The Lemon Fool

mc2fool wrote:As we all know, keeping a lid on makes it boil more vigorously, 'cos it keeps heat in more rather than letting it escape, and while (unless the lid is tight enough to form a pressure cooker effect) technically, yes, the water is still at 100C, the steam in the water (which is what is the boiling) will be hotter, so more steam (i.e. more boil) hotter pasta, right?

Er no, the pasta is in the water, not the steam. And as you say, the water is at 100C

Scott.

NotSure wrote:

mc2fool wrote: ... yes, Italians insist on salting the water, but if it's 'cos "hotter water, better pasta" then why do they also insist that pasta be boiled without a lid on the saucepan?

I'm guessing the same reason? You have to turn the heat down if there's a lid (which is what I do BTW). No lid, you can let the pan "boil free", i.e reach 100 C?

once the water is boiling you don't need full heat to keep it boiling, just "enough" heat. At sea level etc etc fresh water boils at 100 degrees, whether its just enough heat to keep it there or a flamethrower or ten directed at the pan's base. more heat doesnt mean higher temperatures, lower flames don't necessarily equate to lower temperatures (past a threshold of flame)

However, putting a lid on it could create a mini pressure cooker scenario which would also raise the boiling point. Open pans lose steam, and dont have that pressure.

didds

swill453 wrote:

mc2fool wrote:As we all know, keeping a lid on makes it boil more vigorously, 'cos it keeps heat in more rather than letting it escape, and while (unless the lid is tight enough to form a pressure cooker effect) technically, yes, the water is still at 100C, the steam in the water (which is what is the boiling) will be hotter, so more steam (i.e. more boil) hotter pasta, right?

Er no, the pasta is in the water, not the steam. And as you say, the water is at 100C

Scott.

The pasta is surrounded by steam, that's what the bubbles in the water are when it's boiling....

mc2fool wrote:The pasta is surrounded by steam, that's what the bubbles in the water are when it's boiling....

Whether or not the steam bubbling through the water raises detectable temperature reaching the pasta (and I personally doubt it), it won't be affected by whether the lid is on or not, which was the point being made.

Scott.

didds wrote:However, putting a lid on it could create a mini pressure cooker scenario which would also raise the boiling point.

I doubt it. I agree with the rest of what you said.

Scott.

swill453 wrote:

mc2fool wrote:The pasta is surrounded by steam, that's what the bubbles in the water are when it's boiling....

Whether or not the steam bubbling through the water raises detectable temperature reaching the pasta (and I personally doubt it), it won't be affected by whether the lid is on or not, which was the point being made.

Scott.

Lid on means boiling more vigorously means bigger/more bubbles means more steam (in the water) means (probably) hotter environment for the pasta as the steam, by definition, is at least at 100C and will be more in places. Whether it's notably hotter .... dunno ... my guess is not much.

But, as I say, I'm not convinced by the "hotter water, better pasta" hypothesis (then why don't they cook it in pressure cookers?), and by my experience living in Italy (only about a year in total) Italians put salt in the water for flavouring reasons, I've never heard of it being done to raise the temperature.

But my core question remains, why do they also insist on cooking pasta with the lid off?

didds wrote:Im aware that salt raises the boiling point etc.

Im sceptical about whether the water boiling at 101 degrees rather than 100 makes a huge amount of difference to the pasta we eat, and better results would proably be found initially by just buying better pasta to start with, or making our own each time.

Its not a hill Im going to die on, but Im unconvinced personally.

Good choice of words given up the hill, the water boils at a lower temperature!

mc2fool wrote:But my core question remains, why do they also insist on cooking pasta with the lid off?

To be honest I'd never heard that they did. Their kitchens must be steamy places.

I bet they couldn't tell the difference in a blind taste test.

Scott.

I'm pretty sure Thomas Aquinas resolved this whole pasta temperature debate back in the 13th century.

swill453 wrote:

mc2fool wrote:But my core question remains, why do they also insist on cooking pasta with the lid off?

To be honest I'd never heard that they did. Their kitchens must be steamy places.

I bet they couldn't tell the difference in a blind taste test.

Scott.

Oh I've heard it, along with salting the water, many times. Most of my time in Italy was on various "camps" - archaeology digs, environmental projects, local history projects and the like - all involving communal living (usually in buildings, not in tents) and participants taking turns to cook for the group of 10-30, and at just about every one some international (i.e. non-Italian) cook was told off for cooking pasta with the lid on and/or not salting the water.

Mind you, I discovered that Italians tend to baulk at anything that isn't cooked like their mother did and/or isn't done in the traditional way (which is much the same thing)!

For one group I made saltimbocca but lacking sage I put some rosemary in the middle instead and you should have seen the raised eyebrows and mumbled comments about that ... although everybody, without exception, did, reluctantly and in the end, agree it was actually really good.

stevensfo wrote:

GeoffF100 wrote:Cook pasta more cheaply, by bring the water to the boil with the lid on, and then turning the gas off:

https://www.ansa.it/english/news/2022/0 ... 87f37.html

I've been doing this for years, with rice as well. As long as it's been boiling for a while to kill any nasties, it gives more control over getting it just right. Nothing worse than too-soft pasta or rice! Reminds me of school dinners.

I also do this with our gas bbq, though mainly cos when my wife says that everything is ready and we can eat, it translates into at least another ten minutes! I also know that it tastes nicer if cooked more slowly. I get it up to about 200'C, wait a minute, then switch off the gas. Repeat ad infinitum!

Ah but with rice there is the issue of the rice gradually absorbing the water. This in turn runs the risk of it boiling dry and burning the pan, having done that more than once myself. Keeping the lid on stops the moisture from escaping thereby reducing the risk of boiling dry.

Pasta doesn't absorb moisture in the same way. When making pasta I am usually steaming something over the pan as well, so that implies a lid on top of the steamer which is on top of the pan.

Since you mentioned BBQ as well, I have a kamado type of grill and so always have the lid closed. That means a lower burn rate and of course confers a more woody or smoky favour to the meat.

The business with adding salt is surely just for taste. Far too many people use far too much salt in cooking generally. I have pretty much got to the point now of never adding salt to anything, either in the dish or on the plate. It is one of those things that you don't miss once you wean yourself off it, much like sugar.

My wife cooks completely without salt, and since it's to her taste so do I.

I do, however, add salt at the table to most things*, after tasting of course.

* - even to low salt baked beans

Scott.

mc2fool wrote:
Mind you, I discovered that Italians tend to baulk at anything that isn't cooked like their mother did and/or isn't done in the traditional way (which is much the same thing)!

I refer the honourable member to the answer I gave a short while ago

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