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IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

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monabri
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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429298

Postby monabri » July 21st, 2021, 12:42 pm

idpickering wrote:Further to my post above, the purchase of HICL shares scheduled to happen tomorrow, is still a go. Thereafter that'll be followed up with another buy of HICL shares next month. That's the plan anyway, but things might change by then. ;)

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread.

Ian.


Link to info on the next dividend..XD 26th August...you might just get the August top up in beforehand.

viewtopic.php?p=429297#p429297

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429302

Postby idpickering » July 21st, 2021, 1:05 pm

monabri wrote:
Link to info on the next dividend..XD 26th August...you might just get the August top up in beforehand.

viewtopic.php?p=429297#p429297


Thanks for that. I was aware of that, no doubt they’ll be two more top ups of it to get it up to average capital value weighting in my HYP after that. We’ll see. Halifax tend to do investing on 22nd of each month, or thereabouts. There are earlier dates too though, but I want to get some divis into my available cash first.

Ian.

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429496

Postby Arborbridge » July 22nd, 2021, 7:13 am

idpickering wrote:
monabri wrote:
Link to info on the next dividend..XD 26th August...you might just get the August top up in beforehand.

viewtopic.php?p=429297#p429297


Thanks for that. I was aware of that, no doubt they’ll be two more top ups of it to get it up to average capital value weighting in my HYP after that. We’ll see. Halifax tend to do investing on 22nd of each month, or thereabouts. There are earlier dates too though, but I want to get some divis into my available cash first.

Ian.


HICL is an interesting company and I've always thought the premium too high, which set me off in other directions - though I guess it won't matter if one never sells. As it appears is the AIC list, I'd always thought that if I bought it, it would go into my IT basket rather than my HYP: it's one of those borderline companies, neither fish nor foul - all a bit confusing.

Seems to provide a reasonably yieldy income which creeps up at 2% a year - OK for a core. I wonder what it will manage when inflation increases?

As ever with HICL, I feel I am "half interested"!

Arb.

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429505

Postby idpickering » July 22nd, 2021, 7:41 am

Arborbridge wrote:
HICL is an interesting company and I've always thought the premium too high, which set me off in other directions - though I guess it won't matter if one never sells. As it appears is the AIC list, I'd always thought that if I bought it, it would go into my IT basket rather than my HYP: it's one of those borderline companies, neither fish nor foul - all a bit confusing.

Seems to provide a reasonably yieldy income which creeps up at 2% a year - OK for a core. I wonder what it will manage when inflation increases?

As ever with HICL, I feel I am "half interested"!

Arb.


Thanks for your input Arb, and I understand your reluctance re HICL. I'm ok with the premium, because as you say, it won't matter if I don't sell out. I do intend holding HICL for the long term obviously, but for me, on a personal note, now on 27 holdings, it'll play havoc with my OCD re odd numbers lol. Don't be surprised if that number goes up to 28 pretty soon, although there's not many new fish in the HYP pond nowadays to choose from it seems?

Ian.

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429507

Postby Arborbridge » July 22nd, 2021, 8:12 am

idpickering wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:
HICL is an interesting company and I've always thought the premium too high, which set me off in other directions - though I guess it won't matter if one never sells. As it appears is the AIC list, I'd always thought that if I bought it, it would go into my IT basket rather than my HYP: it's one of those borderline companies, neither fish nor foul - all a bit confusing.

Seems to provide a reasonably yieldy income which creeps up at 2% a year - OK for a core. I wonder what it will manage when inflation increases?

As ever with HICL, I feel I am "half interested"!

Arb.


Thanks for your input Arb, and I understand your reluctance re HICL. I'm ok with the premium, because as you say, it won't matter if I don't sell out. I do intend holding HICL for the long term obviously, but for me, on a personal note, now on 27 holdings, it'll play havoc with my OCD re odd numbers lol. Don't be surprised if that number goes up to 28 pretty soon, although there's not many new fish in the HYP pond nowadays to choose from it seems?

Ian.


But 27 is quite a nice number. Three nines, and 2+7=9. Can't see much nice about 28 ;)

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429518

Postby funduffer » July 22nd, 2021, 8:59 am

I too have been a bit put off by HICL's high premium.

I have gone instead for GCP Infrastructure (GCP), which has a high proportion of renewable energy investments, but also more traditional infrastructure.

It currently yields nearly 7%, and it's premium to NAV is 'only' 1.9%, which is very low for companies in these sectors (General Infrastructure and Renewable Energy Infrastructure)

An explanation for this is provided here:

https://www.investegate.co.uk/gcp-infra ... 59278299F/

We believe that some investors may have been unnerved by falls in GCP's net asset value (NAV). These falls relate to increased corporation tax rates and reductions in long-term power price estimates. These are factors that affect competing funds too, yet GCP's rating seems to have been disproportionately and perhaps unjustly affected.


Whilst this comment may not apply to HICL, it looks like an alternative.

FD

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429520

Postby idpickering » July 22nd, 2021, 9:03 am

funduffer wrote:I too have been a bit put off by HICL's high premium.

I have gone instead for GCP Infrastructure (GCP), which has a high proportion of renewable energy investments, but also more traditional infrastructure.

It currently yields nearly 7%, and it's premium to NAV is 'only' 1.9%, which is very low for companies in these sectors (General Infrastructure and Renewable Energy Infrastructure)

An explanation for this is provided here:

https://www.investegate.co.uk/gcp-infra ... 59278299F/

We believe that some investors may have been unnerved by falls in GCP's net asset value (NAV). These falls relate to increased corporation tax rates and reductions in long-term power price estimates. These are factors that affect competing funds too, yet GCP's rating seems to have been disproportionately and perhaps unjustly affected.


Whilst this comment may not apply to HICL, it looks like an alternative.

FD


Thanks very much for that. I will certainly check them over.

Ian.

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429525

Postby Gengulphus » July 22nd, 2021, 9:14 am

Arborbridge wrote:But 27 is quite a nice number. Three nines, and 2+7=9. ...

You can add 27 = 5^2 + 2 = (5-2)^(5-2) = 2^5 - 5 to that.

... Can't see much nice about 28 ;)

I'd say it's the one-and-only perfect number of shares for a HYP! ;-)

Gengulphus

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429527

Postby idpickering » July 22nd, 2021, 9:19 am

Gengulphus wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:But 27 is quite a nice number. Three nines, and 2+7=9. ...

You can add 27 = 5^2 + 2 = (5-2)^(5-2) = 2^5 - 5 to that.

... Can't see much nice about 28 ;)

I'd say it's the one-and-only perfect number of shares for a HYP! ;-)

Gengulphus


But can you list them Gengulphus? It’d be interesting to see if anything else. ;)

Having said that, maybe we shouldn’t stray to much off topic?

Ian.

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429529

Postby Arborbridge » July 22nd, 2021, 9:26 am

idpickering wrote:
Gengulphus wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:But 27 is quite a nice number. Three nines, and 2+7=9. ...

You can add 27 = 5^2 + 2 = (5-2)^(5-2) = 2^5 - 5 to that.

... Can't see much nice about 28 ;)

I'd say it's the one-and-only perfect number of shares for a HYP! ;-)

Gengulphus


But can you list them Gengulphus? It’d be interesting to see if anything else. ;)

Having said that, maybe we shouldn’t stray to much off topic?

Ian.


Oh go on - Let's live dangerously 8-)

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429538

Postby MDW1954 » July 22nd, 2021, 9:48 am

Arborbridge wrote:HICL is an interesting company and I've always thought the premium too high, which set me off in other directions - though I guess it won't matter if one never sells. As it appears is the AIC list, I'd always thought that if I bought it, it would go into my IT basket rather than my HYP: it's one of those borderline companies, neither fish nor foul - all a bit confusing.

Arb.


The board guidance couldn't be clearer: REITs and quasi-REITs (eg infrastructure companies) are perfectly permissible.

MDW1954

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429551

Postby Arborbridge » July 22nd, 2021, 10:27 am

MDW1954 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:HICL is an interesting company and I've always thought the premium too high, which set me off in other directions - though I guess it won't matter if one never sells. As it appears is the AIC list, I'd always thought that if I bought it, it would go into my IT basket rather than my HYP: it's one of those borderline companies, neither fish nor foul - all a bit confusing.

Arb.


The board guidance couldn't be clearer: REITs and quasi-REITs (eg infrastructure companies) are perfectly permissible.

MDW1954


I don't doubt it, but when I first started my HYP, they would not have been, indeed REITs weren't invented then 8-)
My desire has always been to keep my HYP "pure" and separate from my ITs. Unfortunately, REITs came along and placed a foot in both camps which made it more difficult for me. In the case of 3iN the decision was easy: the yield was too low, so if I wanted to buy it, it had to be part of the IT basket.

Give me another ten years, and I might get thoroughly used to this new idea of companies investing in other companies being part of a HYP.

Arb.

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429607

Postby Gengulphus » July 22nd, 2021, 12:19 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
MDW1954 wrote:The board guidance couldn't be clearer: REITs and quasi-REITs (eg infrastructure companies) are perfectly permissible.

I don't doubt it, but when I first started my HYP, they would not have been, indeed REITs weren't invented then 8-)
My desire has always been to keep my HYP "pure" and separate from my ITs. Unfortunately, REITs came along and placed a foot in both camps which made it more difficult for me. In the case of 3iN the decision was easy: the yield was too low, so if I wanted to buy it, it had to be part of the IT basket.

Give me another ten years, and I might get thoroughly used to this new idea of companies investing in other companies being part of a HYP.

It's not a new idea! I'm pretty certain that every company I've ever had in my HYP has a long list of subsidiaries and/or other companies that it's invested in listed in its annual reports (a subsidiary just being a company that it owns more than half the shares of, and so is able to fully control its normal operations). And while that only goes back as far as 2003, I've had a few shareholdings in companies back to 1984 of which the same is true - and the idea of companies investing in other companies was by no means new then - I'm fairly certain from various bits of reading that it's been around for centuries!

What's going on IMHO is that some ways that companies invest in other companies are much more compatible with how HYPers invest in companies than others. The two main areas of potential (in)compatibility I know of are the amount of short-term trading and the amount of sector spread. HYPs work on the basis that short-term trading is generally to be avoided and the HYPer is in charge of the sector diversification: those are completely undermined if the companies they invest in routinely trade their holdings in other companies and/or the other companies they invest in are spread across a wide range of sectors. But if an investment company avoids doing those things significantly more than a non-investment company does, that undermining doesn't happen. E.g. a HYPer who invests in Greencoat UK Wind (UKW) actually has a rather clearer picture of what types of business activity they're invested in than one who invests in SSE, and like UKW, SSE does some trading in the companies it's invested in (see e.g. https://investegate.co.uk/sse-plc--sse- ... 00025303H/).

So the point is that HYPers generally want to have reasonably good control over their HYP's levels of trading and sector diversification - not perfect control, which is unachievable given that companies do acquire and dispose of their stakes in other companies from time to time, as the SSE RNS above illustrates, but a reasonably high level of confidence that the companies they're invested in will remain invested in the same business area and will be spending the vast majority of their time, effort and other resources to running or holding those companies rather than trading their shares. The board guidance that MDW1954 mentions basically identifies some types of investment company for which that level of confidence is reasonable.

Gengulphus

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429636

Postby Arborbridge » July 22nd, 2021, 1:37 pm

moorfield wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:My desire has always been to keep my HYP "pure" and separate from my ITs.



Surely a "pure" HYP is a non-tinkering/topslicing one? :? :roll: :twisted:


Exactly - and what I'm saying is that over the years I have moved away from that very simple clean investment style. I started with the ideal laid out by Pyad, but through subsequent reading of TMF moved away from it - whether for better or worse, I can never know.

By the way, the top-slicing impulse comes from what I perceived as an illogical factor in the Pyad case: that if we buy an equally weighted portfolio to mitigate the risk, then we should not allow that portfolio to erode that mitigation over time. i.e. I believe it is rational to top slice to maintain some sort of balance. What sort of balance is up to the risk taker.

Arb.

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429637

Postby csearle » July 22nd, 2021, 1:38 pm

Moderator Message:
The topic is IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21 - Please can we stay focused on this rather than wandering into the realms of what is or isn't a (pure) HYP. Thanks. - Chris

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429730

Postby MDW1954 » July 22nd, 2021, 5:58 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
MDW1954 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:HICL is an interesting company and I've always thought the premium too high, which set me off in other directions - though I guess it won't matter if one never sells. As it appears is the AIC list, I'd always thought that if I bought it, it would go into my IT basket rather than my HYP: it's one of those borderline companies, neither fish nor foul - all a bit confusing.

Arb.


The board guidance couldn't be clearer: REITs and quasi-REITs (eg infrastructure companies) are perfectly permissible.

MDW1954


I don't doubt it, but when I first started my HYP, they would not have been, indeed REITs weren't invented then 8-)
My desire has always been to keep my HYP "pure" and separate from my ITs. Unfortunately, REITs came along and placed a foot in both camps which made it more difficult for me. In the case of 3iN the decision was easy: the yield was too low, so if I wanted to buy it, it had to be part of the IT basket.

Give me another ten years, and I might get thoroughly used to this new idea of companies investing in other companies being part of a HYP.

Arb.


Moderator Message:
There's some confusion here. At its simplest, for an investment to be on-topic the HYP-P board, an investment company on the AIC list should not be invested in other quoted companies. Office blocks and shops, yes. Warehouses, yes. Windfarms, solar farms, and other infrastructure, yes. But NOT quoted companies. In other words, REITs and quasi-REITs, NOT investment trusts. -- MDW1954


Moderator Message:
The statement above has been edited, at a poster's request, to stress that it is quoted companies that your AIC-listed investment company should not be holding. In other words, if your AIC-listed investment company holds shares that you can buy directly, it isn't appropriate for the HYP-P board. --MDW1954

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429736

Postby idpickering » July 22nd, 2021, 6:26 pm

All,

Just to confirm, about 1104hrs this morning, I became the proud owner of a number of HICL Infrastructure shares. As I said before, today's buy will be followed up next month with another purchase of HICL shares. That’s the plan right now at least. ;)

Thank you all for your input in this thread.

Ian.

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429739

Postby MDW1954 » July 22nd, 2021, 6:32 pm

idpickering wrote:All,

Just to confirm, about 1104hrs this morning, I became the proud owner of a number of HICL Infrastructure shares. As I said before, today's buy will be followed up next month with another purchase of HICL shares.

Thank you all for your input in this thread.

Ian.



We'll get you buying LXI and WHR yet! :D SUPR might be a bit small, I grant you.

MDW1954

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429742

Postby idpickering » July 22nd, 2021, 6:50 pm

MDW1954 wrote:

We'll get you buying LXI and WHR yet! :D SUPR might be a bit small, I grant you.

MDW1954


Ta for your input Malcom. Tbh, I was sniffing around LXI again the other day. I like what I see, and if they’re riding higher, hey ho, you can’t win ‘em all. I did say before, for a long term hold, I’m not fussed about buying at ‘the cheapest price’, although to do so would be better of course. Not sure about WHR. I’ll have another look.

Ian.

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Re: IDP's HYP as of 09 Jul 21

#429824

Postby Arborbridge » July 23rd, 2021, 7:25 am

idpickering wrote:
MDW1954 wrote:

We'll get you buying LXI and WHR yet! :D SUPR might be a bit small, I grant you.

MDW1954


Ta for your input Malcom. Tbh, I was sniffing around LXI again the other day. I like what I see, and if they’re riding higher, hey ho, you can’t win ‘em all. I did say before, for a long term hold, I’m not fussed about buying at ‘the cheapest price’, although to do so would be better of course. Not sure about WHR. I’ll have another look.

Ian.


LXI at 3.8% (according to HL) or ULVR at similar? Hmmm.


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