used an actual annual usage of 3500 kWH. The question is where do they get this actual usage from as I have never used that much electricity in any calendar year since I moved in in 97? I have never used more than 2300 kWh and the average of the last five years is 1881kWh.

After being shunted from pillar to post it looks like my best bet is to wait and see what they do in April and then reduce my direct debit via my online account to a more sensible amount after they have put it up too high. I am presently in credit on the existing direct debit and my estimation from a conservative estimate of my usage is that OVOs calculation of the new direct debit would grow the credit by £15 - £20 a month.

Its not the first time OVO have tried to increase the direct debit more than required when the account is in credit, looks like a modus operandi to get in extra cash flow.

daveh wrote:Is a pain.

I am presently hanging on the phone listening to stupid hold music trying to talk to SSE (OVO). They have told me by email what the new tarrif in April is going to be (50.06p per day standing charge and 27.9p per kWh) and they have said they are going to put up my direct debit in April from £55 to £90. However they claim they have used an actual annual usage of 3500 kWH. The question is where do they get this actual usage from as I have never used that much electricity in any calendar year since I moved in in 97? I have never used more than 2300 kWh and the average of the last five years is 1881kWh.

After being shunted from pillar to post it looks like my best bet is to wait and see what they do in April and then reduce my direct debit via my online account to a more sensible amount after they have put it up too high. I am presently in credit on the existing direct debit and my estimation from a conservative estimate of my usage is that OVOs calculation of the new direct debit would grow the credit by £15 - £20 a month.

Its not the first time OVO have tried to increase the direct debit more than required when the account is in credit, looks like a modus operandi to get in extra cash flow.

I am with OVO and although it will not help you I have found them to be quite good and helpful. However, I would suggest that you change to paying by variable direct debit quarterly in arrears. I have never liked the thought of paying monthly when that requires me to submit to the supplier's estimate of my usage. I am not sure if you can change to that or not but I have always paid that way. For someone in your position, if they will allow you to do that, there will be an adjustment of course in the transition but otherwise it works perfectly well. Not only do I pay in arrears, I also ensure that they get an accurate reading of my actual usage. I have a smart meter but it can be done online.

Dod

daveh wrote:...they have said they are going to put up my direct debit in April from £55 to £90.
Its not the first time OVO have tried to increase the direct debit more than required when the account is in credit, looks like a modus operandi to get in extra cash flow.

Been with Ovo a few years.
I'm on a fix until December.

Their usage algorithm is a bit duff, they can't seem to cope with seasonal variations - storage heaters - and it's taken perhaps three years for my account to settle down.
I'm about £600 in credit, and during the summer as the monthly £170 adds to the surplus they will be suggesting that I reduce the payment, which I shall ignore as I'm happy to have the 5% tax-free they will pay me.

When first I moved over to them I did reduce the payment in the summer, then in the winter they got in a panic and insisted that the DD be increased again, and if I ignored them they put it up themselves.
Their system won't allow the monthly DD to be reduced if, by their calculations, it would put you in deficit.

If I were you and finances allow, I would just overpay until you have established a usage record on their system.

I don't think there's any sinister MO at work here, cockup rather than conspiracy.

V8

daveh wrote:I am presently hanging on the phone listening to stupid hold music trying to talk to SSE (OVO). They have told me by email what the new tarrif in April is going to be (50.06p per day standing charge and 27.9p per kWh) and they have said they are going to put up my direct debit in April from £55 to £90.

Screech to a halt right there.

I don't have ANY of these problems as I pay monthly (or more accurately, whenever I feel like it) by card or bank transfer. Yes its a ball-ache but less of a ball-ache than sorting it out when they decide to dip their sticky fingers uninvited into your bank balance, as you have just illustrated.

You might even find it easier to post them a cheque once in a while, signed with your quill pen, as a mate of mine still does.


(Edit a spelling error.)

88V8 wrote:

daveh wrote:...they have said they are going to put up my direct debit in April from £55 to £90.
Its not the first time OVO have tried to increase the direct debit more than required when the account is in credit, looks like a modus operandi to get in extra cash flow.

Been with Ovo a few years.
I'm on a fix until December.

Their usage algorithm is a bit duff, they can't seem to cope with seasonal variations - storage heaters - and it's taken perhaps three years for my account to settle down.
I'm about £600 in credit, and during the summer as the monthly £170 adds to the surplus they will be suggesting that I reduce the payment, which I shall ignore as I'm happy to have the 5% tax-free they will pay me.

When first I moved over to them I did reduce the payment in the summer, then in the winter they got in a panic and insisted that the DD be increased again, and if I ignored them they put it up themselves.
Their system won't allow the monthly DD to be reduced if, by their calculations, it would put you in deficit.

If I were you and finances allow, I would just overpay until you have established a usage record on their system.

I don't think there's any sinister MO at work here, cockup rather than conspiracy.

V8

I wish they paid me 5% on credits!

Theoretically they should have 20+ years of my electricity history as I've been with SSE from the start and I found SSE very easy to deal with. It seems to have gone downhill since SSE retail was taken over by OVO from my recent experience.

My guess is they haven't got my old records from before I had a smart meter fitted on the same system as the Smart meter records as I've talked to them previously and when they've tried to look they only see my records from May last year when the smart meter went in - and that's all I see on my online account (I have my own spreadsheet that goes back the whole 20+ years). Still don't see how they turn a 9 month usage of 1500kWh into a 12 month usage of 3500kWh.

I'll see what I can do by changing direct debit amounts via the online account, but I may have to end up phoning them again in April if the system won't let me reduce it to a sensible amount. A cheque might be difficult - I'd have to search my house for the cheque book - I think I know where it is filed, but it hasn't been used for a few years.

I have to say that this idea of electricity companies adjusting DD tariffs up and down because they think you either aren't paying enough, or alternatively, are paying too much, is nothing new.

A long time ago, perhaps as many as 40, or maybe more, years ago, the Yorkshire Electricity Board had a scheme whereby the user could pay by 12 equal monthly payments; a sort of DD scheme but I don't think DD was actually available back then. Unfortunately, my particular scheme ran from October to October which meant that as we were, and still are, on storage heaters, our electric bills through the first two quarters were horrendous, thus leading to the YEB attempting to put up our payments whilst not taking into consideration that the last two quarters would be relatively light and hence would catch up on the debt. This resulted in a stroppy letter from me complaining about nationalised bullying industries etc. I can't remember what the end result was (I think I won), but the small print did reveal that they had the right to change the payment willy-nilly.

Since then, I have a number of sessions with different companies attempting to do the same thing, basically because they are unable, so it seems, to take into consideration the differences between winter & summer quarters. Indeed, when I pointed out to one company that I had records doing back 25 years in our present house, and back a further 15 or more years in previous houses, all with storage heaters, and could thus predict with reasonable certainty our usage, the person I was speaking did have the grace to admit that they could not compete with that as they didn't have those records. In that instance, the payment remained as I wished, ie no change. It does, of course, lead to the odd situation when the companies owe me money, but that's ok as it can go towards reducing the arrears later.

Funnily enough, in Feb. last year I took out a 2 year contract with Scottish Power. I have recently received a letter saying that they are gonig to reduce my payments from £224 to £189 p.m. Given that our finances have finally settled down after 50 years of married life, I've decided to let it be, and simply pay the extra as and when necessary.

Tootle pip,

ten0rman

We were with Together Energy but they shut up shop and we were transferred to British Gas. Just had the email today to confirm that the standing charge is increasing by 91.8% to 48.127p per day and unit rate up by 35.3% to 27.865p.

The web site is increcibly slow and they don't appear to offer an Eco 7 rate (we are All electric)

I reckon our electricity bill will be ~£3k per year.

Isn't there a price cap that limits the cost per unit ?

Current cap on average is around 21p /Kwh standing charge 25p/day

From 1st April it's 28p/Kwh & 45p/day

I don't see why the standing charge should go up by even a penny, given there are no increases in the fixed costs of providing the supply or billing services. (Other than inflation that is.)

Mike4 wrote:I don't see why the standing charge should go up by even a penny, given there are no increases in the fixed costs of providing the supply or billing services. (Other than inflation that is.)

Indeed, you would expect that. But the standing charge isn't the standing charge of old

servodude wrote:

Mike4 wrote:I don't see why the standing charge should go up by even a penny, given there are no increases in the fixed costs of providing the supply or billing services. (Other than inflation that is.)

Indeed, you would expect that. But the standing charge isn't the standing charge of old

what is it now then?!

Mike4 wrote:

servodude wrote:

Mike4 wrote:I don't see why the standing charge should go up by even a penny, given there are no increases in the fixed costs of providing the supply or billing services. (Other than inflation that is.)

Indeed, you would expect that. But the standing charge isn't the standing charge of old

what is it now then?!

Minimum guaranteed take from a given customer; tinkered with so that there's differentiation between "offerings"
It's not like the guy you pay for electricity makes electricity or runs wires

Mike4 wrote:I don't see why the standing charge should go up by even a penny, given there are no increases in the fixed costs of providing the supply or billing services. (Other than inflation that is.)

See this recent thread:

viewtopic.php?f=9&p=481140

Mike4 wrote:

servodude wrote:

Mike4 wrote:I don't see why the standing charge should go up by even a penny, given there are no increases in the fixed costs of providing the supply or billing services. (Other than inflation that is.)

Indeed, you would expect that. But the standing charge isn't the standing charge of old

what is it now then?!

It's a tax. A very regressive tax, 'cos the pauper's hovel pays the same flat rate as the tycoon's mansion.

It funds all the various schemes that central government decrees must be funded, but won't pay for. Like the costs of bust suppliers, and the cost of social schemes like (I expect) the energy component of this one.

UncleEbenezer wrote:It's a tax. A very regressive tax, 'cos the pauper's hovel pays the same flat rate as the tycoon's mansion.

It funds all the various schemes that central government decrees must be funded, but won't pay for. Like the costs of bust suppliers, and the cost of social schemes like (I expect) the energy component of this one.

The most clear example of doublespeak I've seen on these boards for a long long time...


GS

UncleEbenezer wrote:

Mike4 wrote:

servodude wrote:

Mike4 wrote:I don't see why the standing charge should go up by even a penny, given there are no increases in the fixed costs of providing the supply or billing services. (Other than inflation that is.)

Indeed, you would expect that. But the standing charge isn't the standing charge of old

what is it now then?!

It's a tax. A very regressive tax, 'cos the pauper's hovel pays the same flat rate as the tycoon's mansion.

It funds all the various schemes that central government decrees must be funded, but won't pay for. Like the costs of bust suppliers, and the cost of social schemes like (I expect) the energy component of this one.

Given that the companies have all taken on customers from those companies which went bust, what would your solution be? Outside a government contribution (unlikely!) the only place finance can come from is the customer - there is no other source of revenue.

I agree it is recessive (though not a tax) and it would be better to load it on the usage rather than the standing charge. That part of the event does not seem reasonable to me, and if you have a prepayment meter it shows how unfair it is. Your payment can get eaten up by the standing charge alone before you've even drawn down any energy. Those with such meters are usually at the poorer end of society and frankly, doing it this way is just wrong.

Arb.

Arborbridge wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:

Mike4 wrote:

servodude wrote:

Mike4 wrote:I don't see why the standing charge should go up by even a penny, given there are no increases in the fixed costs of providing the supply or billing services. (Other than inflation that is.)

Indeed, you would expect that. But the standing charge isn't the standing charge of old

what is it now then?!

It's a tax. A very regressive tax, 'cos the pauper's hovel pays the same flat rate as the tycoon's mansion.

It funds all the various schemes that central government decrees must be funded, but won't pay for. Like the costs of bust suppliers, and the cost of social schemes like (I expect) the energy component of this one.

Given that the companies have all taken on customers from those companies which went bust, what would your solution be? Outside a government contribution (unlikely!) the only place finance can come from is the customer - there is no other source of revenue.

I agree it is recessive (though not a tax) and it would be better to load it on the usage rather than the standing charge. That part of the event does not seem reasonable to me, and if you have a prepayment meter it shows how unfair it is. Your payment can get eaten up by the standing charge alone before you've even drawn down any energy. Those with such meters are usually at the poorer end of society and frankly, doing it this way is just wrong.

Arb.

The reason for the bust suppliers is lack of proper regulation and that is down to Government. It seems to me to be completely wrong that all consumers of electricity should be paying for this. It should be only those consumers who have had to be taken on by the established companies. They after all are the ones who benefited, at least for a while, from the incompetence of the now bust suppliers and the negligence of the regulator.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:The reason for the bust suppliers is lack of proper regulation and that is down to Government. It seems to me to be completely wrong that all consumers of electricity should be paying for this. It should be only those consumers who have had to be taken on by the established companies. They after all are the ones who benefited, at least for a while, from the incompetence of the now bust suppliers and the negligence of the regulator.

Dod

AIUI it's not just the bust suppliers, it's also social stuff like "Warm homes". And funding for FITs for those benefiting from a generation of giveaways.

The phrase "stealth taxes" was coined in the New Labour era and weaponised against Brown, but always seemed to me a bit of a misnomer in that the taxes referred to were pretty clear to all. This outsourcing of a tax to the power suppliers looks to me a much better candidate.

An update,

Just had my actual bill for ~4 months (so approx.1/3 of a year and mostly the winter period). I have used just short of 600kwH hours over the billed winter period. So what do you think SSE (OVO energy) are estimating my annual usage to be? Three times my actual usage for a third of year (so around 1800kWh)? A little less than that because it was winter and I'll be using less electricity in the summer? The average of what I've used in the last five years (1881kWh)?

No they estimate I will use 4124.18kWh!!

How the hell do they work that out? The last time I phoned them up because they were saying myactual annual usage was 3233kWh (their words) when my actual annual usage has varied between a minimum of 1346kWh in 2003 to a maximum of 2326 kWh in 2020 ( mean 1840±313kWh n=24). So it looks like they can't even do simple maths to work out my expected annual usage.

It will be interesting to see what they try and put my direct debit up to, and if I can use the website to reduce it to something sensible. My calculation says they should put it up to ~£70 from £55 as that should cover my real electricity usage, and there is plenty of leeway as I'm over £200 in credit (which would pay for about 3 months of electricity at my current usage.

So do I bother wasting time phoning them proactively about their estimated annual usage, or wait and see what happens and deal with it reactively via the website and hope I can deal with any problems without having to deal with customer services?

A recent look at my electricity bills seemed to indicate that OVO were only taking occasional direct debits whilst my account was in surplus. Possibly no phone calls needed ?