Energy costs. Oh dear.......

[Dod101]

agreed @scrumpyjack
Nor when they lost billions owing to the Deepwater disaster
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater ... _oil_spill

But they should get no sympathy for the Deepwater/Macondo disaster.

Dod

[Dod101]

Some re-calibration is coming whether people like it or not. A bloke on the wireless was pointing out that the gas price will keep on rising until a balance is achieved between demand and supply.

Well that sounds pretty obvious. The point is as has been mentioned that people will have to get used to cooler conditions whether they like it or not.

Personally I have enough logs for my woodburner until about mid February and oil for my boiler until hopefully about the same time. I am only now looking at electricity and I use very little so this next winter should be OK for me. These provisions were at a cost of course but I like to be prepared and do not mind paying in advance.

Dod

[UncleEbenezer]

Though I do like my hot shower. And very occasional hot bath. Not to mention my hot food & drinks.

Those take a trivial amount of energy compared to keeping the whole of an average family house at 22 degrees C 24/7/365

Ugh. My living room didn't quite reach 22 even in the recent heatwave (big thick stone walls help there). Getting soft in my old age, I turned the thermostat up as high as 13 a few times last winter, but only when feeling a bit under par. And that's far more than I could've contemplated - let alone afforded - before about 15 years ago. That'll be why my total bills have always been less than the savings I'm supposed to be able to make by switching supplier according to Prophets of Entitlement like Martin Lewis.

as most people expect nowadays.

Most people?

Or perhaps the Chattering Classes? And people incited by campaigners in search of vox pops to expect that kind of heat?

[BullDog]

And back on topic....... So we have had our Octopus GO tariff running for a while now. On the Octopus app we have been surprised just how successful the strategy of timeshifting our energy usage is. Typically, in a 24 hour period we are presently using between about 14 to 16 kw/hr of electricity. I estimate probably 80% of our daily electricity consumption is now between 12.30 and 04.30 each day. When we have another week or so history I will download the csv file from the Octopus app and see if I can determine more accurately the peak and off peak consumption.

We have timeshifted the following to only run on the four hour off peak tariff. Some or all of these now only run in the off peak period - PHEV charger, washing machine, dishwasher. In the winter when drying washing the (heat pump) drier will be used only in that period too.

Seems that so far we should have made a significant dent in the price we are paying for our electricity consumption. In the winter we will obviously be using the gas central heating and the gas price is 3x what it was previously. There's not a lot I can do there.

[scrumpyjack]

Good to see the price of oil for our boiler steadily coming down. It is now much cheaper than other form of heating.
I will hang on to our oil boiler as long as possible, unless electricity becomes free following the discovery and implementation of fusion power

Also totally agree about warm base layers! Insulate the person, rather than heat the house

[scotview]

And back on topic....... So we have had our Octopus GO tariff running for a while now.

Thanks for posting that. This is where these boards are really invaluable.
Our fixed tariff has ended and our next move is probably to octopus for BEV, washing machine etc. Look forward to your next update.

Coincidentally, I have a very good handle on our gas heating now, re control and monitoring.

Our Hot Water cylinder heating was a bit of a mystery but I've, just yesterday, fitted a Bluetooth temperature logger, £25
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08 ... UTF8&psc=1
This is starting to show what the cylinder is doing. Temperature should be 60 degrees but I don't think the sensor is adequately touching the tank. More work needed. Looks like cylinder cycle is 5 hours. App screenshot below.

[richlist]

And back on topic....... So we have had our Octopus GO tariff running for a while now.

Thanks for posting that. This is where these boards are really invaluable.
Our fixed tariff has ended and our next move is probably to octopus for BEV, washing machine etc. Look forward to your next update.

Coincidentally, I have a very good handle on our gas heating now, re control and monitoring.

Our Hot Water cylinder heating was a bit of a mystery but I've, just yesterday, fitted a Bluetooth temperature logger, £25
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08 ... UTF8&psc=1
This is starting to show what the cylinder is doing. Temperature should be 60 degrees but I don't think the sensor is adequately touching the tank. More work needed. Looks like cylinder cycle is 5 hours. App screenshot below.

I elected to go for the alternative.......solar panels. That gives me free everything during the day including domestic hot water. Not completely free in the winter months but considerably less than I'd be paying without them

[BullDog]

And back on topic....... So we have had our Octopus GO tariff running for a while now.

Thanks for posting that. This is where these boards are really invaluable.
Our fixed tariff has ended and our next move is probably to octopus for BEV, washing machine etc. Look forward to your next update.

Coincidentally, I have a very good handle on our gas heating now, re control and monitoring.

Our Hot Water cylinder heating was a bit of a mystery but I've, just yesterday, fitted a Bluetooth temperature logger, £25
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08 ... UTF8&psc=1
This is starting to show what the cylinder is doing. Temperature should be 60 degrees but I don't think the sensor is adequately touching the tank. More work needed. Looks like cylinder cycle is 5 hours. App screenshot below.

Thanks, glad to be of help. I recently discovered that the hot water cylinder thermostat was set to 80 degree C, so it has been set down to 60. Presently, the gas heats the water in the summer months whilst the central heating is off. With the changes in tariffs, it might actually be marginal now whether the gas is cheaper for water heating than running the electric immersion heater would be. We are paying 7.3p per kw/hr for gas, almost 3x times the previous rate. And we pay 7p per kw/hr for electricity on the off peak tariff. Given the relative efficiencies of burning gas v electricity to heat the hot water cylinder, it's very marginal which is the best option for water heating in the summer months. For now I'm not going to think any more about it.

One other thing to mention. Having the off peak tariff for the large majority of our electricity use means that solar PV is even less attractive for us than it was before. At 7p per kw/hr a 3kw solar PV won't pay back in my remaining lifetime. Interesting stuff in a geeky kind of way.

I definitely recommend anyone with a BEV or a PHEV switching to one of the BEV/PHEV tariffs.

[scotview]

I elected to go for the alternative.......solar panels. That gives me free everything during the day including domestic hot water. Not completely free in the winter months but considerably less than I'd be paying without them

Up with us teuchters in the tundra, I cant justify solar panels in the looooooong winter.

Battery storage with low off peak recharging looks more cost effective for our situation (especially having paid a standing charge !), I think that would give this grippy Aberdonian best bang for buck and would make the forthcoming power cuts/rationing more tolerable and provide more secure 4 day back up.

Still looking into it.

[BullDog]

I elected to go for the alternative.......solar panels. That gives me free everything during the day including domestic hot water. Not completely free in the winter months but considerably less than I'd be paying without them

Up with us teuchters in the tundra, I cant justify solar panels in the looooooong winter.

Battery storage with low off peak recharging looks more cost effective for our situation (especially having paid a standing charge !), I think that would give this grippy Aberdonian best bang for buck and would make the forthcoming power cuts/rationing more tolerable and provide more secure 4 day back up.

Still looking into it.

It has crossed my mind that our fridge and our freezer which are switched on 24x7 could be run off an interuptible power supply set to charge 00.30 to 04.30 and then switched off. Thus we would be running the fridge and freezer on 7p per unit power rather than 40p per unit. Doing this would shift the only other significant 24x7 load on to the off peak tariff. But I presently haven't measured the real life consumption of the freezer or fridge. So it's just an idea at the moment.

The other big power user is the electric double oven. But that's not running 24x7, of course.

I think that strategy would be a lot more cost effective than a battery storage array of several kw/hr.

[UncleEbenezer]

The other big power user is the electric double oven. But that's not running 24x7, of course.

Depending on your patterns of cooking, a smaller oven might be a big saving.

My regular builtin oven hardly ever gets used these days (OK, that's primarily because it's crap). I have a much smaller worktop multifunction cooker that does a great job using far less energy on single meals, such as the pair of bhajis I've just had for lunch (which I'd consider desperately wasteful in a regular oven).

[BullDog]

The other big power user is the electric double oven. But that's not running 24x7, of course.

Depending on your patterns of cooking, a smaller oven might be a big saving.

My regular builtin oven hardly ever gets used these days (OK, that's primarily because it's crap). I have a much smaller worktop multifunction cooker that does a great job using far less energy on single meals, such as the pair of bhajis I've just had for lunch (which I'd consider desperately wasteful in a regular oven).

Indeed. We have a Panasonic (actually John Lewis but it's a Panasonic) combination oven which we use maybe 50% of the time. It's rated 1000w versus one of the two main ovens which are each rated at 3.2w. The main oven(s) are mostly used on Sundays if we do a traditional roast.

[pje16]

I have the same Panasonic oven, it's so much more efficient then a traditional one
I don't fry anything anymore all done on the grill
bye bye fried eggs, poached or scrambled in the microwave

[UncleEbenezer]

I don't fry anything anymore all done on the grill

How do you grill a stir-fry?

And thinking of some of the other things one fries, trying to grill them would seem to thwart my efforts to incorporate flavoursome ingredients - all kinds of herbs and spices, and even down to plain ol' onions.

Besides, isn't the grill pretty energy-intensive and wasteful? Though I guess it shares with frying the virtue of being much quicker than oven-cooking.

[pje16]

Not a fan of those anymore
had heart issues a few years ago so
now I stay away from frying as much as poss
If I do there I use just a splash of Extra Virgin Olive Oil

[scotview]

I see UK gas is approaching £400/therm.

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/uk-natural-gas

The Bank of England press conference was pretty dismissive and shoulder shrugging.

I dont think folk realise the gravity of the situation in the UK. There could very well be civil unrest this winter.

[BullDog]

I see UK gas is approaching £400/therm.

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/uk-natural-gas

The Bank of England press conference was pretty dismissive and shoulder shrugging.

I dont think folk realise the gravity of the situation in the UK. There could very well be civil unrest this winter.

Whoever Truss (or Sunak) appoints as chancellor will be told to just pluck the nagic money tree even more then they already have. Robbing even more money from the next generation who will have to pay it back.

[richlist]

If you really want to save money throughout the spring & summer cooking in the garden on a bbq and/or small bottled gas hob costs virtually nothing. I pick up gas bottles throughout the year for peanuts on eBay & other sites. You aren't chained to the kitchen if you want to cook a meal.

[scrumpyjack]

I see UK gas is approaching £400/therm.

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/uk-natural-gas

The Bank of England press conference was pretty dismissive and shoulder shrugging.

I dont think folk realise the gravity of the situation in the UK. There could very well be civil unrest this winter.

Whoever Truss (or Sunak) appoints as chancellor will be told to just pluck the nagic money tree even more then they already have. Robbing even more money from the next generation who will have to pay it back.

Why will they pay it back? Can you tell me of any time any British Government has paid back debt. They always kick the can down the road.
The only sense in which they ever reduce it is a a percentage of GDP. That isn't paying it back,

[scrumpyjack]

I see UK gas is approaching £400/therm.

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/uk-natural-gas

The Bank of England press conference was pretty dismissive and shoulder shrugging.

I dont think folk realise the gravity of the situation in the UK. There could very well be civil unrest this winter.

I think you mean 400 pence per therm, don't you!?