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HYP - FAQ, is there one?

For discussion of the practicalities of setting up and operating income-portfolios which follow the HYP Group Guidelines. READ Guidelines before posting
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DiamondEcho
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HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#88886

Postby DiamondEcho » October 17th, 2017, 4:00 pm

...if there is could it be more prominently flagged; and if there isn't should we go about formulating one?

I ask because I cannot locate one. And because the original rules I roughly have in mind are from TMF, and dating from pre-2000 are perhaps due a revisit. It would also help focus discussion to HYPable shares, and spare meanders onto others. Lastly, if any Lemons wished to have a go at cranking a periodic HYPable shares list, it might reduce the very broad 'What should I buy' questions, and give them more of a 'Should I buy A or B?' focus...

monabri
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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#88903

Postby monabri » October 17th, 2017, 4:54 pm

Perhaps like this one?


Image

DiamondEcho
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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#88908

Postby DiamondEcho » October 17th, 2017, 5:22 pm

monabri wrote:Perhaps like this one?


Hehe, if it were so simple. But that's a general forum FAQ rather than a HYP FAQ.

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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#88912

Postby moorfield » October 17th, 2017, 5:36 pm

DiamondEcho wrote: It would also help focus discussion to HYPable shares, and spare meanders onto others. Lastly, if any Lemons wished to have a go at cranking a periodic HYPable shares list, it might reduce the very broad 'What should I buy' questions, and give them more of a 'Should I buy A or B?' focus...


I think we discussed that idea over the summer in the context of the board use, and didn't make much progress with it IIRC.

DiamondEcho
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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#88918

Postby DiamondEcho » October 17th, 2017, 6:04 pm

Yes I recall it being floated before. Perhaps we could start with what the original parameters were - if we can agree that ;) - and then consider bringing it into the present day? Amending the various suggested benchmarks to bring them into the present day for the core hurdles/metrics, and perhaps adding any new metrics that are simpler and generally easily accessible, and of notable value, that weren't available back in the 90s.

Gengulphus
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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#88946

Postby Gengulphus » October 17th, 2017, 7:31 pm

Frankly, I think it's a massive task, made even harder by the fact that a FAQ needs to talk about controversial topics like "strategic ignorance" without actually sparking the controversy. Requires a lot of effort and being very diplomatic in the process!

I suspect it's actually too big a task to all be done by one person - and IMHO the way to deal with that isn't to try to organise it by committee, because I only remember ever seeing one such attempt actually get anywhere (other than "bogged down"!), and that was with a 'committee' of just two people. Instead, it requires people to 'grab ownership' of some part of the job and push it forward - while remaining reasonably objective and diplomatic about it: a 'FAQ' that favours one side of the tinkering debate, or of the "strategic ignorance" debate, or of the foreign shares debate, etc, will not command respect.

Also, at least some parts of the job have to involve some sort of consensus between the FAQ writers and the moderators: e.g. a FAQ that says something is a HYP and moderators who say it isn't is a recipe for confusion and disruption! Not saying that's a major issue, but I am saying that one should expect a fair amount of detailed negotiation about it - and that if that negotiation hasn't happened, there's probably some undiscovered conflicts lurking...

Anyway, I should practice what I preach, so I'll 'grab ownership' of producing some sort of FAQ about HYP1 and CHYP1. I've got a large amount of archived material about them - it will take some effort to convert it into FAQ-style posts, but it is basically there to be converted and not lost with the TMF boards. My guess is that the best way to do that is for me to write those posts (there will almost certainly have to be more than one such post due to various size limits on posts), then post them to a "DRAFT FAQ: HYP1 and CHYP1" thread with a request to respond with corrections, additional objective information, etc, but not opinions about how good/bad they are as portfolios (that's an endless debate...). Revise as needed and then repost the final versions to a thread that is then promptly locked: to do its job well, an FAQ must not have reams of discussion mixed in with it! (Linked to from it, maybe - I can imagine creating a parallel unlocked "Discussion about the FAQ: XXX" thread for each locked "FAQ: XXX" thread, with links both ways between them.)

None of that is set in stone, by the way - just my best idea of how to proceed at present...

Gengulphus

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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#89003

Postby idpickering » October 18th, 2017, 6:05 am

That's very commendable Gengulphus, and I can't think of many more qualified that you to take on such a task. As an aside, I'd like to see a link to the original HYP FAQs and PYADs opening ideas/suggestions easily found right here on this HYP Practical Board page.

Ian.

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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#89021

Postby Raptor » October 18th, 2017, 8:18 am

I would prefer that we start a "new" slate and move on from PYAD's originals as, to my mind, HYP has evolved. No problem in referring to them in threads/topis/posts but keep them away from any new FAQ's.

Raptor.

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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#89025

Postby jackdaww » October 18th, 2017, 8:31 am

Raptor wrote:I would prefer that we start a "new" slate and move on from PYAD's originals as, to my mind, HYP has evolved. No problem in referring to them in threads/topis/posts but keep them away from any new FAQ's.

Raptor.


===============================

much better idea !!! and could be implemented faster , rather than interminable navel gazeing (no disrespect intended to anyone) .

:D

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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#89030

Postby 77ss » October 18th, 2017, 8:42 am

Raptor wrote:I would prefer that we start a "new" slate and move on from PYAD's originals as, to my mind, HYP has evolved. No problem in referring to them in threads/topis/posts but keep them away from any new FAQ's.

Raptor.


Quite.

I do hope that the request for a FAQ is not just a back door effort to impose an overly rigid view of what constitutes an HYP share!

idpickering
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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#89037

Postby idpickering » October 18th, 2017, 9:08 am

77ss wrote:
Raptor wrote:I would prefer that we start a "new" slate and move on from PYAD's originals as, to my mind, HYP has evolved. No problem in referring to them in threads/topis/posts but keep them away from any new FAQ's.

Raptor.


Quite.

I do hope that the request for a FAQ is not just a back door effort to impose an overly rigid view of what constitutes an HYP share!


77ss,

Not that old chestnut again? :D

Raptor

I respect your view, and that could be a way to go I guess. I just feel that a reminder as to why we're all here in the first place may be handy, and showing respect to PYAD in the process too.

Ian.

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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#89054

Postby moorfield » October 18th, 2017, 10:43 am

Raptor wrote:I would prefer that we start a "new" slate and move on from PYAD's originals as, to my mind, HYP has evolved.


Well said. If we stuck to pyad's orginal idea this would be a very quiet place, moderated by "doris" perhaps, in fact I see she hasn't even bothered to register here!

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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#89069

Postby Grumpsimus » October 18th, 2017, 12:00 pm

moorfield wrote:
Raptor wrote:I would prefer that we start a "new" slate and move on from PYAD's originals as, to my mind, HYP has evolved.


Well said. If we stuck to pyad's orginal idea this would be a very quiet place, moderated by "doris" perhaps, in fact I see she hasn't even bothered to register here!


Of course "doris" hasn't registered here, wasn't she the ultimate passive investor and certainly wouldn't bother even looking at newsgroups, let alone registering. In any case I understand that she died sometime ago and I think it is a bit difficult to register when you are dead and probably against the rules of the board.

The whole essence of HYP investing is that it should be very quiet, once you have a portfolio of HY shares you leave them alone, unless you have to do something i.e. respond to a coporate action. You just sit back let the dividends accumulate or spend them as appropriate.

I feel the whole 'new slate' idea is just misconceived, it will result in reinventing something very similar to the PYAD original HYP. I have always thought of HYP as an approach to investing which tries minimise the weakness of private investors i.e. buying at the top of the market and selling at the bottom, over trading incurring heavy costs, and maximise their advantages i.e. taking a long term view as opposed to the short term views of most professionals in the market.

The place is to start from the PYAD original HYP and develop it. Point out where differences occur i.e. tinkering, number of shares etc. There is not a single model HYP, rather an approach to investing which flows from the original PYAD HYP.

idpickering
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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#89072

Postby idpickering » October 18th, 2017, 12:15 pm

Grumpsimus wrote:
Of course "doris" hasn't registered here, wasn't she the ultimate passive investor and certainly wouldn't bother even looking at newsgroups, let alone registering. In any case I understand that she died sometime ago and I think it is a bit difficult to register when you are dead and probably against the rules of the board.

The whole essence of HYP investing is that it should be very quiet, once you have a portfolio of HY shares you leave them alone, unless you have to do something i.e. respond to a coporate action. You just sit back let the dividends accumulate or spend them as appropriate.

I feel the whole 'new slate' idea is just misconceived, it will result in reinventing something very similar to the PYAD original HYP. I have always thought of HYP as an approach to investing which tries minimise the weakness of private investors i.e. buying at the top of the market and selling at the bottom, over trading incurring heavy costs, and maximise their advantages i.e. taking a long term view as opposed to the short term views of most professionals in the market.

The place is to start from the PYAD original HYP and develop it. Point out where differences occur i.e. tinkering, number of shares etc. There is not a single model HYP, rather an approach to investing which flows from the original PYAD HYP.


Well said Grumpsimus. Have a rec/thanks. I think venturing to far from the original HYP 'rules' and ideas shouldn't be on this board at all, but the other one. My name is Ian, and I am a Stephen Bland groupie..... :D

Ian.

CryptoPlankton
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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#89076

Postby CryptoPlankton » October 18th, 2017, 12:43 pm

moorfield wrote:
Raptor wrote:I would prefer that we start a "new" slate and move on from PYAD's originals as, to my mind, HYP has evolved.


Well said. If we stuck to pyad's orginal idea this would be a very quiet place, moderated by "doris" perhaps, in fact I see she hasn't even bothered to register here!

Both these points highlight the recurring problem with discussing high yield investing here (and previously at TMF). There are clearly a number of people who wish to keep the discussion on this board within its original "rules" and, as that is what the board was set up for, that really should be respected. However, a quick trawl through the posts on Ian's "How many shares do you have in your HYP?" thread was quite revealing. Of 33 people who talked about their portfolios, 25 felt the need to mention that they also had a number of one or more of IT's, ETF's and prefs as part of what they considered their income portfolios. The other 8 may or may not have other income investments, but were clearly able to talk about their HYP (how it should be) as a portfolio of ordinary shares.

I find myself as part of the group of 19 who also hold investment trusts to add diversification (both geographically and in the type of investments) to my income portfolio. They are bought alongside my ordinary shares and sit naturally with them in my investment accounts. While I am obviously interested in high yielding shares, and much of the discussion here is clearly of interest, I do feel restricted in what I can contribute. I don't treat my "HYP" as a separate entity so cannot talk about its yield or how it is progressing. I could list my HYP shares, but out of context that wouldn't be useful (for instance, I have no miners as I have a sizeable holding in BlackRock World Mining IT). I am okay with this, but it does seem as if a large number of posters may feel similarly constrained and that may go some way to explaining the apparent friction over what is acceptable on this forum.

I don't know what the answer is. I know there is the "High Yield Share Strategies - General" forum, but is that really the place to talk about "practical" issues for people holding a combination of the income investment instruments described. It does seem to be, as the name suggests, more about income strategies in general. I suppose, in the absence of a suitable board, that would be the only place where someone like myself could post about my portfolio performance, discuss the performance of specific IT's, ETF's and potential new purchases etc. But if a new purchase happened to be an ordinary share then shouldn't that also be discussed here? I'm not sure whether there are enough Lemons to make spreading discussions more thinly a very good idea.

HYP should have its own board and specific rules, but there seems to be a majority of people (posting, at least) who would like to broaden the conversation - the question is where else to take it so that it isn't to the detriment of the exchange of ideas and information?

moorfield
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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#89079

Postby moorfield » October 18th, 2017, 1:11 pm

CryptoPlankton wrote:I don't know what the answer is. I know there is the "High Yield Share Strategies - General" forum, but is that really the place to talk about "practical" issues for people holding a combination of the income investment instruments described. It does seem to be, as the name suggests, more about income strategies in general. I suppose, in the absence of a suitable board, that would be the only place where someone like myself could post about my portfolio performance, discuss the performance of specific IT's, ETF's and potential new purchases etc. But if a new purchase happened to be an ordinary share then shouldn't that also be discussed here? I'm not sure whether there are enough Lemons to make spreading discussions more thinly a very good idea.

HYP should have its own board and specific rules, but there seems to be a majority of people (posting, at least) who would like to broaden the conversation - the question is where else to take it so that it isn't to the detriment of the exchange of ideas and information?




Maybe the two boards should be renamed "Hard HYP" and "Soft HYP".

Remember HYP means HYP, and a bad HYP is better than no HYP!

:lol:

idpickering
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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#89088

Postby idpickering » October 18th, 2017, 1:56 pm

CryptoPlankton wrote:Both these points highlight the recurring problem with discussing high yield investing here (and previously at TMF). There are clearly a number of people who wish to keep the discussion on this board within its original "rules" and, as that is what the board was set up for, that really should be respected. However, a quick trawl through the posts on Ian's "How many shares do you have in your HYP?" thread was quite revealing. Of 33 people who talked about their portfolios, 25 felt the need to mention that they also had a number of one or more of IT's, ETF's and prefs as part of what they considered their income portfolios. The other 8 may or may not have other income investments, but were clearly able to talk about their HYP (how it should be) as a portfolio of ordinary shares.

I find myself as part of the group of 19 who also hold investment trusts to add diversification (both geographically and in the type of investments) to my income portfolio. They are bought alongside my ordinary shares and sit naturally with them in my investment accounts. While I am obviously interested in high yielding shares, and much of the discussion here is clearly of interest, I do feel restricted in what I can contribute. I don't treat my "HYP" as a separate entity so cannot talk about its yield or how it is progressing. I could list my HYP shares, but out of context that wouldn't be useful (for instance, I have no miners as I have a sizeable holding in BlackRock World Mining IT). I am okay with this, but it does seem as if a large number of posters may feel similarly constrained and that may go some way to explaining the apparent friction over what is acceptable on this forum.

I don't know what the answer is. I know there is the "High Yield Share Strategies - General" forum, but is that really the place to talk about "practical" issues for people holding a combination of the income investment instruments described. It does seem to be, as the name suggests, more about income strategies in general. I suppose, in the absence of a suitable board, that would be the only place where someone like myself could post about my portfolio performance, discuss the performance of specific IT's, ETF's and potential new purchases etc. But if a new purchase happened to be an ordinary share then shouldn't that also be discussed here? I'm not sure whether there are enough Lemons to make spreading discussions more thinly a very good idea.

HYP should have its own board and specific rules, but there seems to be a majority of people (posting, at least) who would like to broaden the conversation - the question is where else to take it so that it isn't to the detriment of the exchange of ideas and information?


Hi CryptoPlankton, that's a very good post. Thank you for your input there. For me, I am all for live and let live (man), and if posters decide to include ITs etc in their HYP, then who am I to gob off about it? with this in mind I think the best way forward is to the leave things as they are, and that we all lighten up a bit, remembering that we're part of a group of HYPers, of whatever form, and should learn to live together here. Life's to short to argue and bicker about this. All for one, and one for all!! Go HYPers!!

Ian.

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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#89112

Postby richfool » October 18th, 2017, 3:16 pm

CryptoPlankton wrote:I find myself as part of the group of 19 who also hold investment trusts to add diversification (both geographically and in the type of investments) to my income portfolio. They are bought alongside my ordinary shares and sit naturally with them in my investment accounts. While I am obviously interested in high yielding shares, and much of the discussion here is clearly of interest, I do feel restricted in what I can contribute. I don't treat my "HYP" as a separate entity so cannot talk about its yield or how it is progressing. I could list my HYP shares, but out of context that wouldn't be useful (for instance, I have no miners as I have a sizeable holding in BlackRock World Mining IT). I am okay with this, but it does seem as if a large number of posters may feel similarly constrained and that may go some way to explaining the apparent friction over what is acceptable on this forum.

Exactly. I am in the same boat (well a similar one). I too hold some HYP shares, but the majority of my portfolio is in IT's. I therefore didn't vote in the poll about the number of HYP shares I hold in my "HYP", and I don't often post on the HYP board because I feel I don't hold a true HYP and am not a true "HYP'er", (based on previous definitions), and I don't want to drag discussions away from what many may consider to be true HYP philosophy.

I aim at higher yielding investments, but not exclusively so. I also hold some lower yielding investments to provide growth and a growing income. For example, I hold stocks such as: (HYP) GSK, HSBA, LGEN, SLA, NG, through ULVR and onto such stocks as CPG & PRU and then (plus) many various IT's from many sectors.

So as said above, currently I don't think I fit the category or definition of a HYP'er.

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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#89119

Postby OLTB » October 18th, 2017, 3:53 pm

richfool wrote:
So as said above, currently I don't think I fit the category or definition of a HYP'er.

I find this an interesting topic! I do think of myself as a HYPer (as I have what I consider to be a HYP - 19 shares in 18 sectors). As I like to have my eggs in many baskets, I also have a John Baron IT portfolio (Summer) and a Passive portfolio (my own concoction - whatever that delivers is in the lap of the Gods!).

Therefore, I am interested in three boards - this one (where I am most active) as well as the Passive and IT/Unit Trust boards where I just lurk at the moment as the IT and Passive portfolios are not yet a year old.

As my HYP is just over a year old, I would be interested in your views richfool, as these boards are terrific to learn from HYPers and the trials and tribulations experienced.

Cheers, OLTB.

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Re: HYP - FAQ, is there one?

#89145

Postby tjh290633 » October 18th, 2017, 5:54 pm

I count myself as having an HYP, which I account for separately from the Funds which I hold, and other holdings like the ITs held for my Grandchildren and a few other AIM shares.

As it happens the HYP accounts for two-thirds of the total value, the funds for a quarter, and the remainder are one twelfth. I only normally comment on the HYP itself, unless I am comparing its performance with other investments. Never easy because of the wide differences in holding periods.

I don't see any point in conflating other investments with an HYP. Certainly not in counting ITs or funds as part of it.

TJH


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