The Lemon Fool

Hi Folks,
Looking at the online calculators I reckon a water meter will save us money. Semi-detached, 3 bed, 1 bathroom, no dishwasher (well there's me of course), children moved out so just 2 of us.
Anyway the point is the water stop cock is in the pavement at the front of the house. There is no useable internal stop cock that I have ever found. Been here over 30 years. The one in the pavement works fine with a long iron T bar key.
Question: Do water meters come with a switch/lever to turn of the water or would the present stop cock, an arm's length down the hole, still be usable?
I know it's probably a 'See what they say' kind of question but a little advanced knowledge could be useful.
Anyone had similar 'problems'.
Ray.

Well, any plumber can fit you a new stopcock inside your house. Takes about half an hour, including his cup of tea. Water meters take a bit more negotiating - I think it depends on your local provider - but the ones we deal with are happy to install a smart meter (which can be remotely read by the van in the road).

BJ

One installation I've seen ( top floor flat) is a stop cock just before the water meter. If you have a meter installed, it would make sense to have a stop cock added in the installation.

raybarrow wrote:Question: Do water meters come with a switch/lever to turn of the water

Mine does - it is a small plastic T bar that some people leave in the 'manhole' connected to the meter and some take into the house. Other design are different, but they all have a way to turn the water off in the street.

This video from Northumbrian Water covers finding your stopcock if you have a water meter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGAUIgEUpzQ

raybarrow wrote:or would the present stop cock, an arm's length down the hole, still be usable?

Probably not, as likely they will replace that whole thing with the meter.

AF62 wrote:

raybarrow wrote:Question: Do water meters come with a switch/lever to turn of the water

Mine does - it is a small plastic T bar that some people leave in the 'manhole' connected to the meter and some take into the house. Other design are different, but they all have a way to turn the water off in the street.

This video from Northumbrian Water covers finding your stopcock if you have a water meter - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGAUIgEUpzQ

raybarrow wrote:or would the present stop cock, an arm's length down the hole, still be usable?

Probably not, as likely they will replace that whole thing with the meter.

A meter itself doesn't normally have any ability to stop the flow, but will often be installed with a stopcock nearby and inline.

The stop cock might be hidden by previous work. They are usually close to where the water comes in.

As for no dishwasher, it's probably more efficient to get one.

raybarrow wrote: Do water meters come with a switch/lever to turn of the water or would the present stop cock, an arm's length down the hole, still be usable?

The meter will be down the same hole or perhaps a larger version thereof depending on age of house and the present in-pavement access cover, and there will be a stop cock. After all, at some point the meter will need replacing.

I agree with those who comment that you should also have your own internal stopcock fitted.

V8

88V8 wrote:

raybarrow wrote: Do water meters come with a switch/lever to turn of the water or would the present stop cock, an arm's length down the hole, still be usable?

The meter will be down the same hole or perhaps a larger version thereof depending on age of house and the present in-pavement access cover, and there will be a stop cock. After all, at some point the meter will need replacing.

I agree with those who comment that you should also have your own internal stopcock fitted.

V8

After my morning I would agree ,the mixer tap in our bathroom decided to break (the plastic innards) and pour water out over the basin faster than it would drain, frantic run around house turning off three stopcocks (one downstairs two upstairs) before both cold and hot water stopped. Annoyingly whilst the kitchen supply pipes each have under sink isolating controls the bathroom ones do not. (Note to self to have some fitted when we have our bathroom refitted later this year)

Hi Folks,
I take the comments on having an internal stopcock fitted. I did originally say there is no 'usable' one. Inside the front door is a stopcock 'buried' in the wall plaster and covered in many layers of paint and with no handle on it. It could easily be on a random section of lead pipe from the look of it. I do have isolating valves on most bits of pipe.

I'm not keen on dishwashers, there are only two of us. Friends have them and they seem, to me, to be bit of a faff. The hype of put everything in and forget it doesn't quite seem to match the reality. But that's just me I suppose.

Cheers,
Ray.

raybarrow wrote:But that's just me I suppose

Nah, I'm in the very same boat!

raybarrow wrote:I'm not keen on dishwashers, there are only two of us. Friends have them and they seem, to me, to be bit of a faff. The hype of put everything in and forget it doesn't quite seem to match the reality.

Well for the two of us it is - put everything used in during the day in it (and that's no faff), turn it on last thing at night (and that's no faff), then next morning whilst waiting for the coffee to brew empty it (and that's no more faff than moving it from the draining board to the cupboard).

But getting back to the opening point about water meters and using less water, dishwashers use far less water than washing by hand - https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/wh ... Dng9Y2iK8E

raybarrow wrote:I'm not keen on dishwashers, there are only two of us. Friends have them and they seem, to me, to be bit of a faff. The hype of put everything in and forget it doesn't quite seem to match the reality. But that's just me I suppose.

Rule 1 with dishwashers if they don't perform: Clean the filters and check that the rotating arms aren't blocked by bits of rice, etc. Rule 2: Give the machine a short, really hot wash with something strong like Flash floor cleaner. Rule 3: Pick up a sponge and give it a demonstration on how to do it better. It won't learn anything, but you'll feel better.

BJ

AF62 wrote:

raybarrow wrote:I'm not keen on dishwashers, there are only two of us. Friends have them and they seem, to me, to be bit of a faff. The hype of put everything in and forget it doesn't quite seem to match the reality.

Well for the two of us it is - put everything used in during the day in it (and that's no faff), turn it on last thing at night (and that's no faff), then next morning whilst waiting for the coffee to brew empty it (and that's no more faff than moving it from the draining board to the cupboard).

But getting back to the opening point about water meters and using less water, dishwashers use far less water than washing by hand - https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/wh ... Dng9Y2iK8E

Some dishwashers use far less water than washing by hand if fully packed and used optimally

And both vanish in to the rounding errors of most traditional showers

servodude wrote:Some dishwashers use far less water than washing by hand if fully packed and used optimally

Yep - that's exactly how my dishwasher is used

Hi

But getting back to the opening point about water meters and using less water, dishwashers use far less water than washing by hand - https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/wh ... Dng9Y2iK8E

Just had read of that article and found:

One standard meal set is equivalent to one place setting in a dishwasher: one dinner plate, dessert plate, soup plate, glass, saucer, cup and set of cutlery.

Our standard meal setting 1 dinner plate, 1 glass, knife and fork. Breakfast cereal bowl, cup, spoon, Lunch small plate (sandwich), cup. It would take us several days to fill a dishwasher.
Just as an aside we are still using the crockery my late father in law bought us for a wedding present 40+ years ago. Denby pottery still fine (made of concrete I think!).

Ray.

AF62 wrote:

servodude wrote:Some dishwashers use far less water than washing by hand if fully packed and used optimally

Yep - that's exactly how my dishwasher is used

Ours is filled until we have insufficient crockery for the next meal. Usually some space still left, but nothing suitable to put in.

Typically between 3 and 4 days. Always some hand washing to do, principally cooking vessels and stuff for recycling. Minimal water needed, which comes from an undersink electric heater. Previously we had to draw water from the hot water cylinder, which wasted a lot before it ran hot. The latest dishwasher only takes cold water, of course.

Lead crystal glassware is never put in the dishwasher, but soda-lime glass is fine.

TJH

raybarrow wrote:I'm not keen on dishwashers, there are only two of us. Friends have them and they seem, to me, to be bit of a faff. The hype of put everything in and forget it doesn't quite seem to match the reality. But that's just me I suppose.

Cheers,
Ray.

I take it you have never had one then. If I were a sales person, I'd give them away free and then take them away again after a month. The majority would be biting your are off to get it back.

I considered have x2 in my kitchen. Much easier than washing up, cleaner and tidier. Add greener and Greta will be your friend too.

You will have to clarify what the faff is because I can't see a negative.

Gerry557 wrote:I considered have x2 in my kitchen.

I used to work with someone who effectively did that with a two drawer dishwasher - https://www.johnlewis.com/fisher-paykel ... l/p3465281

One drawer full of clean stuff to use and the other drawer to be filled with dirty stuff to wash, and no need to put anything away in a cupboard.

Probably helped that they lived on their own.

servodude wrote:Some dishwashers use far less water than washing by hand if fully packed and used optimally

And both vanish in to the rounding errors of most traditional showers

A new variation on the theme of ‘not worth cutting our CO2 while China burns its coal’.