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New HYP Picks

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JohnnyCyclops
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New HYP Picks

#441728

Postby JohnnyCyclops » September 12th, 2021, 9:35 pm

I recently posted our HYP, viewtopic.php?f=15&t=30999

I'm looking to add a few extra holdings to replace the five that were either forced sales or a liquidation, with cash built up in the HYP (we'll also be topping up quite a few existing holdings to help with rebalancing). Turns out with a portfolio currently 30 stocks deep that there are thin pickings of other HYPables, and perhaps I'm foolish for trying to add back some extra diversity (sector, and company). But here goes. We might end up only picking 3 or 4 at this time. I was keen to find candidates in the (industry segments) of Industrials, Consumer Discretionary, Technology, and Telecoms.

Dividends are from the https://www.dividenddata.co.uk site. I need to do some more work to qualify these options but wondered if other Fools had any initial thoughts (good or bad).

The HYPTUSS gives the running yield at 4.9%, boosted by the two miners BHP (10.5%) & RIO (16.3%). Excluding them, the running yield is 3.9%. The options we've got below are either neutral or mildly dilutive. I'm ok with that. The underlying yield is still feeling the impact of Covid cuts. The current holdings (from a week ago) are on the link above.

1. One of Persimmon 8.6%, Taylor Wimpey 4.9%, Barratt 4.3% (or Vistry 3.3% or Bellway 3.0%) [Housebuilders]
2. Moneysupermarket 4.8% [Software/Computers]
3. Royal Mail 4.2% [Industrial Transport] - seems RMG has signalled a 20p annual dividend, to drive this yield
4. Telecom Plus 5.6% [Telecoms] - share price seems to have dived, pushing the yield up
5. RHI Magnesita 3.6% [Chemicals] - a HYP 'long shot', probably fishing too much, but always 'annoyed' that Johnson Matthey & Croda remain low yield and just out of reach

TIA
JC

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Re: New HYP Picks

#441762

Postby idpickering » September 13th, 2021, 6:13 am

JohnnyCyclops wrote:I recently posted our HYP, viewtopic.php?f=15&t=30999

I'm looking to add a few extra holdings to replace the five that were either forced sales or a liquidation, with cash built up in the HYP (we'll also be topping up quite a few existing holdings to help with rebalancing). Turns out with a portfolio currently 30 stocks deep that there are thin pickings of other HYPables, and perhaps I'm foolish for trying to add back some extra diversity (sector, and company). But here goes. We might end up only picking 3 or 4 at this time. I was keen to find candidates in the (industry segments) of Industrials, Consumer Discretionary, Technology, and Telecoms.

Dividends are from the https://www.dividenddata.co.uk site. I need to do some more work to qualify these options but wondered if other Fools had any initial thoughts (good or bad).

The HYPTUSS gives the running yield at 4.9%, boosted by the two miners BHP (10.5%) & RIO (16.3%). Excluding them, the running yield is 3.9%. The options we've got below are either neutral or mildly dilutive. I'm ok with that. The underlying yield is still feeling the impact of Covid cuts. The current holdings (from a week ago) are on the link above.

1. One of Persimmon 8.6%, Taylor Wimpey 4.9%, Barratt 4.3% (or Vistry 3.3% or Bellway 3.0%) [Housebuilders]
2. Moneysupermarket 4.8% [Software/Computers]
3. Royal Mail 4.2% [Industrial Transport] - seems RMG has signalled a 20p annual dividend, to drive this yield
4. Telecom Plus 5.6% [Telecoms] - share price seems to have dived, pushing the yield up
5. RHI Magnesita 3.6% [Chemicals] - a HYP 'long shot', probably fishing too much, but always 'annoyed' that Johnson Matthey & Croda remain low yield and just out of reach

TIA
JC


Hi JC,

Of your options there, on the house builder front, I'd go for the share offering the highest yield, that being Persimmon. I'm toying with bringing them on board my own HYP tbh. Moneysupermarket are interesting as an option imho. i had mulled over buying into them a couple of years ago but never got around to pulling the trigger. I think I was tempted elsewhere at the time?

The other three, although I've held RMG a long time ago, I always seemed to fret about holding them for some reason and bailed out. The other two I know nothing about, so it'd be unfair of me offering you an opinion on them.

Good luck with whichever share you decide on buying.

Ian.

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Re: New HYP Picks

#441774

Postby Wasron » September 13th, 2021, 8:08 am

JC,

I wouldn’t describe Telecom Plus as Telecoms, so they might not fit with your diversification aim.

They describe themselves as a multi service provider, basically a utility provider for gas, electricity, broadband and mobile.

I reinvested in them a couple of months ago when their div yield hit 5.5%, having previously sold out when the price was much higher (and the yield much lower). They’re defensive, but with a history of both organic growth and an increasing dividend.

So they might do a job for you on the income front, but that won’t really extend to sectoral diversification

Regards

Wasron

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Re: New HYP Picks

#441801

Postby miner1000 » September 13th, 2021, 9:35 am

Persimmon and a great dividend history. They also have a history of building below standard housing and paying Huge Bonuses to their executive staff.

This I view to be much more harmful to potential shareholders than Oil, Tobacco or aerospace companies. I would therefore not touch them with the proverbial barge pole. Taylor Wimpy,Vistry or Berkeley (I hold BKG) are slightly different animals.

DYOR

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JohnnyCyclops
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Re: New HYP Picks

#442007

Postby JohnnyCyclops » September 13th, 2021, 9:55 pm

An evening puddling through the house builders.

Clearly, all acknowledge cyclicality. But in different ways.

Persimmon went for 'capital returns' as far back as 2011, and started paying out in 2013 (initially as B/C shares rather than cash). That accelerated and is driving the 8.6% current yield. Their commitment to dividends doesn't seem solid and they don't split out 'core' dividends from specials - it's all just capital returns. Dividend cover currently 0.9.

Taylor Wimpey going for 'maintenance dividends' currently at 7.5% of 'net assets' (was 1-2% back in 2011, then 5%), plus special dividends on top, returning surplus cash. The core dividends are 'stress tested' and should continue through the cycle. Current yield 4.9%, with cover 0.8.

Barratt Developments similar to TW but links their core dividends to div cover, currently aiming for 2.5, but achieving 2.0 this year. Was 3.0 earlier in the 2010s. Plus specials on top. Current yield 4.3%.

All three stopped payments for 12 months due to covid. TW and BDEV have not restarted the specials. TW will review specials again on the FY2021 announcing in Mar-22. No specials indication from BDEV - and in recent years had said they might switch from cash dividends to share buyback if they offered shareholders better value.

I had Vistry yielding 3.3% and Bellway at 3.0% so didn't review. Berkeley looks to be around 2.5% yield, but it's a little messy in the dividend history - looks like cuts in 2017 & 2018, thus pre-Covid, but they didn't pay specials, so it's possible they pushed eveything via the regular dividends which in turn became variable. Plus a recent very large special and a related (?) share consolidation. I'd need to be convinced to poke into BKG more.

Despite the lower yield (4.3%) I'm favouring BDEV, but could equally pick TW. PSN just confuses me. Given I've previously doubled-up companies in sectors it's possible we just add both BDEV and TW. I think I skipped the housebuilders back in 'peak HYP building' 2013-2017 because they were just coming back up (dividend wise) from the trough of 2008-11.

Thanks to other Fools for commenting on Telecom Plus and Moneysupermarket - work required still to poke through them.

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Re: New HYP Picks

#442026

Postby torata » September 14th, 2021, 1:33 am

JC have you looked at any of the smaller, more specialist REITS? - logistics, social housing, supermarket and surgery focused?
They are often discussed on the REIT board, and it seems quite popular among HYPers.

torata

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Re: New HYP Picks

#442038

Postby JohnnyCyclops » September 14th, 2021, 7:56 am

torata wrote:JC have you looked at any of the smaller, more specialist REITS? - logistics, social housing, supermarket and surgery focused?
They are often discussed on the REIT board, and it seems quite popular among HYPers.

torata


I think we feel "good" for property exposure, holding both Segro and British Land, plus on the domestic front through home ownership. But I will take a look at the REIT board.

This latest trawl for HYPable candidates reminded me of a whole cluster of low yielders <2% that generate increasing dividends year-on-year - it helps explain why whole sectors seem to never show up in most HYPs (e.g. a lot of Industrials). Not HYP stocks but something I'll take a further look at for a combination of div growth and price growth in another portfolio. Shhhh, now!...

EDIT - although I DO think this is a practical point, because HYP to me means that the portfolio generates a high yield (or higher than your benchmark - for me FTSE100), not that every single stock needs to be HY - either for cyclical or company reasons, or sectorial diversity. We bought Unilever and Sage on that basis.

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Re: New HYP Picks

#442050

Postby daveh » September 14th, 2021, 9:02 am

Persimmon have always paid out a cash dividend. I can't recall if they offered it in any unusual ways in the past (I have no record of them doing so and my spreadsheet just shows cash payment) but if they did there was always a cash alternative and I've held since just before the GFC (bought in 2008) and all dividends have gone into my account as cash and there is no record of any B/C shares.

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Re: New HYP Picks

#442062

Postby MDW1954 » September 14th, 2021, 10:03 am

JohnnyCyclops wrote:
torata wrote:JC have you looked at any of the smaller, more specialist REITS? - logistics, social housing, supermarket and surgery focused?
They are often discussed on the REIT board, and it seems quite popular among HYPers.

torata


I think we feel "good" for property exposure, holding both Segro and British Land, plus on the domestic front through home ownership. But I will take a look at the REIT board.




A reminder -- see my list, here:

https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=438511#p438511

MDW1954

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Re: New HYP Picks

#442267

Postby Gengulphus » September 14th, 2021, 6:20 pm

daveh wrote:Persimmon have always paid out a cash dividend. I can't recall if they offered it in any unusual ways in the past (I have no record of them doing so and my spreadsheet just shows cash payment) but if they did there was always a cash alternative and I've held since just before the GFC (bought in 2008) and all dividends have gone into my account as cash and there is no record of any B/C shares.

There definitely were B/C shares in 2013-2015. The likely reason why they don't appear in your records is that they were short-lived intermediate steps in Persimmon's cash payout mechanism for those years, not that they didn't exist. In particular, shareholders got the choice of receiving either a B share or a C share for each Ordinary share they had (as an extra, not a replacement for the Ordinary share). The company then redeemed the B shares for the cash payment per B share, while they paid the cash payment per share as a dividend on the C shares, accompanied by converting the C shares to Deferred shares, which were carefully designed to have effectively zero value while still technically being shares. The company then finished the job by compulsorily purchasing all the Deferred shares for next to nothing (a power specifically given to it by the terms & conditions of the Deferred shares - companies don't have such a power with respect to their shares in general, people will be glad to hear!) and cancelling them.

The net result was that shareholders would always receive their cash payment, but as a capital payment for the company acquiring the B shares if they took B shares, and as a dividend income payment if they took C shares - which some shareholders could use to minimise their tax bill. Such schemes were becoming increasing popular among companies (and probably especially among the companies financial advisers, who could charge fat fees for them) in the early 2010s. Eventually the Chancellor got fed up with the tax shenanigans surrounding what was essentially a simple dividend payment and brought in a tax rule that the tax treatment of any cash distribution by a company that offered shareholders the choice of receiving it as a capital payment or an income payment would be that it was taxed as though it were an income payment, no matter which form of payment the shareholder went for. That got rid of any shareholder benefit from the scheme, and so companies stopped using them and their financial advisers stopped offering them. (Note that some companies still do occasionally distribute cash via B share schemes that only allow the payment to be made as a capital payment - those are still effective because they don't offer shareholders a choice.)

As evidence that this really did happen in your holding period, see Persimmon's final results for 2012, which say:

Following consultation with our shareholders, the Directors propose to offer the opportunity for shareholders (wherever possible) to choose whether to receive the cash as either a return of capital or as dividend income. It is anticipated that the cash payment, which in total amounts to approximately £227m, will be returned by way of a B share/C share scheme. Full details of this B/C share proposal will be sent to shareholders, along with the AGM notice, on 18 March 2013.

and the RNS about the resulting shareholder circular, which says:

Under this proposed Return of Cash, referred to as a 'B/C share scheme', and subject to Shareholder approval being obtained, for every one existing Ordinary Share held at 6.00 pm on 19 April 2013, 75 pence is to be returned to Shareholders through the issue to them of either one B Share, which will be redeemed by the Company for 75 pence, or one C Share, on which a dividend of 75 pence will be paid, after which the C Share will be automatically reclassified as a Deferred Share and subsequently repurchased by the Company for an aggregate consideration of one penny and then cancelled.

and continues to give details of the timetable. Incidentally, don't read the "aggregate consideration of one penny" part as saying one would get 75p per C share plus 1p per resulting Deferred share compared with just 75p per B share - it means one penny for all the Deferred shares combined, not per Deferred share!

A later RNS confirms that this all did indeed go ahead, and also indicates that those who didn't choose got the dividend income option. So I'm not surprised that your records just show that payment as a dividend that you received - and especially if you held the shares in an ISA or SIPP, the whole shenanigans may have barely registered with you at all, as you wouldn't care in the slightest between income and capital tax treatment.

Gengulphus

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Re: New HYP Picks

#442304

Postby JohnnyCyclops » September 14th, 2021, 8:14 pm

Gengulphus wrote:There definitely were B/C shares in 2013-2015.


Having spent last evening reading on Investegate ten years worth of interim and final reports for Persimmon (and also Barratt and Taylor Wimpey) I confirm everything you wrote about the firm's approach in 2013-15, and am very grateful for the background as to why it no longer happens that way (B/C shares by companies).

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Re: New HYP Picks

#442352

Postby JohnnyCyclops » September 14th, 2021, 10:30 pm

So, Moneysupermarket.com.

Listed in the Software & Computer Services sector but that's true for a large chunk of businesses having either shifted online or grown up online (as has MONY). Seems to be a bit of a media business, but generates revenue from connecting consumers to businesses and taking a marketing fee (for example, helping consumers switch utility providers, or sourcing insurance).

MONY has paid a dividend since listing in 2007, plus some specials for returning surplus cash. The dividend was slowing slightly pre-Covid and has since flattened. Hey, at least they didnt cut or suspend the dividend for Covid. https://www.dividenddata.co.uk/dividend ... ?epic=MONY

Skimming back over final results on Investegate, seems like they retain very little cash in the business, and effectively each dividend is genuinely from immediate earnings. Share price has dropped 40% from a July 2019 peak (again, pre-Covid) causing the yield to increase from ~3.0% (long term) to now a swollen 4.8%. Latest dividend cover against EPS is only 1.1. Dividend CAGR currently 5% (5yr) and 12% (10yr) but both are slowing.

I sense there's been no major shift in the dividend approach and they've always had thin cash reserves. Revenues have been dented (loss of travel insurance, etc.) but no reason they won't adjust and continue.

After staring at the numbers this evening, MONY feels like a reasonable/possible HYP stock. The payout history gave me some solace, but I'm a wee bit nervous the div might not be sustainable and there's not much resiliency in cash terms if revenues continue to be under pressure.

This investing lark - hard, ehh :-)

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Re: New HYP Picks

#442383

Postby idpickering » September 15th, 2021, 6:05 am

JohnnyCyclops wrote:So, Moneysupermarket.com.

Listed in the Software & Computer Services sector but that's true for a large chunk of businesses having either shifted online or grown up online (as has MONY). Seems to be a bit of a media business, but generates revenue from connecting consumers to businesses and taking a marketing fee (for example, helping consumers switch utility providers, or sourcing insurance).

MONY has paid a dividend since listing in 2007, plus some specials for returning surplus cash. The dividend was slowing slightly pre-Covid and has since flattened. Hey, at least they didnt cut or suspend the dividend for Covid. https://www.dividenddata.co.uk/dividend ... ?epic=MONY

Skimming back over final results on Investegate, seems like they retain very little cash in the business, and effectively each dividend is genuinely from immediate earnings. Share price has dropped 40% from a July 2019 peak (again, pre-Covid) causing the yield to increase from ~3.0% (long term) to now a swollen 4.8%. Latest dividend cover against EPS is only 1.1. Dividend CAGR currently 5% (5yr) and 12% (10yr) but both are slowing.

I sense there's been no major shift in the dividend approach and they've always had thin cash reserves. Revenues have been dented (loss of travel insurance, etc.) but no reason they won't adjust and continue.

After staring at the numbers this evening, MONY feels like a reasonable/possible HYP stock. The payout history gave me some solace, but I'm a wee bit nervous the div might not be sustainable and there's not much resiliency in cash terms if revenues continue to be under pressure.

This investing lark - hard, ehh :-)


Nice research on MONY, but tbh, I think you should follow your instincts, highlighted in your last sentence, and look elsewhere. There are other 'safer' (maybe) shares out there. Good luck with whatever you decide though.

Ian.

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Re: New HYP Picks

#442652

Postby JohnnyCyclops » September 15th, 2021, 11:01 pm

I've cranked through the other three possibles.

Royal Mail (RMG) - pretty well known. Listed in 2013. Had been raising the dividend by ~4-5% per annum until 2019 when it announced a cut (pre-Covid) dropping back from 25p to 15p. It then cancelled the 2019 final (in early 2020) for Covid, and also the 2020 interim. It's now paying again, and signaling a 20p FY dividend for the 2021/22 year, which would deliver a 4.1% yield on current price. I believe many here would mutter (scream?) "pension deficit", however from what I glean, although there is a deficit in the legacy DB scheme, the firm is presently meeting its liabilities.

Telecom Plus (TEP) - not really in the Telecommunications Service Providers sector per se. As another Fool noted earlier, they are in the multi-utility provider slot. Curiously, felt similar (but not identical) to Moneysupermarket (MONY) that I looked at yesterday, in that they help citizens find better deals on utilities, phone, mobile, insurance, etc. In TEP's case, through a 'partner' business model (people selling to people, or signing up friends/family/neighbours). The leadership appears long-term (CEO 14 years). Good dividend growth (one cut in 2007 when it tripped over wholesale energy prices), and a hold not a cut/cancel for Covid. CAGR 4.4% (5yr) and 10.0% (10yr). 5.6% yield with the share price down 33% during 2021.

RHI Magnesita (RHIM) - my Chemicals sector 'long-shot' with a 3.6% yield. They product refractories (no, I had to look it up too! - basically materials resistant to heat, presure and chemicals - think kiln linings and crucibles). Only listed on LSE in 2017 on the merger of RHI and Magnesita. Dutch registered, with Austrian heritage - goes back to 1834. Been paying flat EUR 150c dividends since 2018, with one skipped 100c final in 2020 (covid). So, hard to tell if they'll be raising the dividend with such a short record. Maybe one to watch, but the starting yield isn't enough to convince me.

SO WHAT
I used the HYPTUSS to 'dummy up' buying three new stocks to see if that unjammed another sector or two enough to buy a new stock (e.g. add another financial). It didn't.

It's tempting to buy both Barratt (BDEV) and Taylor Wimpey (TW) in house builders (we've previously doubled up in many sectors). Plus Royal Mail. And I can see merit in both Moneysupermarket and Telecom Plus for similar reasons/markets.

However, before that I want to look at the four rump stocks. If we sold those it would free up 'slots' in their current sectors. A little bit of juggling needed.

Centrica (CNA) - stopped the dividend for Covid, but had already cut the 2019 interim in summer 2019. No sign of restarting dividends (Tell Sid!)

Kier (KIE) - suspended the dividend pre-Covid in autumn 2019. No sign of restarting. Capital down 90%, so a tiddly amount left even if they did restart the dividend.

Stagecoach (SGC) - suspended for Covid, but had also cut (by half) in 2018. No sign of reatarting.

Wood Group (WG.) - suspended for Covid, not restarted.

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Re: New HYP Picks

#442731

Postby moorfield » September 16th, 2021, 12:04 pm

JohnnyCyclops wrote:
After staring at the numbers this evening, MONY feels like a reasonable/possible HYP stock. The payout history gave me some solace, but I'm a wee bit nervous the div might not be sustainable and there's not much resiliency in cash terms if revenues continue to be under pressure.




I'd encourage you to have another look at MONY. Things that stood out for me, and why I bought it earlier this year:

- High and consistent rates (>30%) of ROCE and CROCI (cash generation)
- Low debt/assets ratio (non-current liabilities)

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Re: New HYP Picks

#442843

Postby JohnnyCyclops » September 16th, 2021, 10:22 pm

moorfield wrote:I'd encourage you to have another look at MONY. Things that stood out for me, and why I bought it earlier this year:

- High and consistent rates (>30%) of ROCE and CROCI (cash generation)
- Low debt/assets ratio (non-current liabilities)


I broadly liked what I saw, and without going back over every annual report for a decade, sense they don't hold a lot of cash and the dividend cover is possibly always (mostly?) thin. I also quite liked TEP - a company I'd not heard of before, but with an interesting operating model and seemingly stable leadership.

On MONY, Mrs C has used their MSE site in recent years to bag us some switched utility bills. She likes them!

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Re: New HYP Picks

#442847

Postby JohnnyCyclops » September 16th, 2021, 10:36 pm

I've now reviewed the four smallest holdings and it's grim reading. KIE, CNA, WG., SGC.

One, we're down on capital ~80%.

Two, all of them got top-ups along the way (although in WG. case the monies were invested in AMEC/AMFW).

Three, none of them seem in a good state, and no sign of a dividend again. As noted above, other than SGC, three had already cancelled or cut the dividend pre-Covid.

SGC seems a shadow of itself, having bailed out of trains. CNA is shrinking and looks like it sold of a profitable US division. Etc. Etc.

WG. potentially has so prospect of riding the economic cycle back to prosperity. And CNA ponders if wholesale energy price increases will boost its upstream business. But, for the dividend hunter that's all speculative.

All long hand for saying, for the first time in ten years of HYPing, we're going to sell these four. Combined, the sale cash is roughly 90% of the current median holding value in the HYP - i.e. not enough to cannibalise these four into a single new holding. But, we'll add that cash to the rest.

Clearing them out may make space for new stocks in EXISTING sectors that are otherwise currently "blocked" (for total amounts invested). Although one might argue, simply say selling CNA still means we have already invested enough into Utilities sector and may not want to rush in there again. Time to go fiddle with the HYPTUSS again and "dummy run" the possible additions (BDEV, TW., RMG, MONY) and deletions (CNA, WG. KIE, SGC).

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Re: New HYP Picks

#442871

Postby idpickering » September 17th, 2021, 6:35 am

JohnnyCyclops wrote:I've now reviewed the four smallest holdings and it's grim reading. KIE, CNA, WG., SGC.

One, we're down on capital ~80%.

Two, all of them got top-ups along the way (although in WG. case the monies were invested in AMEC/AMFW).

Three, none of them seem in a good state, and no sign of a dividend again. As noted above, other than SGC, three had already cancelled or cut the dividend pre-Covid.

SGC seems a shadow of itself, having bailed out of trains. CNA is shrinking and looks like it sold of a profitable US division. Etc. Etc.

WG. potentially has so prospect of riding the economic cycle back to prosperity. And CNA ponders if wholesale energy price increases will boost its upstream business. But, for the dividend hunter that's all speculative.

All long hand for saying, for the first time in ten years of HYPing, we're going to sell these four. Combined, the sale cash is roughly 90% of the current median holding value in the HYP - i.e. not enough to cannibalise these four into a single new holding. But, we'll add that cash to the rest.

Clearing them out may make space for new stocks in EXISTING sectors that are otherwise currently "blocked" (for total amounts invested). Although one might argue, simply say selling CNA still means we have already invested enough into Utilities sector and may not want to rush in there again. Time to go fiddle with the HYPTUSS again and "dummy run" the possible additions (BDEV, TW., RMG, MONY) and deletions (CNA, WG. KIE, SGC).


An great post, and thanks for keeping us up to date with your thinking on this matter. OK, HYP is meant to be a long term hold game, but I do support HYPers right to manage their HYPs however they see fit. For what it's worth, I support you selling the shares you've mentioned.

I look forward to seeing how this all pans out for you.

Ian.

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Re: New HYP Picks

#442973

Postby funduffer » September 17th, 2021, 12:11 pm

I wish I could steel myself to dispose of my 2 non-payers - Stagecoach (SGC) and Marstons (MARS).

I keep waiting for my target exit price, but it never seems to reach it!

Maybe give it another month, then ditch and re-invest.

FD

tjh290633
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Re: New HYP Picks

#443082

Postby tjh290633 » September 17th, 2021, 4:40 pm

funduffer wrote:I wish I could steel myself to dispose of my 2 non-payers - Stagecoach (SGC) and Marstons (MARS).

I keep waiting for my target exit price, but it never seems to reach it!

Maybe give it another month, then ditch and re-invest.

FD

Stagecoach I got rid of in March 2008, when their yield fell below my cut-off point, the SP having risen to 257p and the dividend risen to 4.25p. giving a yield of 1.65%. In my view they have never since come back into contention. By 2014 the dividend was 9.5p and the SP was about 370p.

Marstons I still hold in hope. You have to have belief in the Great British Drinking Public. One does one's best.

TJH


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