Gas useage

[melonfool]

I'm going to book the service in today and ask them in advance to check this, plus to turn off any pre heat. I'll also ask them about topping up the inhibitor.

And I'll book to have you that small radiator replaced, even though it's not the problem I might as well get it done.

Mel

[Mike4]

I'm going to book the service in today and ask them in advance to check this, plus to turn off any pre heat. I'll also ask them about topping up the inhibitor.

And I'll book to have you that small radiator replaced, even though it's not the problem I might as well get it done.

Mel

My advice is not to be vague. Tell them there is a pressure loss problem only when hot, and you suspect the boiler heat exchanger which is why you are booking the service. In addition to to the core service, you'd like to hear what they can do in detail they can do to test the heat exchanger inside the boiler for water tightness when hot, and how much extra this will cost.

I suggest this because frankly, I can't think of anything that can be done beyond a cursory visual inspection of the condensate output while the burners are OFF but the boiler still hot, and I don't think this will reveal much given the slow nature of the leak. I think if I'd been engaged to fix this I'd be suggesting going straight to fitting a new heat exchanger as a speculative repair, but with no guarantees of it fixing it.

These slow leaks really are an intractable problem with sealed systems and I avoid getting involved as the time gets soaked up investigating and so often, no cause is ever found in which case I feel unable to present a bill for failing. So I don't accept the commissions in the first place.

A different approach is to convert the system to open-vented with a header tank.

[TheMotorcycleBoy]

I'm going to book the service in today and ask them in advance to check this, plus to turn off any pre heat. I'll also ask them about topping up the inhibitor.

And I'll book to have you that small radiator replaced, even though it's not the problem I might as well get it done.

Mel

My advice is not to be vague. Tell them there is a pressure loss problem only when hot, and you suspect the boiler heat exchanger which is why you are booking the service. In addition to to the core service, you'd like to hear what they can do in detail they can do to test the heat exchanger inside the boiler for water tightness when hot, and how much extra this will cost.

I suggest this because frankly, I can't think of anything that can be done beyond a cursory visual inspection of the condensate output while the burners are OFF but the boiler still hot, and I don't think this will reveal much given the slow nature of the leak. I think if I'd been engaged to fix this I'd be suggesting going straight to fitting a new heat exchanger as a speculative repair, but with no guarantees of it fixing it.

These slow leaks really are an intractable problem with sealed systems and I avoid getting involved as the time gets soaked up investigating and so often, no cause is ever found in which case I feel unable to present a bill for failing. So I don't accept the commissions in the first place.

A different approach is to convert the system to open-vented with a header tank.

My overwhelming experience with un pressurised systems is that many very small leaks quickly seal themselves up with calcification/oxidation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as fussy as the next guy, with checking my work after a couple of hours, and very gently nipping any compression fittings that may happen to leak (as I usually aim to under not overtighten). But often I've just wrapped tissue round v minor weeps, and looked back in a few days to find them bone dry!

Matt

[modellingman]

Mainly prompted by this thread and Mel's OP containing her gas meter reading history, I went onto my online account with British Gas this morning expecting to see quite a lot of my metering reading history data available for me to look at. Smart meters were installed at my home a good number of years ago and were set to provide half-hourly meter readings. My expectations were not met. The online account tells me that the only meter readings being made available are those used to issue bills. British Gas only issues bills every six months, though the meter readings are probably shown at approximately monthly intervals.

I find this quite unbelievable. If consumers are to get some insight into their patterns of consumption, as Mel is quite clearly attempting to do, then why not make the meter reading/consumption data available to the individual consumer that generated it? No data protection issues involved. If the banks (through the open banking initiative) can get to the stage where individuals can authorise third party services to access their transaction data, I don't see why it should not be possible for the energy supply industry to do something similar with meter reading/energy consumption data. All(!) that is required, as in the case of banking, is a bit of political and regulatory vision with the follow through of regulatory action to make it happen.

Perhaps, stupidly, I have submitted an enquiry to British Gas enquiring as to why I cannot access the detailed consumption data that I am choosing to
provide them with (through my choices of installing a smart meter and allowing it to submit half hourly readings). The text of my enquiry is reproduced below.

I'm not actually expecting anything meaningful in response and I regard the time spent composing my enquiry as a catharsis as much as anything else. But you never know, so I'll endeavour to update this thread if anything sensible emerges. As I note, my expectations are that this will not be the case.

My enquiry to British Gas:

My smart meter sends you half-hourly meter readings. So you have massive amounts of data that I am allowing you to collect. However, when I look at my account on your website there are only a very limited number of my meter readings being made available to me. Why is that? It would be useful to me and no doubt quite a lot of other numerate consumers to have access to the much more detailed meter reading history and consumption data derived from this. It might be smart metering but current practice as evidenced from the above it is far from smart. I used to work in the industry (and was involved at the forefront of load research for daily domestic gas demand in the 80's and 90's) and I have to say the industry and you as a company have gone backwards from the days when I was involved (in an old region of the British Gas Corporation). If the country is serious about the looming energy crisis, net-zero targets and all the rest then providing customers with much better access to the personal data that suppliers such as British Gas hold about them is one of the many keys to doing this. Third party services would probably spring up in a jiffy if the data were made available. So why is it not being made available? Don't even think about telling me that only readings used for billing purposes are made available through the website - I can see that and what I'm asking why the rest of the readings aren't being made available. Please push this one up the line because it is a matter of policy, not operations. If I don't get a satisfactory answer, I will take it further, much further, so please view this enquiry as an opportunity.

modellingman

Bad form to reply to your own post, I know, but I did say I would update the thread in the event that anything sensible emerges.

I'm not sure that "sensible" is the appropriate word but here goes.

British Gas did respond and fairly promptly, expressing concern that I could not access my smart meter information. <humble_pie> Turns out I can. I had failed to notice the link labelled "Energy Usage" in a list of links when logged into my online account. This, from someone who first used and attempted to program a computer some fifty years ago whilst in the sixth-form, has built simple websites and computer based models with complex user interfaces! A sign of age, perhaps.</humble_pie>

The information provided was exclusively graphical in nature comprising bar charts which could display a time series of consumption values (expressed in kWh or as financial values) as half-hourly values over a day, daily values over a month or monthly values over a year. Graphs had options for displaying gas or electricity values or both combined. So limited but of some value.

British Gas also informed that they had plans to provide downloadable data next year but no plans to provide API access.

By coincidence, at the end of July I inherited an account administered by Octopus at one of my letting properties which became and remains unoccupied. Octopus seem to have some fans here and whilst the website and online accounts might be good Octopus still exhibits the same problems that I encountered when dealing with Bulb some time ago. These are:

• failure to act on information provided, such as meter readings (provided by email prior to me being able to set up an online account) and noting that the property is empty and unoccupied
• delays in responding to correspondence - minimum of two weeks has been the case to date (probably not helped by the u-turns on energy support by UK government that are still ongoing)
• use of annual consumption estimates from the centralised industry balancing and settlement systems for the purposes of estimating consumptions for billing customers. Balancing and settlement values are inappropriate for billing when there is a significant change in consumption patterns such as when properties become or cease to become empty.

These elements were all part of my previous complaint against Bulb which succesfully went to the Energy Ombudsman.

I suspect history may well be repeating itself. Though Octopus has managed to trump Bulb by adding a lack of transparency in its bills to the charge sheet.

A wholesale adjustment was made to my bill yesterday in response to a call from Octopus the previous day which went along the lines of: Octopus - "you owe us £200, it needs to be paid, now"; me - "oh no, I don't because all 7 bills you have issued to me are based solely on estimated readings and are all works of fiction, why haven't you used the meter readings I sent 7 weeks ago?"

The adjustment on the latest bill amounted to £256 being added in credit to the account through some 16 "financial adjustments" but without relating these in any way to the fuels involved, the time periods involved or the revisions that have been made to previous consumption estimates showing on bills. As I note, completely lacking in transparency (and probably contravening the terms of their supplier licenses). I have asked for an explanation of where the numbers came from though I shall not hold my breath waiting.

modellingman

[melonfool]

Octopus sound as if they are doing the same to you as Eon did to me a year ago - ignoring my readings, billing on estimates, then when I got them to use the readings dumped them all in at once which made the annual usage estimate go up about 8-fold.

It's taken a year to work that through.

I'm interested in this:

use of annual consumption estimates from the centralised industry balancing and settlement systems for the purposes of estimating consumptions for billing customers. Balancing and settlement values are inappropriate for billing when there is a significant change in consumption patterns such as when properties become or cease to become empty.

For the longest time my electricity estimated annual usage was 2572, and that figure is used to keep the bills level through the year. When they dumped in the historic readings it went to 16182 and they wanted £500pm (I spend about £75pm on combined fuels, on the current rates, which are higher than at that time!).
They've gradually come down over the year and in August hit exactly 2572 again. It's weird how they do it and it lands on the same number!

But then in Sept it jumped again to 5867. No idea why. The only difference is that I did have one whole day of using the oven. And I got a smart meter......so I suspect it's the system only using the smart meter recordings and they are now suffering from the same problem I had with my gas usage figures - too short a reference period. It seems to me they are not referencing back to the readings from the previous meyer. So I expect I have another year of this rubbish again!
They're asking for £400pm.

By my own calculations my annual average should be around 2000. When I try to explain this to them they just say "we don't do it that way". I have no idea what way they do it but I am confident that it doesn't work!

Mel

[modellingman]

Octopus sound as if they are doing the same to you as Eon did to me a year ago - ignoring my readings, billing on estimates, then when I got them to use the readings dumped them all in at once which made the annual usage estimate go up about 8-fold.

It's taken a year to work that through.

I'm interested in this:

use of annual consumption estimates from the centralised industry balancing and settlement systems for the purposes of estimating consumptions for billing customers. Balancing and settlement values are inappropriate for billing when there is a significant change in consumption patterns such as when properties become or cease to become empty.

For the longest time my electricity estimated annual usage was 2572, and that figure is used to keep the bills level through the year. When they dumped in the historic readings it went to 16182 and they wanted £500pm (I spend about £75pm on combined fuels, on the current rates, which are higher than at that time!).
They've gradually come down over the year and in August hit exactly 2572 again. It's weird how they do it and it lands on the same number!

But then in Sept it jumped again to 5867. No idea why. The only difference is that I did have one whole day of using the oven. And I got a smart meter......so I suspect it's the system only using the smart meter recordings and they are now suffering from the same problem I had with my gas usage figures - too short a reference period. It seems to me they are not referencing back to the readings from the previous meyer. So I expect I have another year of this rubbish again!
They're asking for £400pm.

By my own calculations my annual average should be around 2000. When I try to explain this to them they just say "we don't do it that way". I have no idea what way they do it but I am confident that it doesn't work!

Mel

At a fairly superficial level there is an explanation for electricity of how the Balancing and Settlement system converts meter readings into an estimate of annual consumption that you can find buried in this presentation from Elexon - https://www.elexon.co.uk/operations-set ... llocation/ Elexon is the electricity industry's central body which undertakes all the Balancing and Settlement calculations. The relevant part is the 10 minutes between 11:30 and 21:30, the rest is how these annual consumption estimates fit into balancing and settlement.

Domestic customers are non-half hourly (NHH). Because the Elexon presentation is aimed at industry insiders, I'll add my own explanations to supplement the rather dry commentary of the presentation. There are two types of annual consumptions involved.

First when a meter reading is obtained (and customer reads count just as much as reads by an actual meter reader), the consumption between this read and the preceding read is determined and then annualised by using the relevant profile. The profile comprises 365 daily consumption proportions which sum to 1. If, for example, the sum of the profile values for the period between the two meter readings is 0.306, and the metered consumption over this period is 670 kWh then the annualised value is 670/0.306 = 2190 kWh. This annualised value is called the annualised advance (AA). The AA is a property of the period between two successive meter readings, so the AA might change substantially at each meter reading dependent on whether or not your consumption pattern is well represented by the profile.

A second estimate called the estimated annual consumption (EAC) is also updated whenever a meter reading is obtained. The updated EAC is a weighted average of the newly calculated AA and the previous EAC. Like AA's, EAC's are also a property of the period between two meter readings, but unlike AA's, an EAC exists for the period after the most recent meter reading. Balancing and Settlement calculations are undertaken for each half-hourly period but repèated a number of times, the first calculation is undertaken shortly after period ends and then repeated a number of times up to a last calculation around (IIRC) around 15 months after the half hour. Each calculation aggregates the annual consumptions of all a supplier's NHH customers in a particular profile class, utilising for each customer the AA from the relevant period if it exists and the EAC if it doesn't. The later part of the Elexon video explains how the aggregated annual consumption of what it calls the "super customer" is then changed into the appropriate half hourly consumption value applicable in aggregate across all the supplier's customers.

With it so far? For electricity (unlike for gas), I do not know the detailed rules that apply to the calculations of AA's and EAC's: for example I don't know if there is a minimum or maximum permissible period between successive meter readings that must be satisfied for a new AA to be calculated. Similarly, I don`t know what weights are used when updating the EAC. However, if short periods are possible or too much weight is given to the AA when updating the EAC then the calculated values are likely to display some volatility. Mathematically, the use of EAC's alongside AA's suggests that volatility might be a problem. In addition, I have no idea at all how smart meters fit into all this - I suspect not very well at the moment - or what happens when a meter is exchanged.

AA's and EAC's exist to support balancing and settlement. However, supply companies have decided mainly because they do not do their own load research (development of understanding of patterns of consumption by different types of customers) to use the balancing and settlement information (profiles and AA/EAC values) to estimate consumptions for billing purposes. I think that's lazy but understandable when the focus has been on the-more-the-merrier competition, minimising costs and an absence of monitoring of the quality of estimates made for billing purposes (thank OFGEM for all of these). Whilst volatility in the AA's and EAC's of individual customers presents the sort of problems you have identified, at the aggregate level (used in balancing and settlement) this volatility diminishes to the point of unimportance. It is this difference in volatility at individual and aggregate level that prompted to my comment that "Balancing and settlement values are inappropriate for billing". For electricity, I'm tempted drop the qualification "when there is a significant change in consumption patterns such as when properties become or cease to become empty."

Gas, where I have more detailed knowledge, is a bit more sophisticated. For starters, there are more profile classes intended to represent different types of customers: those who use gas but not for space heating, those who use it for some space heating, for full space heating, etc. Second, there's only one type of annual consumption. It is the equivalent of electricity's AA and is only updated when a new meter read is taken if there is a preceding meter reading available between 9 and 15 months previously. The 9-15 month consumption is annualised in a similar way to electricity. Overall, the annual consumption estimates on the gas side suffer fewer volatility problems than electricity but the condition about significant changes in consumption patterns still makes them less than ideal for use in customer billing systems.

I'm sure you already know this but I'll write it anyway. I would stick to taking regular meter readings of your own, use these to determine your own estimates of annual consumption, use your estimates to rubbish your supplier's versions (and the suggested monthly payment) and, if they don't listen, raise a complaint and when that gets to failure to agree take it to the energy ombudsman. Do it by email, phoning call centre agents will get you nowhere when pressing simple technical arguments. As I noted upthread, there is a lot of abuse by energy companies in determining DD values. A bit of pushback is no more than they deserve.

modellingman

[melonfool]

I'm sure you already know this but I'll write it anyway. I would stick to taking regular meter readings of your own, use these to determine your own estimates of annual consumption, use your estimates to rubbish your supplier's versions (and the suggested monthly payment) and, if they don't listen, raise a complaint and when that gets to failure to agree take it to the energy ombudsman. Do it by email, phoning call centre agents will get you nowhere when pressing simple technical arguments. As I noted upthread, there is a lot of abuse by energy companies in determining DD values. A bit of pushback is no more than they deserve.

The whole reason I agreed to the smart meter was so as not to have to keep doing my own readings because the electricity meter is in a really stupid place and it takes me a good half an hour to sort everything out so I can read it.

I looked into getting it moved but it would cost upwards of £500 so didn't really seem worth it.

Quite annoying to find that despite this I still have to take my own readings though!

Thank you for all that other information, I'll read that more carefully later and watch the video.

Mel

[Mike4]

I'm sure you already know this but I'll write it anyway. I would stick to taking regular meter readings of your own, use these to determine your own estimates of annual consumption, use your estimates to rubbish your supplier's versions (and the suggested monthly payment) and, if they don't listen, raise a complaint and when that gets to failure to agree take it to the energy ombudsman. Do it by email, phoning call centre agents will get you nowhere when pressing simple technical arguments. As I noted upthread, there is a lot of abuse by energy companies in determining DD values. A bit of pushback is no more than they deserve.

The whole reason I agreed to the smart meter was so as not to have to keep doing my own readings because the electricity meter is in a really stupid place and it takes me a good half an hour to sort everything out so I can read it.

I looked into getting it moved but it would cost upwards of £500 so didn't really seem worth it.

Quite annoying to find that despite this I still have to take my own readings though!

Thank you for all that other information, I'll read that more carefully later and watch the video.

Mel

But but.....

Do you not have access to the readings uploaded by your smart meter on your leccy supplier's website? (Or is this a case of me not reading the whole thread before commenting?!)

If you have, you'd only need to take a real meter reading once in a blue moon to satisfy yourself they are still in sync.

[chas49]

Moderator Message:
Just a note to clarify the last two posts have been edited to fix quotes (chas49)

[funduffer]

I'm sure you already know this but I'll write it anyway. I would stick to taking regular meter readings of your own, use these to determine your own estimates of annual consumption, use your estimates to rubbish your supplier's versions (and the suggested monthly payment) and, if they don't listen, raise a complaint and when that gets to failure to agree take it to the energy ombudsman. Do it by email, phoning call centre agents will get you nowhere when pressing simple technical arguments. As I noted upthread, there is a lot of abuse by energy companies in determining DD values. A bit of pushback is no more than they deserve.

The whole reason I agreed to the smart meter was so as not to have to keep doing my own readings because the electricity meter is in a really stupid place and it takes me a good half an hour to sort everything out so I can read it.

I looked into getting it moved but it would cost upwards of £500 so didn't really seem worth it.

Quite annoying to find that despite this I still have to take my own readings though!

Thank you for all that other information, I'll read that more carefully later and watch the video.

Mel

But but.....

Do you not have access to the readings uploaded by your smart meter on your leccy supplier's website? (Or is this a case of me not reading the whole thread before commenting?!)

If you have, you'd only need to take a real meter reading once in a blue moon to satisfy yourself they are still in sync.

…..or getting the reading from your in-house display?

[Mike4]

I'm sure you already know this but I'll write it anyway. I would stick to taking regular meter readings of your own, use these to determine your own estimates of annual consumption, use your estimates to rubbish your supplier's versions (and the suggested monthly payment) and, if they don't listen, raise a complaint and when that gets to failure to agree take it to the energy ombudsman. Do it by email, phoning call centre agents will get you nowhere when pressing simple technical arguments. As I noted upthread, there is a lot of abuse by energy companies in determining DD values. A bit of pushback is no more than they deserve.

The whole reason I agreed to the smart meter was so as not to have to keep doing my own readings because the electricity meter is in a really stupid place and it takes me a good half an hour to sort everything out so I can read it.

I looked into getting it moved but it would cost upwards of £500 so didn't really seem worth it.

Quite annoying to find that despite this I still have to take my own readings though!

Thank you for all that other information, I'll read that more carefully later and watch the video.

Mel

But but.....

Do you not have access to the readings uploaded by your smart meter on your leccy supplier's website? (Or is this a case of me not reading the whole thread before commenting?!)

If you have, you'd only need to take a real meter reading once in a blue moon to satisfy yourself they are still in sync.

…..or getting the reading from your in-house display?

Do the in-house displays actually display absolute readings?

I don't have one myself to fiddle with but those I see in customers' houses are usually only ever showing an "Energy used so far today" figure, and usually expressed in £ not kWhrs. Although I did see an electricity one the other day displaying the instantaneous power being consumed in real time. It was showing bang on 100W with everything practical in the house turned OFF.

[richlist]

My in house display doesn't show actual meter readings.
Mine has a touch screen that can select usage now, so far today, this week, this month, this year in £'s or kWh etc.
It seems to refresh the screen every 15 or 20 seconds when set on usage now.
I have no option to download any of the data.

[Gersemi]

My smart meter does show the meter readings. The normal display shows amount 'used so far today' in £s, but can be toggled round to show daily, weekly, monthly or year to date figures. Then there is a menu option, one of which is the meter readings.

Unfortunately it has lost connection to the electric meter so I can only get the gas readings. Apparently my energy supplier cannot resolve this, so I am back to reading the electricity meter. So getting the smart meter was largly a waste of time.

[tjh290633]

Do the in-house displays actually display absolute readings?

Mine does. Click on "OK", then Right Arrow four times to "Meter Information", which shows the electricity meter reading. Touch the one second from the left to switch to gas meter reading. Simple and done in a few seconds. I wish the Water meter did the same.

TJH

[funduffer]

Do the in-house displays actually display absolute readings?

Mine does. Click on "OK", then Right Arrow four times to "Meter Information", which shows the electricity meter reading. Touch the one second from the left to switch to gas meter reading. Simple and done in a few seconds. I wish the Water meter did the same.

TJH

Mine does as well, in the same way as tjh's.

It also shows gas and electricity usage by hour/day/week/month. The hourly numbers are wrong though - I once added up the 24 hourly readings and it was nowhere close to the corresponding daily value! I contacted my energy supplier and the manufacturer of the in-house display device, but they could not explain it! I think the other data is accurate though as I have checked them against meter readings.

The capability of the in-house display must vary by meter type.

It is a very convenient way of reading the meter.

FD

[melonfool]

I'm sure you already know this but I'll write it anyway. I would stick to taking regular meter readings of your own, use these to determine your own estimates of annual consumption, use your estimates to rubbish your supplier's versions (and the suggested monthly payment) and, if they don't listen, raise a complaint and when that gets to failure to agree take it to the energy ombudsman. Do it by email, phoning call centre agents will get you nowhere when pressing simple technical arguments. As I noted upthread, there is a lot of abuse by energy companies in determining DD values. A bit of pushback is no more than they deserve.

The whole reason I agreed to the smart meter was so as not to have to keep doing my own readings because the electricity meter is in a really stupid place and it takes me a good half an hour to sort everything out so I can read it.

I looked into getting it moved but it would cost upwards of £500 so didn't really seem worth it.

Quite annoying to find that despite this I still have to take my own readings though!

Thank you for all that other information, I'll read that more carefully later and watch the video.

Mel

But but.....

Do you not have access to the readings uploaded by your smart meter on your leccy supplier's website? (Or is this a case of me not reading the whole thread before commenting?!)

If you have, you'd only need to take a real meter reading once in a blue moon to satisfy yourself they are still in sync.

Yes, of course and I have them on the in-home display unit.

Modellingman is suggesting I take a 'proper' reading regularly and check it.

I'll do one this weekend, when I've got a spare hour or so!

The gas one is easy (if you don't mind spiders) but the leccy is in a cupboard, which is full of cups and tea etc, so I have to totally empty the cupboard, take the shelves out (which are glass so have to be carefully placed) then take off the rear 'wall' of the cupboard and the meter is behind that, but it's slightly lower than the aperture, so to take a photo (which I always do) I have to hold the phone very carefully down in the hole, where I can't actually really see it, and ensure I don't drop it into the wall cavity, and somehow press the photo button - all while reaching across the kitchen units and into the back of a cupboard.

The fuses are also there. So convenient.... Though to be fair the fuse box is above the meter so it's a bit less tricky to get to.

Mel

Mel

[Mike4]

I'm sure you already know this but I'll write it anyway. I would stick to taking regular meter readings of your own, use these to determine your own estimates of annual consumption, use your estimates to rubbish your supplier's versions (and the suggested monthly payment) and, if they don't listen, raise a complaint and when that gets to failure to agree take it to the energy ombudsman. Do it by email, phoning call centre agents will get you nowhere when pressing simple technical arguments. As I noted upthread, there is a lot of abuse by energy companies in determining DD values. A bit of pushback is no more than they deserve.

The whole reason I agreed to the smart meter was so as not to have to keep doing my own readings because the electricity meter is in a really stupid place and it takes me a good half an hour to sort everything out so I can read it.

I looked into getting it moved but it would cost upwards of £500 so didn't really seem worth it.

Quite annoying to find that despite this I still have to take my own readings though!

Thank you for all that other information, I'll read that more carefully later and watch the video.

Mel

But but.....

Do you not have access to the readings uploaded by your smart meter on your leccy supplier's website? (Or is this a case of me not reading the whole thread before commenting?!)

If you have, you'd only need to take a real meter reading once in a blue moon to satisfy yourself they are still in sync.

Yes, of course and I have them on the in-home display unit.

Modellingman is suggesting I take a 'proper' reading regularly and check it.

I'll do one this weekend, when I've got a spare hour or so!

The gas one is easy (if you don't mind spiders) but the leccy is in a cupboard, which is full of cups and tea etc, so I have to totally empty the cupboard, take the shelves out (which are glass so have to be carefully placed) then take off the rear 'wall' of the cupboard and the meter is behind that, but it's slightly lower than the aperture, so to take a photo (which I always do) I have to hold the phone very carefully down in the hole, where I can't actually really see it, and ensure I don't drop it into the wall cavity, and somehow press the photo button - all while reaching across the kitchen units and into the back of a cupboard.

The fuses are also there. So convenient.... Though to be fair the fuse box is above the meter so it's a bit less tricky to get to.

Mel

Mel

Blimey!

Who built the cupboard? You should make them take the readings, that'll teach them!

I bet they box in things that break like shower pumps and boilers too... Or worse, put them in lofts....

[melonfool]

Yes, to all the above questions - the meter reading for electricity is on the in-home display unit. Not the gas though, no idea why not.

It shows all sorts of anxiety-inducing information. Like how much fuel you are using RIGHT NOW but per hour, so when you put the kettle on it goes through the roof but of course you don't use the kettle for an hour anyway (electric only, gas is 30 minutes behind) and how much you have spent already today. The latter confuses me as I have 'spent' about £1.20 when I get up in the morning (on electricity) - now some is standing charge, then there are the usual things that are on all the time. But since I go to bed at more or less the same time, and get up at the same time, and do literally exactly the same when I am asleep in bed every night - why does this vary so much from about £1.05 to £1.50? What is my house doing when I am asleep?

Also, it has a random 'budget' set into it which I never set, and if it gets near this imaginary budget it goes amber, then red. Which is really annoying when the 'budget' seems to be c£3 per day - that's c£90pm which by anyone's standards isn't *that* much to spend on fuel monthly, surely? It's going to fly off the surface when I turn the heating on!

I might turn it off.

Mel

[DrFfybes]

The gas one is easy (if you don't mind spiders) but the leccy is in a cupboard, which is full of cups and tea etc, so I have to totally empty the cupboard, take the shelves out (which are glass so have to be carefully placed) then take off the rear 'wall' of the cupboard and the meter is behind that, but it's slightly lower than the aperture, so to take a photo (which I always do) I have to hold the phone very carefully down in the hole, where I can't actually really see it, and ensure I don't drop it into the wall cavity, and somehow press the photo button - all while reaching across the kitchen units and into the back of a cupboard.

The fuses are also there. So convenient.... Though to be fair the fuse box is above the meter so it's a bit less tricky to get to.

Mel

So no "Beware of the Leopard" sign?

[daveh]

My in house display doesn't show actual meter readings.
Mine has a touch screen that can select usage now, so far today, this week, this month, this year in £'s or kWh etc.
It seems to refresh the screen every 15 or 20 seconds when set on usage now.
I have no option to download any of the data.

Mine does, if you press the home button you get a list of options. Scroll down through these and near the bottom of the list is one called "meters" click on that and the reading on your meter comes up. It's a bit non obvious cos it's way down the list of options nowhere near the usage option.