My next HYP "unpick"

[MrFoolish]

What would Doris do? Or her accountant?

[Arborbridge]

Well, I am amused by the discussion on this and I'm pleased to have stimulated you all by poking with a stick

Yes, the stop loss triggered and I'm sure it will be followed by a period of mourning and what might have been, if the price rises. It will cause some loss of income as there is nothing of similar yield I fancy, but by no means a critical loss.

As to Ian's comment - who hasn't used a stop loss in his life, but got out of VOD sometime ago. Well, in a sense he and I are no different. He had an internal clock which told him that time was up with VOD based on his various criteria - that was his stop loss. I'd say that's not a lot different: I too decided time was up and that I should get out of VOD if the price fell through a limit.

Many of us have limits, but apply them in different ways. Mine just happens to be a clean mathematical one which has been given a name.

The final result is that VOD has earned me a XIRR of 1.80% (thrilled! ) but whether and at what point it would have picked up, I don't know. As regards capital, I was 50% down over the years - but they gave it back to me in dividends.

Now VOD joins my list of "Dead Souls", which I really should publish one day soon.

As regards whether to tincker or not: I have always said that I am a slow tinkerer, but oddly two have come within the space of three weeks. And yes, VOD was uncharacteristic for me because I wouldn't normally sell a HYP share unless the dividend had been suspended with no hope of imminent recovery.

Usually, I wait for some self healing: to prove the point, I am still waiting for Lloyds in that respect. It's been a long time, and hasn't arrived yet.

Arb.

[kempiejon]

Cheers Arb, as you say a good stimulus. As for remorse, don't look back. I usually don't but you can't help it, something caught my eye the other day about Rolls Royce. My shares were dumped last year I think, no dividend for a few years and unsheltered so for the chop. I had made some capital gain but if I still held them I'd have doubled from my sell but with still no income. Is the money away to a collective did you say?

[idpickering]

Well, I am amused by the discussion on this and I'm pleased to have stimulated you all by poking with a stick

Yes, the stop loss triggered and I'm sure it will be followed by a period of mourning and what might have been, if the price rises. It will cause some loss of income as there is nothing of similar yield I fancy, but by no means a critical loss.

As to Ian's comment - who hasn't used a stop loss in his life, but got out of VOD sometime ago. Well, in a sense he and I are no different. He had an internal clock which told him that time was up with VOD based on his various criteria - that was his stop loss. I'd say that's not a lot different: I too decided time was up and that I should get out of VOD if the price fell through a limit.

Many of us have limits, but apply them in different ways. Mine just happens to be a clean mathematical one which has been given a name.

The final result is that VOD has earned me a XIRR of 1.80% (thrilled! ) but whether and at what point it would have picked up, I don't know. As regards capital, I was 50% down over the years - but they gave it back to me in dividends.

Now VOD joins my list of "Dead Souls", which I really should publish one day soon.

As regards whether to tincker or not: I have always said that I am a slow tinkerer, but oddly two have come within the space of three weeks. And yes, VOD was uncharacteristic for me because I wouldn't normally sell a HYP share unless the dividend had been suspended with no hope of imminent recovery.

Usually, I wait for some self healing: to prove the point, I am still waiting for Lloyds in that respect. It's been a long time, and hasn't arrived yet.

Arb.

Thanks for the update Arb. I wish you well with your next move.

You're right in what you say though. VOD hit my own internal stop loss so to speak, so I acted. I think it was a crass move for me to buy back into them, VOD, in the first place...or was it the second/third time? You live and learn. This has been a very interesting thread, thank you.

Ian.

[kempiejon]

Thanks for the update Arb. I wish you well with your next move.

You're right in what you say though. VOD hit my own internal stop loss so to speak, so I acted. I think it was a crass move for me to buy back into them, VOD, in the first place. You live and learn. This has been a very interesting thread, thank you.

Ian.

I know I can't know other investors' minds and have parroted the "what let's you sleep at night" mindset of portfolio management. I did mock Arb up thread as a turncoat stop loss no less seller, but I don't really care how any of the rest of you run your little bundles of shares. Do as you see fit, I know I do my HYP is still pretty much without unforced sales.
You'll have only had to crassly rebuy because you'd sold previously. Capital isn't the primary objective but income is what we care about still holds for VOD to my mind. The Verizon shenanigans ages ago was a nuisance I didn't want to be lumbered with the foreign component and it was very much selling the golden goose I thought and years of unchanged dividends are both blackmarks in my book but HYP is long term buy and hold, ideally for ever.
We can't know how VOD will go on from here, obviously you sellers might regret an uplift in capital and income and I'll not want to see a dividend cut or even a takeover at bargain prices but that's the game isn't it.

[IanTHughes]

A couple of questions for idpickering and Arborbridge

1. When did you buy your now sold holding of Vodafone PLC (VOD), and based on what premise or share analysis?

2. What has changed within VOD since your purchase, that has alarmed you such that you felt obliged to sell, apart from the share price dropping and the subsequent increase in yield?

Enjoy!


Ian

[idpickering]

A couple of questions for idpickering and Arborbridge

1. When did you buy your now sold holding of Vodafone PLC (VOD), and based on what premise or share analysis?

2. What has changed within VOD since your purchase, that has alarmed you such that you felt obliged to sell, apart from the share price dropping and the subsequent increase in yield?

Enjoy!


Ian

I'm not rising to your obvious baiting.

Ian.

[Arborbridge]

Thanks for the update Arb. I wish you well with your next move.

You're right in what you say though. VOD hit my own internal stop loss so to speak, so I acted. I think it was a crass move for me to buy back into them, VOD, in the first place. You live and learn. This has been a very interesting thread, thank you.

Ian.

I know I can't know other investors' minds and have parroted the "what let's you sleep at night" mindset of portfolio management. I did mock Arb up thread as a turncoat stop loss no less seller, but I don't really care how any of the rest of you run your little bundles of shares. Do as you see fit, I know I do my HYP is still pretty much without unforced sales.
You'll have only had to crassly rebuy because you'd sold previously. Capital isn't the primary objective but income is what we care about still holds for VOD to my mind. The Verizon shenanigans ages ago was a nuisance I didn't want to be lumbered with the foreign component and it was very much selling the golden goose I thought and years of unchanged dividends are both blackmarks in my book but HYP is long term buy and hold, ideally for ever.
We can't know how VOD will go on from here, obviously you sellers might regret an uplift in capital and income and I'll not want to see a dividend cut or even a takeover at bargain prices but that's the game isn't it.

Yes, well said. I think my doubts about VOD go back a long way, and it has always been a troublesome share - at least in my "head". I'm not sorry to sell, although in the strictest sense (HYPwise) I should not have done so. I acknowledge all that and plead that even an experienced HYPer sometimes falls short of sainthood.

Arb.

[Arborbridge]

A couple of questions for idpickering and Arborbridge

1. When did you buy your now sold holding of Vodafone PLC (VOD), and based on what premise or share analysis?

2. What has changed within VOD since your purchase, that has alarmed you such that you felt obliged to sell, apart from the share price dropping and the subsequent increase in yield?

Enjoy!


Ian

August 2006 at 112p. It seemed like the mobile phone business was a good one to go for. Some of my other thoughts you will find in my immediately prior post.

Enjoy!

[csearle]

I'm not rising to your obvious baiting.

I don't see that as baiting. I see that as a reasonable question. If there is some concrete reasoning behind the decisions then we could perhaps all learn from it; if there is none, i.e. it was some kind of intangible feeling, then we could learn from that too. C.

[idpickering]

I don't see that as baiting. I see that as a reasonable question. If there is some concrete reasoning behind the decisions then we could perhaps all learn from it; if there is none, i.e. it was some kind of intangible feeling, then we could learn from that too. C.

Fair enough Chris. I wasn't trying to be a wise guy or anything. For me VOD's high yield should've been enough of a red flag, and is firmly in the 'to good to be true' area IMHO. I might be wrong of course, who knows?

Ian.

[Arborbridge]

I'm not rising to your obvious baiting.

I don't see that as baiting. I see that as a reasonable question. If there is some concrete reasoning behind the decisions then we could perhaps all learn from it; if there is none, i.e. it was some kind of intangible feeling, then we could learn from that too. C.

It is a reasonable question, but a poster may not want to get into a rough and tumble or circular argument. I think refusing to engage is a fair position to take as we have seen some unecessarily harsh comments in the past.


Arb

[Arborbridge]

The next question I shall amswer before it is asked:

I have made a small topup of D S Smith. The balance will be retained for the moment and likely to be used to build up my IT holdings in SOI and MYI. Alternatively, there is an outside chance of starting a new holding. though I am not in a hurry to do that.

AAMOI, the only other HYP shares in that broker account are PSN, ABDN and IGG.

Arb.

[idpickering]

It is a reasonable question, but a poster may not want to get into a rough and tumble or circular argument. I think refusing to engage is a fair position to take as we have seen some unecessarily harsh comments in the past.


Arb

Well said Arb. You read my mind. That's pretty much why I shy away from engaging with certain posters here.

Ian.

[kempiejon]

I have made a small topup of D S Smith.

We were just discussing the suitability of SMDS. https://lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=631253#p631253 As said I think we can forgive them the Covid cancellation, so excluding that about a decade of increasing dividends, good cover, high yield at 6ish - not too high.

AAMOI, the only other HYP shares in that broker account are PSN, ABDN and IGG.

PSN erratic history, ABDN - cutter? or was that a merge? IGG could be?

[Arborbridge]

I have made a small topup of D S Smith.

We were just discussing the suitability of SMDS. https://lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=631253#p631253 As said I think we can forgive them the Covid cancellation, so excluding that about a decade of increasing dividends, good cover, high yield at 6ish - not too high.

AAMOI, the only other HYP shares in that broker account are PSN, ABDN and IGG.

PSN erratic history, ABDN - cutter? or was that a merge? IGG could be?

Thanks for the hints, much appreciated. IGG was a possible because it has been good to me in the past. However, it did so well that it is one of the few shares I have had to trim (like Terry) so it seemed a bit counterintuitive to top it up.
However, when the dust settles on today's hyperactive dealings, I shall think about that. IGG is a decent yield, but it is already standing at 1.2x median weight - not OTT, I grant you.

Thanks for your help.
Arb.

[Arborbridge]

Google Finance is showing a brief dip to 68.75p earlier this morning -

https://www.google.com/finance/quote/VOD:LON

Did your 69p stop-loss do it's job?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

That's the perennial problem with stop losses, getting stopped out and the price bounces back. I have used stop losses in the past but not generally. A trailing stop loss would be more useful but I don't think any retail platforms offer that.

When it comes to conventional investing, I wouldn't dream of buying shares without already determining what the stop loss should be, and setting one when I had bought. Ther's no excuse for making a big loss when a stop loss can be put on for free.
HYP is very peculiar, in my view, in that one is investing without a stop loss safety net - one relies only on the mitigating factors to reduce the risk.

Arb.

[daveh]

The next question I shall amswer before it is asked:

I have made a small topup of D S Smith. The balance will be retained for the moment and likely to be used to build up my IT holdings in SOI and MYI. Alternatively, there is an outside chance of starting a new holding. though I am not in a hurry to do that.

AAMOI, the only other HYP shares in that broker account are PSN, ABDN and IGG.

Arb.

Couple of suggestions. I'm planning on starting a position in UKW to go with GSF and TRIG. I think now could be a good time to buy one or more of the renewable trusts as most or all are sitting at a significant discount. You might find GSF a bit too high a yield, but UKW (and TRIG) are much more reasonable at 5-6%.

Mentioned in another thread were the brokers HL and AJB as alternatives to IGG and ABDN. Not ones I own but the thread commented that they are sitting at lows price wise have good yields and have increased their divis for a number of years and are both still throwing off lots of cash.

[Newroad]

Hi Arb.

On a related note, I topped up SMDS in the LSE opening auction on Monday @ 301.1p.

Regards, Newroad

[Arborbridge]

The next question I shall amswer before it is asked:

I have made a small topup of D S Smith. The balance will be retained for the moment and likely to be used to build up my IT holdings in SOI and MYI. Alternatively, there is an outside chance of starting a new holding. though I am not in a hurry to do that.

AAMOI, the only other HYP shares in that broker account are PSN, ABDN and IGG.

Arb.

Couple of suggestions. I'm planning on starting a position in UKW to go with GSF and TRIG. I think now could be a good time to buy one or more of the renewable trusts as most or all are sitting at a significant discount. You might find GSF a bit too high a yield, but UKW (and TRIG) are much more reasonable at 5-6%.

Mentioned in another thread were the brokers HL and AJB as alternatives to IGG and ABDN. Not ones I own but the thread commented that they are sitting at lows price wise have good yields and have increased their divis for a number of years and are both still throwing off lots of cash.

Thanks. I already have UKW, but I might take another look at TRIG. For some reason. I have always passed it over in favour of UKW.

Arb.