Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to waiting4godot,yyuryyub,88V8,Anonymous,Fluke, for Donating to support the site

The British ISA

Discussing offers, rates and deals on suppliers
MrFoolish
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2243
Joined: March 22nd, 2020, 7:27 pm
Has thanked: 543 times
Been thanked: 1088 times

The British ISA

#645859

Postby MrFoolish » February 9th, 2024, 12:26 pm

Moderator Message:
Moved here, leaving a link, to allow the more general discussion to continue. - Chris

According to the Guardian, Hunt may introduce a "British ISA" at the next budget. This will incur no stamp duty for purchases of British shares.

As you HYPers only buy British shares, it's time to wave the flag and do your duty by paying no duty.

monabri
Lemon Half
Posts: 8316
Joined: January 7th, 2017, 9:56 am
Has thanked: 1527 times
Been thanked: 3386 times

Re: The British ISA

#645860

Postby monabri » February 9th, 2024, 12:30 pm

Saving a full 0.5% of tax when shareprices can fluctuate such a lot in just a day. It's not much of an incentive.

tjh290633
Lemon Half
Posts: 8101
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:20 am
Has thanked: 902 times
Been thanked: 4036 times

Re: The British ISA

#645863

Postby tjh290633 » February 9th, 2024, 12:36 pm

Some foreign shares do not attract stamp duty. I believe that the Republic of Ireland charges 1% stamp duty. My Australian shares, WDS, S32, etc. do not attract stamp duty. It's a small difference, and not having to pay a tax is always welcome.

TJH

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18256
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 610 times
Been thanked: 6338 times

Re: The British ISA

#645883

Postby Lootman » February 9th, 2024, 1:25 pm

MrFoolish wrote:According to the Guardian, Hunt may introduce a "British ISA" at the next budget. This will incur no stamp duty for purchases of British shares.

As you HYPers only buy British shares, it's time to wave the flag and do your duty by paying no duty.

Abolishing stamp duty would be helpful in any event but that alone would not make me buy UK shares when there are better opportunities overseas. Include ITs and I am in though.

An increase in the current £40,000 per couple annual subscription limit would also be welcome.

csearle
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4709
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 2:24 pm
Has thanked: 4718 times
Been thanked: 2039 times

Re: The British ISA

#646034

Postby csearle » February 9th, 2024, 10:23 pm

Any practical reduction in the cost of buying shares would be welcome.

As an aside all three of my worst investing decisions involved ITs. Things are not simple. C.

Grumpsimus
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 158
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 11:43 am
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 104 times

Re: The British ISA

#646083

Postby Grumpsimus » February 10th, 2024, 11:33 am

The British ISA seems to be the worst sort of political gimmick. What is it meant to achieve?

Would people really want to buy more shares if the the cost was reduced by half a percent. It would be nice , but hardly a game changer.

How would 'British Shares' be defined? I assume they would have to be listed on the London Stock Exchange in order to meet ISA rules. Unfortunately, most shares listed are not particularly British, according the LSE for the FT100 82% of the income comes from overseas. BHP is listed and has an office in London, but I believe all its operations are overseas. BATS gets 95% of income from overseas.

It would also create a problem for brokers, with different rules for 'British Shares' and foreign shares in an ISA and different rules for unsheltered accounts. This would require adjustments to their systems, not insurmountable, but just another complication for what is likely to be very little if any gain.

XFool
The full Lemon
Posts: 12382
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 2528 times

Re: The British ISA

#646084

Postby XFool » February 10th, 2024, 11:55 am

Grumpsimus wrote:The British ISA seems to be the worst sort of political gimmick. What is it meant to achieve?

Yes, agree.

I wish they would leave ISAs alone. When originally introduced they were fiddly, over the years they became simplified and straightforward: One cash ISA and one share ISA. That is where it should have been left, they were perfectly successful at that point.

Now it's those two plus 'Lifetime' ISAs and this latest nonsense. The trouble is, following its simplification over the years, the ISA 'brand' became so successful and well known it is now being used by the current government as a popularity booster. The risk is it will all end up in the usual British confusion and muddle rather than being left alone as something that just works.

Gerry557
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1869
Joined: September 2nd, 2019, 10:23 am
Has thanked: 165 times
Been thanked: 503 times

Re: The British ISA

#646085

Postby Gerry557 » February 10th, 2024, 12:07 pm

Can we define British shares?

Vodafone appears to be British but pays dividends in euros and the main portion of revenue is Europe. Lots of similar shares.

I donk think telling insurance and pension companies and the like to invest in bonds not equities helped much either.

As always the devil will be in the detail. Hopefully being able to use more than one broker in the future will help too. So you might be able to split investments.

I can't see them upping the limits either however nice that might be.

Dicky99
Lemon Slice
Posts: 544
Joined: February 23rd, 2023, 7:42 am
Has thanked: 158 times
Been thanked: 253 times

Re: The British ISA

#646106

Postby Dicky99 » February 10th, 2024, 2:12 pm

With regard to retail investors tendency for home bias, of which I'm guilty, I agree with this comment...

Hargreaves Lansdown’s Streeter adds: “Simply lifting the ISA allowance, without creating a new product, would result in a boost to investment in UK equities anyway. It would also still offer the potential for diversification, helping bolster retail investors’ resilience.

https://portfolio-adviser.com/platforms ... tish-isas/

evilbungle
Lemon Pip
Posts: 72
Joined: February 13th, 2017, 4:51 pm
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: The British ISA

#646151

Postby evilbungle » February 11th, 2024, 8:35 am

Grumpsimus wrote:Would people really want to buy more shares if the the cost was reduced by half a percent.


Well as a direct consequence then yes I would likely invest more - albeit only 0.5% more. (Like I am sure most people) I invest a set amount of money and the number of shares I get are that amount minus stamp duty and fees - So in this instance the amount invested would be equal to the stamp duty savings (Obviously depending on the share price - a share over 100GBP for example would unlikely change the volume brought - but one under 1GBP would see several more actual shares bought.

Obviously - Is this going to make a difference or help in anyway? is a different question entirely.

moorfield
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3518
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 1:56 pm
Has thanked: 1538 times
Been thanked: 1399 times

Re: The British ISA

#646157

Postby moorfield » February 11th, 2024, 9:23 am

monabri wrote:Saving a full 0.5% of tax when shareprices can fluctuate such a lot in just a day. It's not much of an incentive.


Not really. And real HYPsters as we know only pay it once anyway. By far the much bigger drags on income are (1) their brokers' custody fees, mine increased +20% a few years ago and now that I am seeing more of their flashy ads on telly I fear will do again and (2) their own keyboards.

stevensfo
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3373
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 8:43 am
Has thanked: 3738 times
Been thanked: 1368 times

Re: The British ISA

#646158

Postby stevensfo » February 11th, 2024, 9:25 am

I can't remember which ones, but I'm sure I have quite a few ETFs or ITs where I didn't pay any stamp duty at all.

Did it make me buy more?

Not at all!

Having said that, there may be cases where someone is spending a 'much' larger amount than my piddly little sums, for example, to buy preference shares for income.

In which case, it may be a more interesting proposition.


Steve

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18256
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 610 times
Been thanked: 6338 times

Re: The British ISA

#646219

Postby Lootman » February 11th, 2024, 1:16 pm

stevensfo wrote:I can't remember which ones, but I'm sure I have quite a few ETFs or ITs where I didn't pay any stamp duty at all.

Did it make me buy more?

Not at all!

No stamp duty might encourage more short-term trading. Now that commissions are much lower, and trivial for larger trades, and spreads are tight, it is really stamp duty that deters day trading.

ETFs have no stamp duty, nor ITs domiciled outside the UK, nor AIM shares, nor anything foreign of course.

MrFoolish
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2243
Joined: March 22nd, 2020, 7:27 pm
Has thanked: 543 times
Been thanked: 1088 times

Re: The British ISA

#646254

Postby MrFoolish » February 11th, 2024, 3:38 pm

Do the funds themselves (ETFs or ITs) have to pay withholding taxes on the dividends from the US shares they own?

scrumpyjack
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4742
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:15 am
Has thanked: 589 times
Been thanked: 2627 times

Re: The British ISA

#646258

Postby scrumpyjack » February 11th, 2024, 3:56 pm

In the 1990 Budget, the Conservative administration announced that stamp duty on shares would be abolished late in 1991–92.

That would have been on all share purchases not just ISAs

It never happened!

Yawn.

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18256
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 610 times
Been thanked: 6338 times

Re: The British ISA

#646269

Postby Lootman » February 11th, 2024, 4:49 pm

MrFoolish wrote:Do the funds themselves (ETFs or ITs) have to pay withholding taxes on the dividends from the US shares they own?

Yes although London-listed funds that are domiciled in Ireland, like pretty much all the popular ETFs, may have a more favourable tax treaty and withholding rate than the UK. Ireland itself imposes no additional tax withholding on UK fund holders.

The average dividend yield on a US-based ETF is currently 1.32% and so the 15% tax withholding only costs you about one fifth of one percent a year.

Grumpsimus
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 158
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 11:43 am
Has thanked: 44 times
Been thanked: 104 times

Re: The British ISA

#647419

Postby Grumpsimus » February 16th, 2024, 6:53 pm

There was a little more detail about the British ISA in an article in the 'i' newspaper today.

Apparenty, you will be able invest another £5000 in your ISA, if you invest in shares listed on UK stock market. The idea seems to be to boost activity on the UK stock market. The article was doubtful if this would really make much difference. It appears only 15% of ISAs actually get to £20000 anyway.

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18256
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 610 times
Been thanked: 6338 times

Re: The British ISA

#647420

Postby Lootman » February 16th, 2024, 6:58 pm

Grumpsimus wrote:There was a little more detail about the British ISA in an article in the 'i' newspaper today.

Apparenty, you will be able invest another £5000 in your ISA, if you invest in shares listed on UK stock market. The idea seems to be to boost activity on the UK stock market. The article was doubtful if this would really make much difference. It appears only 15% of ISAs actually get to £20000 anyway.

Amusingly this is how the original PEPs started in 1987. The subscription amount was higher if you bought UK-listed shares than if you wanted funds or foreign shares.

Full circle, I love it. I would do an extra 2 times £5000 a year as my wife and I always max out. The problem is more finding a UK share I want to own - will ITs be included?

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16602
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4338 times
Been thanked: 7514 times

Re: The British ISA

#647422

Postby Dod101 » February 16th, 2024, 7:07 pm

Lootman wrote:
Grumpsimus wrote:There was a little more detail about the British ISA in an article in the 'i' newspaper today.

Apparenty, you will be able invest another £5000 in your ISA, if you invest in shares listed on UK stock market. The idea seems to be to boost activity on the UK stock market. The article was doubtful if this would really make much difference. It appears only 15% of ISAs actually get to £20000 anyway.

Amusingly this is how the original PEPs started in 1987. The subscription amount was higher if you bought UK-listed shares than if you wanted funds or foreign shares.

Full circle, I love it. I would do an extra 2 times £5000 a year as my wife and I always max out. The problem is more finding a UK share I want to own - will ITs be included?


Well ITs are shares just like any others. Hope so.

Dod

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18256
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 610 times
Been thanked: 6338 times

Re: The British ISA

#647423

Postby Lootman » February 16th, 2024, 7:11 pm

Dod101 wrote:
Lootman wrote:Amusingly this is how the original PEPs started in 1987. The subscription amount was higher if you bought UK-listed shares than if you wanted funds or foreign shares.

Full circle, I love it. I would do an extra 2 times £5000 a year as my wife and I always max out. The problem is more finding a UK share I want to own - will ITs be included?

Well ITs are shares just like any others. Hope so.

You might think so but back in the 1980s ITs were lumped in with funds and so disallowed at the higher subscription level.

ETFs did not exist back then. They are London listed but Irish-domiciled.


Return to “Bank Accounts Savings & ISAs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: didds, Redmires and 1 guest