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Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

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idpickering
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Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#458360

Postby idpickering » November 16th, 2021, 7:14 am

Here; viewtopic.php?p=458357#p458357

The item includes this;

Dividend payments

The Group paid two interim dividends of 21.06 pence per share in June and September 2021.

The Board has approved a further interim dividend of 48.48 pence per share and will propose a final dividend of 48.48 pence per share, bringing the total dividend for the year to 139.08 pence.

The third interim dividend will be paid on 31 December 2021 to shareholders registered on 26 November 2021. Subject to AGM approval, the proposed final dividend will be paid on 31 March 2022 to shareholders registered on 18 February 2022.

In the year there were £1,305 million of shareholder dividend payments (2020: £1,753 million). The 25 per cent reduction represents the FY21 impact of the one-third rebasing of the dividend announced in May 2020 as part of the revised capital allocation policy to accelerate debt reduction.


Ian.

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#458370

Postby monabri » November 16th, 2021, 7:41 am

Divi increased by 1%.

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#458402

Postby idpickering » November 16th, 2021, 9:31 am

monabri wrote:Divi increased by 1%.


Hold me back! It's better than nothing I guess. I don't hold these anyway, favouring BATS as my tobacco share pick. ;)

Ian.

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#459803

Postby MaraMan » November 21st, 2021, 11:53 am

Interesting that Questor in the Telegraph recommended buy for IMB in view of its reasonably secure large dividend and being out of favour with all but IT's etc. I remember back in 2018 posting thoughts that big tobacco was only going one way, and despite the general disagreement I faced at the time I see they are down around 40-50% in that time.
As I am now retired and living off of dividends and pensions I am again considering getting back into IMB. 9% div, share buy backs and a share price that will probably only go one way if and when this growth focus by the market peters out are quite attractive.
MM

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/s ... vestments/

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#459851

Postby csearle » November 21st, 2021, 3:23 pm

They are in the addiction business. I think that they will continue to find something to sell.

Chris
(I hold.)

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#460461

Postby Arborbridge » November 24th, 2021, 7:09 am

MaraMan wrote:Interesting that Questor in the Telegraph recommended buy for IMB in view of its reasonably secure large dividend and being out of favour with all but IT's etc. I remember back in 2018 posting thoughts that big tobacco was only going one way, and despite the general disagreement I faced at the time I see they are down around 40-50% in that time.
As I am now retired and living off of dividends and pensions I am again considering getting back into IMB. 9% div, share buy backs and a share price that will probably only go one way if and when this growth focus by the market peters out are quite attractive.
MM

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/investing/s ... vestments/


I remember reading some investment manager's comment at least ten years ago that Imperial was the better bet between it and BATs for long term appeal - mainly on the grounds that it was underpriced and could be subject to a take over bid.

Ah well!.....

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#460468

Postby Arborbridge » November 24th, 2021, 7:24 am

monabri wrote:Divi increased by 1%.


Isn't it big decrease for the full year?

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#460474

Postby monabri » November 24th, 2021, 8:21 am

Arborbridge wrote:
monabri wrote:Divi increased by 1%.


Isn't it big decrease for the full year?


Actually a 0.99% increase . Time has flown quickly ;)

https://www.dividenddata.co.uk/dividend ... y?epic=IMB

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#460478

Postby Arborbridge » November 24th, 2021, 8:30 am

monabri wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:
monabri wrote:Divi increased by 1%.


Isn't it big decrease for the full year?


Actually a 0.99% increase . Time has flown quickly ;)

https://www.dividenddata.co.uk/dividend ... y?epic=IMB


I guess that's in accounting years.
Somewhat peversely, perhaps, I am more interested in what I booked as income in the calendar year. Company years are interesting to others for comparison, but income falling in a given year is more relevant to setting my pension withdrawals.

Unless I've made a boo boo, I have a drop from 2020 to end 2021 of 161.7 to 138.6, 14%.

Arb.

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#460481

Postby Dod101 » November 24th, 2021, 8:41 am

Arborbridge wrote:
monabri wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:
Isn't it big decrease for the full year?


Actually a 0.99% increase . Time has flown quickly ;)

https://www.dividenddata.co.uk/dividend ... y?epic=IMB


I guess that's in accounting years.
Somewhat peversely, perhaps, I am more interested in what I booked as income in the calendar year. Company years are interesting to others for comparison, but income falling in a given year is more relevant to setting my pension withdrawals.

Unless I've made a boo boo, I have a drop from 2020 to end 2021 of 161.7 to 138.6, 14%.

Arb.


I think you are right because the 31 March 2020 payment was the last dividend before the cut.

Dod

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#460484

Postby monabri » November 24th, 2021, 8:54 am

Arborbridge wrote:
monabri wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:
Isn't it big decrease for the full year?


Actually a 0.99% increase . Time has flown quickly ;)

https://www.dividenddata.co.uk/dividend ... y?epic=IMB


I guess that's in accounting years.
Somewhat peversely, perhaps, I am more interested in what I booked as income in the calendar year. Company years are interesting to others for comparison, but income falling in a given year is more relevant to setting my pension withdrawals.

Unless I've made a boo boo, I have a drop from 2020 to end 2021 of 161.7 to 138.6, 14%.

Arb.


In accounting years the divi has increased but in calendar years your numbers are correct.

source : https://www.dividenddata.co.uk/dividend ... y?epic=IMB

Image

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#460562

Postby Arborbridge » November 24th, 2021, 1:36 pm

Here are the dividends for the dates on which I've logged payments. YOY has dropped 14%.

31-Mar-20 |    72 |        |                                                                                         
30-Jun-20 | 20.85 | |
30-Sep-20 | 20.85 | |
31-Dec-20 | 48 | |
| | 161.70 |
31-Mar-21 | 48.01 | |
30-Jun-21 | 21.06 | |
30-Sep-21 | 21.06 | |
31-Dec-21 | 48.48 | |
| | 138.61 |


Arb.

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#460597

Postby Gengulphus » November 24th, 2021, 3:48 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
monabri wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:Isn't it big decrease for the full year?

Actually a 0.99% increase . Time has flown quickly ;)

https://www.dividenddata.co.uk/dividend ... y?epic=IMB

I guess that's in accounting years.

Well, yes, of course it is! Figures companies produce for their results announcements, annual and interim reports are generally produced for accounting years - and I'm fairly certain that it would be a breach of accounting standards for them to do anything else!

There are of course multiple figures that can be produced for an accounting year, and usually final results announcements and annual reports produce at least the dividends declared for the accounting year and the dividends that have been paid during the calendar year, basically because the former are set according to company earnings during the accounting year (so they relate to the income statement) and the latter report on cash leaving the company during the accounting year (so are an item in the cash flow statement). These results are no exception - from https://www.investegate.co.uk/imperial- ... 00085078S/:

Dividend payments

The Group paid two interim dividends of 21.06 pence per share in June and September 2021.

The Board has approved a further interim dividend of 48.48 pence per share and will propose a final dividend of 48.48 pence per share, bringing the total dividend for the year to 139.08 pence.

The third interim dividend will be paid on 31 December 2021 to shareholders registered on 26 November 2021. Subject to AGM approval, the proposed final dividend will be paid on 31 March 2022 to shareholders registered on 18 February 2022.

In the year there were £1,305 million of shareholder dividend payments (2020: £1,753 million). The 25 per cent reduction represents the FY21 impact of the one-third rebasing of the dividend announced in May 2020 as part of the revised capital allocation policy to accelerate debt reduction.

That 25% reduction is for dividend payments made from October 2020 to September 2021, compared with those made from October 2019 to September 2020, and so takes two quarters of the dividend cut into account. In that context, your 14% reduction from calendar years, taking one quarter of it into account, fits pretty well.

The other aspect of this is that when reporting company results, it's an almost universal convention that the emphasis is on what's happened to company earnings and related figures such as declared dividends. My guess is that that's because those are the new information in the results - that "In the year there were £1,305 million of shareholder dividend payments" figure has been completely determinable ever since October 1st by anyone prepared to track how many shares the company had in issue on the relevant ex-dividend dates (and almost completely determinable for some weeks before that - "almost" only because the directors could in principle have declared an extra, surprise interim dividend).

Arborbridge wrote:Somewhat peversely, perhaps, I am more interested in what I booked as income in the calendar year. Company years are interesting to others for comparison, but income falling in a given year is more relevant to setting my pension withdrawals.

Well, I don't think it's at all perverse of you to be interested in the figure that affects your practical arrangements for the dividend payments. But you shouldn't be at all surprised that that sometimes results in reported figures that differ markedly from the figures you personally are interested in (nor should anyone else, by the way, whatever their preferred practical arrangements - the facts that January-to-December and April-to-March accounting years are both very common for HYP companies, July-to-June and October-to-September accounting years less popular but by no means unknown, and that there's even a scattering of others are enough to ensure that).

Essentially, everyone has some personal 'perversities' of this type, and everyone needs to translate reported results into their own preferred form from time to time...

Gengulphus

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#460603

Postby monabri » November 24th, 2021, 4:04 pm

Gengulphus wrote:
Essentially, everyone has some personal 'perversities' of this type, and everyone needs to translate reported results into their own preferred form from time to time...

Gengulphus


I'm glad you qualified that comment!
;)

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#460616

Postby Arborbridge » November 24th, 2021, 5:04 pm

Gengulphus wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:
monabri wrote:Actually a 0.99% increase . Time has flown quickly ;)

https://www.dividenddata.co.uk/dividend ... y?epic=IMB

I guess that's in accounting years.

Well, yes, of course it is! Figures companies produce for their results announcements, annual and interim reports are generally produced for accounting years - and I'm fairly certain that it would be a breach of accounting standards for them to do anything else!

There are of course multiple figures that can be produced for an accounting year, and usually final results announcements and annual reports produce at least the dividends declared for the accounting year and the dividends that have been paid during the calendar year, basically because the former are set according to company earnings during the accounting year (so they relate to the income statement) and the latter report on cash leaving the company during the accounting year (so are an item in the cash flow statement). These results are no exception - from https://www.investegate.co.uk/imperial- ... 00085078S/:

Dividend payments

The Group paid two interim dividends of 21.06 pence per share in June and September 2021.

The Board has approved a further interim dividend of 48.48 pence per share and will propose a final dividend of 48.48 pence per share, bringing the total dividend for the year to 139.08 pence.

The third interim dividend will be paid on 31 December 2021 to shareholders registered on 26 November 2021. Subject to AGM approval, the proposed final dividend will be paid on 31 March 2022 to shareholders registered on 18 February 2022.

In the year there were £1,305 million of shareholder dividend payments (2020: £1,753 million). The 25 per cent reduction represents the FY21 impact of the one-third rebasing of the dividend announced in May 2020 as part of the revised capital allocation policy to accelerate debt reduction.

That 25% reduction is for dividend payments made from October 2020 to September 2021, compared with those made from October 2019 to September 2020, and so takes two quarters of the dividend cut into account. In that context, your 14% reduction from calendar years, taking one quarter of it into account, fits pretty well.

The other aspect of this is that when reporting company results, it's an almost universal convention that the emphasis is on what's happened to company earnings and related figures such as declared dividends. My guess is that that's because those are the new information in the results - that "In the year there were £1,305 million of shareholder dividend payments" figure has been completely determinable ever since October 1st by anyone prepared to track how many shares the company had in issue on the relevant ex-dividend dates (and almost completely determinable for some weeks before that - "almost" only because the directors could in principle have declared an extra, surprise interim dividend).

Arborbridge wrote:Somewhat peversely, perhaps, I am more interested in what I booked as income in the calendar year. Company years are interesting to others for comparison, but income falling in a given year is more relevant to setting my pension withdrawals.

Well, I don't think it's at all perverse of you to be interested in the figure that affects your practical arrangements for the dividend payments. But you shouldn't be at all surprised that that sometimes results in reported figures that differ markedly from the figures you personally are interested in (nor should anyone else, by the way, whatever their preferred practical arrangements - the facts that January-to-December and April-to-March accounting years are both very common for HYP companies, July-to-June and October-to-September accounting years less popular but by no means unknown, and that there's even a scattering of others are enough to ensure that).

Essentially, everyone has some personal 'perversities' of this type, and everyone needs to translate reported results into their own preferred form from time to time...

Gengulphus


There was no "of course it is" : I was remarking about a figure quoted at second or third hand - not from the company website. So in my view, clarifying that difference was perfectly reasonable!

And neither was I "surprised" that that was the case - indeed, from my wording ("I guess that's in accounting years") it is clear that I expected that to explain the difference.

Arb.

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#460673

Postby Gengulphus » November 24th, 2021, 7:42 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
Gengulphus wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:I guess that's in accounting years.

Well, yes, of course it is! Figures companies produce for their results announcements, annual and interim reports are generally produced for accounting years - and I'm fairly certain that it would be a breach of accounting standards for them to do anything else!
...

There was no "of course it is" : I was remarking about a figure quoted at second or third hand - not from the company website. So in my view, clarifying that difference was perfectly reasonable!

It would indeed have been - if you had clarified it. But what you in fact did in response to monabri's "Divi increased by 1%." was ask the question "Isn't it big decrease for the full year?", with no explanation at the time why you thought that or even how big you thought the decrease was, and apparently no attempt to trace the 1% figure back to its company source (*). In further posts, you then 'guessed' that it was due to being calculated by accounting years... And at that point in my reading of the thread, I thought it worth clarifying that we're dealing with completely standard accounting and results-reporting conventions here, not matters about which there is any real doubt. That's mainly for the sake of any little-experienced HYPers who might be reading this thread.

In short, clarifying the situation would have consisted of going to the results RNS and citing the company figures, not raising vague questions about what is very standard practice for such figures. Once clarified, you could then have said that the company-calculated percentage drop wasn't the relevant one for your purposes, without risking misleading anyone about it possibly being miscalculated. And examples of where company figures are correct but can potentially mislead little-experienced HYPers are just the sort of practicalities that are supposed to be the subject of this board!

(*) Which is not difficult - it's very standard with these "... posted on Company News" threads of Ian's that one clicks on the link he supplies to go to the Company News thread and looks for the source among the link or two he posts in it.

Gengulphus

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Re: Imperial Brands Finals posted on Company News.

#460684

Postby csearle » November 24th, 2021, 8:21 pm

Moderator Message:
Enough guys. Thanks - Chris


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