The Lemon Fool

Mike4 wrote:I think there is a slight misunderstanding that meters only need to measure the amount of gas or leccy used and report it to the supplier.

In fact they also measure the rate at which energy is being used. This is important for safety checking and testing of appliances. For gas appliances they are an utter PITA as on an old analogue meter we used a stopwatch to time the needle on the dial for one whole revolution but on smart meters (of which there are about 15 types in use IIRC), we have to look up in pages of instructions how to do it on each different make/model of smart meter. And as you can probably guess, every meter has a different method of measuring gas rate..

You had "instructions"?

A friend had one at her new flat. I went online to find the 'instruction manual' (as you do). There wasn't one...

I constructed one, on an A4 sheet, by scraping and editing stuff I found on the Web. Smart huh?

Needless to say, she was completely lost when it came to the IHU (user display). I played with it for about 10 minutes and, being technically minded, was able to eventually decode its functioning enough to park it on the only option she wanted.

I bet this is all "World beating".

XFool wrote:You had "instructions"?
I bet this is all "World beating".

Yes. Gas Safe Register published an article in "The Gas Installer" magazine sent monthly to us all, for us to cut out and carry around with us.

Mike4 wrote:

XFool wrote:You had "instructions"?
I bet this is all "World beating".

Yes. Gas Safe Register published an article in "The Gas Installer" magazine sent monthly to us all, for us to cut out and carry around with us.

I suspect the model for the design and implementation of these things was that the 'customer' wouldn't need to go anywhere near the meter itself - which was just for technicians - and the IHU (In Home Unit) was the only interface the customer needed. Not that they seem particularly user friendly, from what I've seen.

I am glad to say I have not got a smart meter at my home. (Yet)

I had electricity and gas smart meters fitted by Eon in July 2020. I insisted on 2nd generation meters (SMETS2) to enable switching between suppliers. They worked well from day 1. - I have never had a problem. If you want a manual reading, Google you meter make and model and there will be instructions on how to do this.

I was keen on getting a smart meter because I have had solar panels installed and you can’t get paid for excess solar unless you have a smart meter to measure what you export.

I also switched to Octopus, and they had no problems reading the meters.

I also have a plug in car, and to get an EV tariff, with cheap overnight electricity you need a smart meter, which is read by the supplier, Octopus in this case, every 30 minutes.

It is worth getting them working if you can as it opens up a whole new world of tariffs to suit your needs. If you are one of the few who can’t get them working, then they are a pain in the backside.

FD

funduffer wrote:I had electricity and gas smart meters fitted by Eon in July 2020. I insisted on 2nd generation meters (SMETS2) to enable switching between suppliers. They worked well from day 1. - I have never had a problem. If you want a manual reading, Google you meter make and model and there will be instructions on how to do this.

I was keen on getting a smart meter because I have had solar panels installed and you can’t get paid for excess solar unless you have a smart meter to measure what you export.

I also switched to Octopus, and they had no problems reading the meters.

I also have a plug in car, and to get an EV tariff, with cheap overnight electricity you need a smart meter, which is read by the supplier, Octopus in this case, every 30 minutes.

It is worth getting them working if you can as it opens up a whole new world of tariffs to suit your needs. If you are one of the few who can’t get them working, then they are a pain in the backside.

FD

It's not up to me to get the damn things working and there is clearly a disconnect between Eon and Eon-next. I'm going to bed with two hot water bottles since I have no ch now.

The main reason for pressuring us all to get smart meters is so the utility suppliers can impose grid-load-dependant pricing on us.

When the load on the grid spikes, we currently still pay the same price but if they can double or triple the price for an hour at say 5pm-6pm, or during the adverts at half time in the World Cup, they can A) make a pile more money and B) reduce the size of the peak load.

Not a benefit to users but to the suppliers.

Oh and in future, should you be a member of the Awkward Squad and pish off a less benign government than we have now, they'll be able to disconnect your gas and leccy at the click of a mouse in Whitehall, should they feel inclined to start making life difficult for you. Just a thought to muse on....

Mike4 wrote:Not a benefit to users but to the suppliers.

True-ish
They could at present just set the unit cost to the top of their range
And it doesn't help anyone if the system goes down because the load balancing is cr@p.

-sd

servodude wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Not a benefit to users but to the suppliers.

True-ish
They could at present just set the unit cost to the top of their range
And it doesn't help anyone if the system goes down because the load balancing is cr@p.

-sd

True, but why help enable them to triple or quadruple the price of heating during a cold snap?

Mike4 wrote:

servodude wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Not a benefit to users but to the suppliers.

True-ish
They could at present just set the unit cost to the top of their range
And it doesn't help anyone if the system goes down because the load balancing is cr@p.

-sd

True, but why help enable them to triple or quadruple the price of heating during a cold snap?

Cos when the grid goes down it's worse than being expensive
- mostly a problem for leccy in hot places (things like hospitals or aluminum smelters strangely)

-sd

servodude wrote:

Mike4 wrote:

servodude wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Not a benefit to users but to the suppliers.

True-ish
They could at present just set the unit cost to the top of their range
And it doesn't help anyone if the system goes down because the load balancing is cr@p.

-sd

True, but why help enable them to triple or quadruple the price of heating during a cold snap?

Cos when the grid goes down it's worse than being expensive
- mostly a problem for leccy in hot places (things like hospitals or aluminum smelters strangely)

-sd

Pretty sure my district hospital has huge backup gennies ready for that...

And there are no ally smelters in my village AFAIK. Just a village post office and shop. Oh and a small joinery firm run by my mate who is also a bellringer. Simon the Postmaster broke the No 5 bell two years and we've had to send it to Cambridge to mend it! No village blacksmith or anyone capable of recasting a one ton bronze bell, much to my surprise....

Nice cider, this....

Mike4 wrote:

servodude wrote:

Mike4 wrote:

servodude wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Not a benefit to users but to the suppliers.

True-ish
They could at present just set the unit cost to the top of their range
And it doesn't help anyone if the system goes down because the load balancing is cr@p.

-sd

True, but why help enable them to triple or quadruple the price of heating during a cold snap?

Cos when the grid goes down it's worse than being expensive
- mostly a problem for leccy in hot places (things like hospitals or aluminum smelters strangely)

-sd

Pretty sure my district hospital has huge backup gennies ready for that...

And there are no ally smelters in my village AFAIK. Just a village post office and shop. Oh and a small joinery firm run by my mate who is also a bellringer. Simon the Postmaster broke the No 5 bell two years and we've had to send it to Cambridge to mend it! No village blacksmith or anyone capable of recasting a one ton bronze bell, much to my surprise....

Nice cider, this....

You'd think there would be enough redundant backup, but there's decent money to be made in automated demand response (esp in California) because it's not a simple thing and rolling blackouts aren't a good look (and worse if they're not planned)
- suppose a bow laithe would work for turning by candle light though

Mike4 wrote:Oh and in future, should you be a member of the Awkward Squad and pish off a less benign government than we have now, they'll be able to disconnect your gas and leccy at the click of a mouse in Whitehall, should they feel inclined to start making life difficult for you. Just a thought to muse on....

or just be unfortunate enough for the powers that be to make a mistake and disconnect you.

As happened to a colleague a few years ago when whoever his landline provider was managed to give his decade+ number to a new landline applicant a few streets away. Then couldn't swap it back, but just give him a totally new number.

didds wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Oh and in future, should you be a member of the Awkward Squad and pish off a less benign government than we have now, they'll be able to disconnect your gas and leccy at the click of a mouse in Whitehall, should they feel inclined to start making life difficult for you. Just a thought to muse on....

or just be unfortunate enough for the powers that be to make a mistake and disconnect you.

As happened to a colleague a few years ago when whoever his landline provider was managed to give his decade+ number to a new landline applicant a few streets away. Then couldn't swap it back, but just give him a totally new number.

One would think they might be in (justifiably) serious trouble for that.

What if your colleague had been "learning disabled", and really couldn't cope with the change? Or just was essential carer for a senile parent?

UncleEbenezer wrote:

didds wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Oh and in future, should you be a member of the Awkward Squad and pish off a less benign government than we have now, they'll be able to disconnect your gas and leccy at the click of a mouse in Whitehall, should they feel inclined to start making life difficult for you. Just a thought to muse on....

or just be unfortunate enough for the powers that be to make a mistake and disconnect you.

As happened to a colleague a few years ago when whoever his landline provider was managed to give his decade+ number to a new landline applicant a few streets away. Then couldn't swap it back, but just give him a totally new number.

One would think they might be in (justifiably) serious trouble for that.

What if your colleague had been "learning disabled", and really couldn't cope with the change? Or just was essential carer for a senile parent?

About three years ago I moved house. I had a reasonably memorable number which I used for business and in the new house (about a mile away) there was a defunct, unused landline. I called BT and was assured they could wake up the landline and transfer my account, memorable number etc. So I booked them to do it.

At the end of the engineer visit I used my new phone to dial my mobile to check it worked and yes my mobile rang, but from an unrecognisable number not my 'memorable number'. The engineer was not bothered, saying all he does is fit the phone socket and make sure it works. A few calls to customer services complaining resulted in BT telling me they can't transfer private numbers even inside the same exchange and I'll have to lump it with the new, random number, and my good number was now lost. All a bit weird I thought.

Mike4 wrote:
At the end of the engineer visit I used my new phone to dial my mobile to check it worked and yes my mobile rang, but from an unrecognisable number not my 'memorable number'. The engineer was not bothered, saying all he does is fit the phone socket and make sure it works. A few calls to customer services complaining resulted in BT telling me they can't transfer private numbers even inside the same exchange and I'll have to lump it with the new, random number, and my good number was now lost. All a bit weird I thought.

I wonder how long that has been the case. My late sister transferred the number which had originally 'belonged' to my grandparents and had been used to contact our family for > 70 years. Of course it started as a 4 digit number but eventually became a 6 digit number. I still use it as the numbers part of a passphrase.

RC

ReformedCharacter wrote:

Mike4 wrote:
At the end of the engineer visit I used my new phone to dial my mobile to check it worked and yes my mobile rang, but from an unrecognisable number not my 'memorable number'. The engineer was not bothered, saying all he does is fit the phone socket and make sure it works. A few calls to customer services complaining resulted in BT telling me they can't transfer private numbers even inside the same exchange and I'll have to lump it with the new, random number, and my good number was now lost. All a bit weird I thought.

I wonder how long that has been the case. My late sister transferred the number which had originally 'belonged' to my grandparents and had been used to contact our family for > 70 years. Of course it started as a 4 digit number but eventually became a 6 digit number. I still use it as the numbers part of a passphrase.

RC

I can recall moving when aged about ten years - we only moved 200 metres (walking), 140 metres (as the crow flies!). My parents took their number with them. that was 1972 when everything was analogue circuits - today its just digital of course.

Mike4 wrote:I think there is a slight misunderstanding that meters only need to measure the amount of gas or leccy used and report it to the supplier.

In fact they also measure the rate at which energy is being used. This is important for safety checking and testing of appliances. For gas appliances they are an utter PITA as on an old analogue meter we used a stopwatch to time the needle on the dial for one whole revolution but on smart meters (of which there are about 15 types in use IIRC), we have to look up in pages of instructions how to do it on each different make/model of smart meter. And as you can probably guess, every meter has a different method of measuring gas rate..

The same probably applies to the 'smart' leccy meters....

I know I'm being thick but am I right in thinking that this only matters if you are trying to see whether a piece of equipment is efficient and affordable from a consumption p.o.v. and that it doesn't have any effect otherwise on what you will be charged in toto. What tests are there to measure whether the meter is accurately recording the consumption and the cost? Can we assume they are all 100% accurate and there is no variation on account of the location of the meters, boilers or whatever? I have to say I can't see my ever having time checking on equipment; the cost to my finances of not having time to monitor my investments because I have to spend so much time on this sort of idiocy must be far, far greater, I try to be economical but my bills seem to be pretty large for a one person household.

Mike4 wrote:About three years ago I moved house. I had a reasonably memorable number which I used for business and in the new house (about a mile away) there was a defunct, unused landline. I called BT and was assured they could wake up the landline and transfer my account, memorable number etc. So I booked them to do it.
At the end of the engineer visit I used my new phone to dial my mobile to check it worked and yes my mobile rang, but from an unrecognisable number not my 'memorable number'. The engineer was not bothered, saying all he does is fit the phone socket and make sure it works. A few calls to customer services complaining resulted in BT telling me they can't transfer private numbers even inside the same exchange and I'll have to lump it with the new, random number, and my good number was now lost. All a bit weird I thought.

Something odd there which sounds like a misunderstanding, for, from my experience of multiple reconnections, the BT system is that they cannot assign a particular number when connecting a line, but are quite happy to change the number if you ring once the line has been reconnected.

Bouleversee wrote:

Mike4 wrote:I think there is a slight misunderstanding that meters only need to measure the amount of gas or leccy used and report it to the supplier.

In fact they also measure the rate at which energy is being used. This is important for safety checking and testing of appliances. For gas appliances they are an utter PITA as on an old analogue meter we used a stopwatch to time the needle on the dial for one whole revolution but on smart meters (of which there are about 15 types in use IIRC), we have to look up in pages of instructions how to do it on each different make/model of smart meter. And as you can probably guess, every meter has a different method of measuring gas rate..

The same probably applies to the 'smart' leccy meters....

I know I'm being thick but am I right in thinking that this only matters if you are trying to see whether a piece of equipment is efficient and affordable from a consumption p.o.v. and that it doesn't have any effect otherwise on what you will be charged in toto. What tests are there to measure whether the meter is accurately recording the consumption and the cost? Can we assume they are all 100% accurate and there is no variation on account of the location of the meters, boilers or whatever? I have to say I can't see my ever having time checking on equipment; the cost to my finances of not having time to monitor my investments because I have to spend so much time on this sort of idiocy must be far, far greater, I try to be economical but my bills seem to be pretty large for a one person household.

Not sure 'only matters' is quite the right term, measuring the rate at which a modern boiler burns gas is a critical and legally mandatory safety check.

I dunno about how meter accuracy is checked or tested though. That is a matter for the gas suppliers.

Eon.next are now telling me the meters are now working properly as of April 1 but I gave them the reading on that date after learning from a Mumsnet forum what button to press to get the gas reading from my particular meter. Am I right in thinking that if the meter were working properly it would be churning out the consumption all the time and Eon could select a reading whenever they wanted. How exactly does it work at their end? I feel inclined to ask them to take a reading and confirm the figure to me. If they weren't working after the last techie had been here, according to someone I spoke to at Eon the next day, how have they got them to work now, without another visit here? Someone else I spoke to at Eon had previously told me they were working from Mar. 24. I am tired of getting illiterate, unintelligible communications from all these organisations; Plusnet is another example.