Energy costs. Oh dear.......

[BullDog]

Of the electricity around 1/3 of that is charging a PHEV. A couple of companies have special smart EV charging tariff. But..... to get one of those tariffs we would have to remove our Podpoint charger and fit one of their smart compatible chargers at >£1000. Not so smart eh? Having to remove the 2 year old Podpoint that cost me £700 and works just fine.

The Octopus EV tariff 'Go' doesn't need a smart compatible charger - just that you own or long-term lease a battery electric vehicle or a plug-in hybrid vehicle and have a smart meter and it gives you four hours at 7.5p/kWh overnight, - https://octopus.energy/go/

If you do have a smart charger then great you can just plug the car in and off it goes when the rate goes cheap, otherwise just set a timer on the car.

They do have other EV tariffs such as Intelligent Octopus (https://octopus.energy/intelligent-octopus/) where you do need a smart charger and a specific sort of car, but that is because they control exactly when the cheap period is (and it might not be all in one go or at the same time every day).

Thanks AF62, we have discovered that Octopus tariff this afternoon. Yes, there's a four hour window every night and we can set the PHEV to charge only in the four hour window. At the moment it looks like a good option. If we do that, then I think we can run the dishwasher and the washing machine in that period too since I don't think Octopus can tell the difference between an EV charger and a dishwasher. Not yet, anyway.

[AF62]

Of the electricity around 1/3 of that is charging a PHEV. A couple of companies have special smart EV charging tariff. But..... to get one of those tariffs we would have to remove our Podpoint charger and fit one of their smart compatible chargers at >£1000. Not so smart eh? Having to remove the 2 year old Podpoint that cost me £700 and works just fine.

The Octopus EV tariff 'Go' doesn't need a smart compatible charger - just that you own or long-term lease a battery electric vehicle or a plug-in hybrid vehicle and have a smart meter and it gives you four hours at 7.5p/kWh overnight, - https://octopus.energy/go/

If you do have a smart charger then great you can just plug the car in and off it goes when the rate goes cheap, otherwise just set a timer on the car.

They do have other EV tariffs such as Intelligent Octopus (https://octopus.energy/intelligent-octopus/) where you do need a smart charger and a specific sort of car, but that is because they control exactly when the cheap period is (and it might not be all in one go or at the same time every day).

Thanks AF62, we have discovered that Octopus tariff this afternoon. Yes, there's a four hour window every night and we can set the PHEV to charge only in the four hour window. At the moment it looks like a good option. If we do that, then I think we can run the dishwasher and the washing machine in that period too since I don't think Octopus can tell the difference between an EV charger and a dishwasher. Not yet, anyway.

Well I run my dishwasher, washing machine in the cheap period and nobody has complained yet!

Where they have tightened up is requiring people to actually have an EV or PHEV as many people were signing up after installing battery storage to charge up overnight at the cheap rate (if you have an EV or PHEV as well as battery storage that is fine).

[BullDog]

Of the electricity around 1/3 of that is charging a PHEV. A couple of companies have special smart EV charging tariff. But..... to get one of those tariffs we would have to remove our Podpoint charger and fit one of their smart compatible chargers at >£1000. Not so smart eh? Having to remove the 2 year old Podpoint that cost me £700 and works just fine.

The Octopus EV tariff 'Go' doesn't need a smart compatible charger - just that you own or long-term lease a battery electric vehicle or a plug-in hybrid vehicle and have a smart meter and it gives you four hours at 7.5p/kWh overnight, - https://octopus.energy/go/

If you do have a smart charger then great you can just plug the car in and off it goes when the rate goes cheap, otherwise just set a timer on the car.

They do have other EV tariffs such as Intelligent Octopus (https://octopus.energy/intelligent-octopus/) where you do need a smart charger and a specific sort of car, but that is because they control exactly when the cheap period is (and it might not be all in one go or at the same time every day).

Thanks AF62, we have discovered that Octopus tariff this afternoon. Yes, there's a four hour window every night and we can set the PHEV to charge only in the four hour window. At the moment it looks like a good option. If we do that, then I think we can run the dishwasher and the washing machine in that period too since I don't think Octopus can tell the difference between an EV charger and a dishwasher. Not yet, anyway.

Well I run my dishwasher, washing machine in the cheap period and nobody has complained yet!

Where they have tightened up is requiring people to actually have an EV or PHEV as many people were signing up after installing battery storage to charge up overnight at the cheap rate (if you have an EV or PHEV as well as battery storage that is fine).

Indeed, open to abuse. And people will catch on very quickly.

My son has Economy 7 so his water heater, dishwasher and washer/drier all run on the cheaper tariff.

Octopus are a very progressive company and I can imagine the day comes when Octopus has battery packs in homes and time shifts the peak demand as part if their clever Agile technology.

[Mike4]

These current energy prices are going to have significant political ramifications. The Conservatives will surely dig deeper to ameliorate the problem (well more than they are doing at the moment) as the voters are not going to be happy, Where they get the cash from ( Peter v Paul) we will have to see!

Well, the government doesn't have any money. So there's really only one place the money can come from.

I think that Covid convinced a lot of voters the government actually DOES have a Magic Money Tree.

[pje16]

I think that Covid convinced a lot of voters the government actually DOES have a Magic Money Tree.

Only in Labours land of make believe

[Mike4]

I think that Covid convinced a lot of voters the government actually DOES have a Magic Money Tree.

Only in Labours land of make believe

Missing my point.

Lots of voters observed the Tory guvvermint come up with apparently limitless money to buy PPE, pay for furlough etc when push came to shove with Covid.Thereby demonstrating to said voters that limitless cash can be found when those in charge feel the need, and therefore the Magic Money Tree must exist.

[JohnB]

More or Less explained that to fully cover fuel price rises for all would require 6.5p on basic rate income tax.

[UncleEbenezer]

I think that Covid convinced a lot of voters the government actually DOES have a Magic Money Tree.

Only in Labours land of make believe

The current lot have topped anything Labour have done. Even pre-Thatcher Labour that bust the country in the 1970s!

Nor is that just covid response: even before covid they were already borrowing for no tomorrow.

[mutantpoodle]

I think that Covid convinced a lot of voters the government actually DOES have a Magic Money Tree.

Only in Labours land of make believe

The current lot have topped anything Labour have done. Even pre-Thatcher Labour that bust the country in the 1970s!

Nor is that just covid response: even before covid they were already borrowing for no tomorrow.

all because they are desparately trying to be popular and get some good media/twitter opinions
they do not seem to realise that the noisies who are vocal on Twitter and in cheap media are in fact NOT the majority
as soon as they realise that all most folk want is 'no problems', then they will get sorted

constantly cowering to minority interests at the expense of majority is what has/IS killing this country

[BullDog]

So..... It seems the Octopus EV tariff without the need for a new smart EV charger is the way to go. There's a four hour period each night where the electric tariff is 7.5p per unit. So, in fact that's a bit more than half what we presently pay to charge the PHEV (presently 14p a unit at any time). It does however mean that we will have to be disciplined and set the PHEV to charge only on the four hour period.

One side benefit of the non smart EV tariff is that Octopus will not be able to determine that we can timeshift the washing machine, dishwasher and the tumble drier to that four hour period too. So we can choose to run the appliances at night on 7.5p per unit should we be disciplined enough to do so. Faced with upwards of 40p a unit, I think we're going to have to get used to the mild inconvenience.

An aside. We have discovered that while we're asleep, we have a 0.5kw base load through the night (and day, obviously). This must be the refrigerator, the freezer and the wine cooler. So, running those is going to increase from 7p per hour to around 20p for 20 hours every day. Nothing we can do about that other than get rid of those three appliances. And that's not going to happen.

[Dod101]

So..... It seems the Octopus EV tariff without the need for a new smart EV charger is the way to go. There's a four hour period each night where the electric tariff is 7.5p per unit. So, in fact that's a bit more than half what we presently pay to charge the PHEV (presently 14p a unit at any time). It does however mean that we will have to be disciplined and set the PHEV to charge only on the four hour period.

One side benefit of the non smart EV tariff is that Octopus will not be able to determine that we can timeshift the washing machine, dishwasher and the tumble drier to that four hour period too. So we can choose to run the appliances at night on 7.5p per unit should we be disciplined enough to do so. Faced with upwards of 40p a unit, I think we're going to have to get used to the mild inconvenience.

An aside. We have discovered that while we're asleep, we have a 0.5kw base load through the night (and day, obviously). This must be the refrigerator, the freezer and the wine cooler. So, running those is going to increase from 7p per hour to around 20p for 20 hours every day. Nothing we can do about that other than get rid of those three appliances. And that's not going to happen.

If I may be so bold as to make a few comments here. Obviously I do not know your personal circumstances, but I got rid of my tumble drier when it broke down and have not replaced it (nor missed it). They use a lot of electricity. A wine cooler? Who are you catering for? My fridge does the job.

Using a dishwasher and washing machine at night seems superficially a good idea, until, that is, something goes wrong and you are wakened by your fire alarm or, at least as bad, water everywhere. It happens.

Dod

[BullDog]

So..... It seems the Octopus EV tariff without the need for a new smart EV charger is the way to go. There's a four hour period each night where the electric tariff is 7.5p per unit. So, in fact that's a bit more than half what we presently pay to charge the PHEV (presently 14p a unit at any time). It does however mean that we will have to be disciplined and set the PHEV to charge only on the four hour period.

One side benefit of the non smart EV tariff is that Octopus will not be able to determine that we can timeshift the washing machine, dishwasher and the tumble drier to that four hour period too. So we can choose to run the appliances at night on 7.5p per unit should we be disciplined enough to do so. Faced with upwards of 40p a unit, I think we're going to have to get used to the mild inconvenience.

An aside. We have discovered that while we're asleep, we have a 0.5kw base load through the night (and day, obviously). This must be the refrigerator, the freezer and the wine cooler. So, running those is going to increase from 7p per hour to around 20p for 20 hours every day. Nothing we can do about that other than get rid of those three appliances. And that's not going to happen.

If I may be so bold as to make a few comments here. Obviously I do not know your personal circumstances, but I got rid of my tumble drier when it broke down and have not replaced it (nor missed it). They use a lot of electricity. A wine cooler? Who are you catering for? My fridge does the job.

Using a dishwasher and washing machine at night seems superficially a good idea, until, that is, something goes wrong and you are wakened by your fire alarm or, at least as bad, water everywhere. It happens.

Dod

Thank you for your concern. The tumble drier is a state of the art heat pump drier and on the occasion it gets used, I suppose we'll have to save up to pay the bill. All the white goods in the house are all less than a year old and are premium quality, quite low risk of a fire really. I dare say you have a wine cellar, whilst us mere plebeian types have to use something else to store the wine.

[Dod101]

So..... It seems the Octopus EV tariff without the need for a new smart EV charger is the way to go. There's a four hour period each night where the electric tariff is 7.5p per unit. So, in fact that's a bit more than half what we presently pay to charge the PHEV (presently 14p a unit at any time). It does however mean that we will have to be disciplined and set the PHEV to charge only on the four hour period.

One side benefit of the non smart EV tariff is that Octopus will not be able to determine that we can timeshift the washing machine, dishwasher and the tumble drier to that four hour period too. So we can choose to run the appliances at night on 7.5p per unit should we be disciplined enough to do so. Faced with upwards of 40p a unit, I think we're going to have to get used to the mild inconvenience.

An aside. We have discovered that while we're asleep, we have a 0.5kw base load through the night (and day, obviously). This must be the refrigerator, the freezer and the wine cooler. So, running those is going to increase from 7p per hour to around 20p for 20 hours every day. Nothing we can do about that other than get rid of those three appliances. And that's not going to happen.

If I may be so bold as to make a few comments here. Obviously I do not know your personal circumstances, but I got rid of my tumble drier when it broke down and have not replaced it (nor missed it). They use a lot of electricity. A wine cooler? Who are you catering for? My fridge does the job.

Using a dishwasher and washing machine at night seems superficially a good idea, until, that is, something goes wrong and you are wakened by your fire alarm or, at least as bad, water everywhere. It happens.

Dod

Thank you for your concern. The tumble drier is a state of the art heat pump drier and on the occasion it gets used, I suppose we'll have to save up to pay the bill. All the white goods in the house are all less than a year old and are premium quality, quite low risk of a fire really. I dare say you have a wine cellar, whilst us mere plebeian types have to use something else to store the wine.

Well there you are. As I said I do not know your personal circumstances. Actually my cool garage serves as a wine cellar but I do not drink a lot anyway, although I do use a lot of ice cubes!

I have a couple of fridge/freezers but I do not think they use much electricity.

Dod

Dod

[BullDog]

So..... It seems the Octopus EV tariff without the need for a new smart EV charger is the way to go. There's a four hour period each night where the electric tariff is 7.5p per unit. So, in fact that's a bit more than half what we presently pay to charge the PHEV (presently 14p a unit at any time). It does however mean that we will have to be disciplined and set the PHEV to charge only on the four hour period.

One side benefit of the non smart EV tariff is that Octopus will not be able to determine that we can timeshift the washing machine, dishwasher and the tumble drier to that four hour period too. So we can choose to run the appliances at night on 7.5p per unit should we be disciplined enough to do so. Faced with upwards of 40p a unit, I think we're going to have to get used to the mild inconvenience.

An aside. We have discovered that while we're asleep, we have a 0.5kw base load through the night (and day, obviously). This must be the refrigerator, the freezer and the wine cooler. So, running those is going to increase from 7p per hour to around 20p for 20 hours every day. Nothing we can do about that other than get rid of those three appliances. And that's not going to happen.

If I may be so bold as to make a few comments here. Obviously I do not know your personal circumstances, but I got rid of my tumble drier when it broke down and have not replaced it (nor missed it). They use a lot of electricity. A wine cooler? Who are you catering for? My fridge does the job.

Using a dishwasher and washing machine at night seems superficially a good idea, until, that is, something goes wrong and you are wakened by your fire alarm or, at least as bad, water everywhere. It happens.

Dod

Thank you for your concern. The tumble drier is a state of the art heat pump drier and on the occasion it gets used, I suppose we'll have to save up to pay the bill. All the white goods in the house are all less than a year old and are premium quality, quite low risk of a fire really. I dare say you have a wine cellar, whilst us mere plebeian types have to use something else to store the wine.

Well there you are. As I said I do not know your personal circumstances. Actually my cool garage serves as a wine cellar but I do not drink a lot anyway, although I do use a lot of ice cubes!

I have a couple of fridge/freezers but I do not think they use much electricity.

Dod

Dod

I suspect you might be shocked, especially if they are a number of years old. I was actually surprised at the baseload of our cooling appliances. They're all the latest technology appliances by Liebherr, don't really come any more efficient, presently anyway.

[AF62]

An aside. We have discovered that while we're asleep, we have a 0.5kw base load through the night (and day, obviously). This must be the refrigerator, the freezer and the wine cooler. So, running those is going to increase from 7p per hour to around 20p for 20 hours every day. Nothing we can do about that other than get rid of those three appliances. And that's not going to happen.

0.5kW seems quite high as that would be 12kWh a day.

When my house is unoccupied it uses around 4.4kWh a day which works out as a base load of around 0.18kW - I was away from mid Jan to mid March this year and I can see that the consumption for the whole of February was only 122.9kWh.

Unoccupied my house continues to run most things that are run whilst occupied (the fridge freezer, broadband, lighting, etc. - I keep the lighting, etc. running for security) so it is only the addition of washing machine, dishwasher, tv, and gas central heating pump that runs when I am home (plus obviously the EV charger).

I would be investing what is causing you such a high base load as that difference (0.5 vs 0.18) equates to over £1,000 a year.

[Dod101]

So..... It seems the Octopus EV tariff without the need for a new smart EV charger is the way to go. There's a four hour period each night where the electric tariff is 7.5p per unit. So, in fact that's a bit more than half what we presently pay to charge the PHEV (presently 14p a unit at any time). It does however mean that we will have to be disciplined and set the PHEV to charge only on the four hour period.

One side benefit of the non smart EV tariff is that Octopus will not be able to determine that we can timeshift the washing machine, dishwasher and the tumble drier to that four hour period too. So we can choose to run the appliances at night on 7.5p per unit should we be disciplined enough to do so. Faced with upwards of 40p a unit, I think we're going to have to get used to the mild inconvenience.

An aside. We have discovered that while we're asleep, we have a 0.5kw base load through the night (and day, obviously). This must be the refrigerator, the freezer and the wine cooler. So, running those is going to increase from 7p per hour to around 20p for 20 hours every day. Nothing we can do about that other than get rid of those three appliances. And that's not going to happen.

If I may be so bold as to make a few comments here. Obviously I do not know your personal circumstances, but I got rid of my tumble drier when it broke down and have not replaced it (nor missed it). They use a lot of electricity. A wine cooler? Who are you catering for? My fridge does the job.

Using a dishwasher and washing machine at night seems superficially a good idea, until, that is, something goes wrong and you are wakened by your fire alarm or, at least as bad, water everywhere. It happens.

Dod

Thank you for your concern. The tumble drier is a state of the art heat pump drier and on the occasion it gets used, I suppose we'll have to save up to pay the bill. All the white goods in the house are all less than a year old and are premium quality, quite low risk of a fire really. I dare say you have a wine cellar, whilst us mere plebeian types have to use something else to store the wine.

Well there you are. As I said I do not know your personal circumstances. Actually my cool garage serves as a wine cellar but I do not drink a lot anyway, although I do use a lot of ice cubes!

I have a couple of fridge/freezers but I do not think they use much electricity.

Dod

Dod

I suspect you might be shocked, especially if they are a number of years old. I was actually surprised at the baseload of our cooling appliances. They're all the latest technology appliances by Liebherr, don't really come any more efficient, presently anyway.

I know for certain that they are both over five years old and probably more like ten. The one with a label is from Bosch and it tells me that its efficiency rating is A, which I expect is completely meaningless. The refrigerator compartment is icefree of course and I defrost the freezer part from time to time, but I will accept that they probably do use quite a lot of electricity. However, we need to live!

Dod

[Stompa]

The one with a label is from Bosch and it tells me that its efficiency rating is A, which I expect is completely meaningless.

Just to confuse matters, energy ratings were re-calibrated a while ago. So it's not as easy as it was to compare old appliances with new ones.

https://www.johnlewis.com/buying-guides ... ying-guide

[BullDog]

An aside. We have discovered that while we're asleep, we have a 0.5kw base load through the night (and day, obviously). This must be the refrigerator, the freezer and the wine cooler. So, running those is going to increase from 7p per hour to around 20p for 20 hours every day. Nothing we can do about that other than get rid of those three appliances. And that's not going to happen.

0.5kW seems quite high as that would be 12kWh a day.

When my house is unoccupied it uses around 4.4kWh a day which works out as a base load of around 0.18kW - I was away from mid Jan to mid March this year and I can see that the consumption for the whole of February was only 122.9kWh.

Unoccupied my house continues to run most things that are run whilst occupied (the fridge freezer, broadband, lighting, etc. - I keep the lighting, etc. running for security) so it is only the addition of washing machine, dishwasher, tv, and gas central heating pump that runs when I am home (plus obviously the EV charger).

I would be investing what is causing you such a high base load as that difference (0.5 vs 0.18) equates to over £1,000 a year.

Thanks for the thoughts. It's Mrs BD who gave me the overnight consumption from the display linked to the mains smart meter. You have me thinking, maybe either Mrs BD has made an error in what she's telling me, or I have misunderstood. Thanks again.

[BullDog]

An aside. We have discovered that while we're asleep, we have a 0.5kw base load through the night (and day, obviously). This must be the refrigerator, the freezer and the wine cooler. So, running those is going to increase from 7p per hour to around 20p for 20 hours every day. Nothing we can do about that other than get rid of those three appliances. And that's not going to happen.

0.5kW seems quite high as that would be 12kWh a day.

When my house is unoccupied it uses around 4.4kWh a day which works out as a base load of around 0.18kW - I was away from mid Jan to mid March this year and I can see that the consumption for the whole of February was only 122.9kWh.

Unoccupied my house continues to run most things that are run whilst occupied (the fridge freezer, broadband, lighting, etc. - I keep the lighting, etc. running for security) so it is only the addition of washing machine, dishwasher, tv, and gas central heating pump that runs when I am home (plus obviously the EV charger).

I would be investing what is causing you such a high base load as that difference (0.5 vs 0.18) equates to over £1,000 a year.

Thanks for the thoughts. It's Mrs BD who gave me the overnight consumption from the display linked to the mains smart meter. You have me thinking, maybe either Mrs BD has made an error in what she's telling me, or I have misunderstood. Thanks again.

OK. Asked Mrs BD about the night time base load. From midnight to 6.00am this morning the display that's linked to the smart electric meter showed 3kw/hrs consumption. 0.5kw per hour. We have all less than a year old fridge, freezer, wine cooler plus a two PIR LED lights and two LED lights lit during dark hours. Plus a couple of alarm clocks etc... So the majority of the 0.5kw baseload has to be the three cooling appliances. I guess if you say each cooling appliance is around a 120w load and there's three of them running, it starts to make some sense. (The fridge and the freezer are both about 2m tall, they're quite large appliances). Thanks for the interest.

[UncleEbenezer]

A wine cooler? Who are you catering for? My fridge does the job.
Dod

Um, not equivalent. A wine cooler does long-term storage, not at fridge temperature but at cellar temperature: I think 12 degrees is traditional. That's also better than a fridge for a range of food products, like most fruit&veg, or cheese. Not to mention English "warm" beer!

I had one (actually a three-way fridge/freezer/larder) for some of my time in Italy, and have missed it ever since.