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Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

dspp
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Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#378921

Postby dspp » January 20th, 2021, 1:54 pm

Given the linkage between transport & energy in the investment arena I figure it might be worth noting stuff as it comes up.

"The resurrection of a 1960s network of direct rail routes between major European capitals known as the Trans Europe Express is key to achieving carbon neutrality in the EU by 2050, according to a report funded by the German government."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... neutrality

- dspp

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#379013

Postby supremetwo » January 20th, 2021, 5:25 pm

I see no sense in building any new rail network that is unable to transport shipping containers.

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#379053

Postby Alaric » January 20th, 2021, 7:03 pm

supremetwo wrote:I see no sense in building any new rail network that is unable to transport shipping containers.


I don't think there's an intent to do much if any new build, rather to reinstate what there used to be. Direct fast services by rail between capitals and major centres lost out to the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet, the idea being to reinstate them.

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#379064

Postby supremetwo » January 20th, 2021, 7:22 pm

Alaric wrote:
supremetwo wrote:I see no sense in building any new rail network that is unable to transport shipping containers.


I don't think there's an intent to do much if any new build, rather to reinstate what there used to be. Direct fast services by rail between capitals and major centres lost out to the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet, the idea being to reinstate them.

China has built a freight network to Europe that is capable of carrying containers.

ISTR that the channel tunnel plans originally had a container yard.

In my youth, much freight came by rail to the station at the end of the road - then distributed locally by electric vehicles.

Image

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#379068

Postby Fingers » January 20th, 2021, 7:47 pm

The photo is of a Scammell Scarab, some were petrol. some diesel but none of them were electric

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#379094

Postby supremetwo » January 20th, 2021, 9:21 pm

Fingers wrote:The photo is of a Scammell Scarab, some were petrol. some diesel but none of them were electric

Apology that that I did not check the maker's specifications but the 3-wheeled ones that I remember were similarly-shaped and were electric.

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#379576

Postby dspp » January 22nd, 2021, 11:13 am

Inside the Nissan Sunderland announcement today (https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ssan-chief) were some helpful numbers,

"That [Nissan 62kWh Leaf] model is dependent on imports of valuable batteries with a capacity of 62 kilowatt-hours [kWh] imported from the US. However, Nissan has agreed a deal with its battery partner, Envision AESC, to produce the 62kWh battery in a plant next-door to Nissan’s factory. The Sunderland battery plant, which currently makes batteries with 40kWh capacity, was owned by Nissan until 2019, and supplies Nissan Sunderland exclusively.

The switch of spending from Asia to the UK will probably result in extra jobs in Sunderland, although Gupta said it was not possible to say how many at this stage. He also declined to detail the amount of new investment the plant would require, but said it would be possible to complete it before the end of this year. The Envision plant, whose annual battery output is about 1.9 Gigawatt hours [GWh], is considered to be relatively small compared with other automotive battery factories."


I reckon that Nissan/Renault/Mitsubishi are currently using about 7-8 GWh/yr of batteries, which is about 9% share of total BEV+PHEV global use. So the Envision Sunderland plant is currently about 1/3 of that which suggests that the N/R/M alliance is still (net) importing as Europe is more than 1/3 of their BEV+PHEV market. I reckon they do ~220k cars/yr at present.

Expect to see a large wodge of taxpayer pork heading north !

regards, dspp

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#390171

Postby dspp » February 26th, 2021, 9:28 am

"SUVs and extra traffic cancelling out electric car gains in Britain
Auditors say emissions down just 1% since 2011 and target of zero emissions by 2050 is a long way off
Carbon emissions from passenger cars across Britain have fallen by just 1% since 2011, despite a steep rise in the sale of electric and hybrid vehicles, Whitehall’s spending watchdog has said. The National Audit Office said the popularity of sports utility vehicles (SUVs) and an increase in road traffic were among factors that have cancelled out expected reductions from low-emission car sales."


etc

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... in-britain

- dspp

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#391058

Postby dspp » March 1st, 2021, 9:04 am

A good example of what it takes to increase rail freight capacity and passenger capacity on UK rail networks - a consistent grind of difficult & expensive projects like this

Future of Rail | Completing the UK’s first curved box jack
Driving the UK’s first curved box jack for a new rail dive under has just been completed on the East Coast Main Line. Freight trains will be the first to benefit from major engineering work at Werrington just north of Peterborough on the East Coast Main Line (ECML) when work finishes in November. Capacity benefits for passenger traffic will be realised when the next timetable change comes into force in May next year, but the effect is expected to be significant. The Werrington project passed a major milestone earlier this year when the construction team completed the UK’s first curved box jack. This was part of work to create a dive under which will carry freight traffic below the ECML lines.
- etc, https://www.newcivilengineer.com/the-fu ... 20November.

Hence the additional requirement to further disentangle high speed rail to create even more UK passenger capacity. It will be interesting to see if the USA ever sets off down the high speed rail pathway.

regards, dspp

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#391078

Postby dspp » March 1st, 2021, 9:58 am

Useful article & report

Fossil fuel cars make 'hundreds of times' more waste than electric cars
Analysis by transport group says battery electric vehicles are superior to their petrol and diesel counterparts

"Fossil fuel cars waste hundreds of times more raw material than their battery electric equivalents, according to a study that adds to evidence that the move away from petrol and diesel cars will bring large net environmental benefits. Only about 30kg of raw material will be lost over the lifecycle of a lithium ion battery used in electric cars once recycling is taken into account, compared with 17,000 litres of oil, according to analysis by Transport & Environment (T&E) seen by the Guardian. A calculation of the resources used to make cars relative to their weight shows it is at least 300 times greater for oil-fuelled cars. The campaign group said battery electric vehicles were superior to their petrol and diesel counterparts across raw material demand, energy efficiency or cost – as well as eliminating exhaust emissions of carbon dioxide and other harmful gases.

The accelerating move to electric vehicles will entail environmental costs. Higher battery production will require more mining of minerals such as lithium, cobalt and nickel. However, T&E argued that the cost of oil extraction for fuel represents a much greater environmental toll. The report pointed to a “double standard” used when assessing the relative merits of electric and fossil fuel vehicles, which takes the use of oil for granted. “When it comes to raw materials there is simply no comparison,” said Lucien Mathieu, a transport analyst at T&E and an author of the report. “Over its lifetime, an average fossil-fuel car burns the equivalent of a stack of oil barrels 25 storeys high. If you take into account the recycling of battery materials, only around 30kg of metals would be lost – roughly the size of a football.”"


https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ctric-cars

I think it takes about 20-years to build out the bulk of the required transport & stationary storage, and given the recycling figures that is essentially a one-time resource hit. In contrast to the endless resource extraction for fossil fuels.

regards, dspp

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#391127

Postby PeterGray » March 1st, 2021, 12:14 pm

Interesting regarding battery mining requirements and recycling.

However, if you are including lifetime oil use you also need to include any environmental impact of generation and distribution of the electricity. If that ultimately all comes from renewables, which isn't currently the case, then the emissions and resource savings are clear. But there will still be significant resource use in manufacturing, maintaining and replacing turbines, solar panels and distribution networks. I've no doubt BEV's will still end up on top, but headline quote is perhaps a bit misleading.

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#391681

Postby 88V8 » March 2nd, 2021, 10:21 pm

Imagine if every make of car used different petrol.
Not great.
Rather like BEVs with their batteries.

Now, swappable batteries. Swappable between different makes. Honda, Yamaha, Piaggio, KTM.

Yes, makes of motorbike. Small motorbikes. And so far it's just words. But it's a start.
https://hondanews.eu/gb/en/motorcycles/ ... ndanews.eu

V8

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#394449

Postby 88V8 » March 10th, 2021, 10:58 pm

So the demented BoJo disgracefully plans to reduce APD on domestic flights to encourage more unnecessary travel... what happened to the brave new world of Zoom... And this linked to the notion that we will soon be using 'sustainable' jet fuel.
'Backed by British Airways and Shell, the Altalto Immingham scheme will convert hundreds of thousands of tonnes of domestic ‘black bin bag’ waste into jet fuel, at a site in Stallingborough - close to the UK’s largest port and two oil refineries - where a direct pipeline to Heathrow is operated from.'

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economi ... o-18421940

An example of how far we are from real jet zero:
'The full-size two-seat Phoenix is also already being built, with a reveal scheduled for July. It should fly on gaseous hydrogen by summer 2022, and the first full-scale liquid hydrogen flight is planned for 2024. Both the prototype and the full-size Phoenix stand to set all kinds of records, but the project is also focused on advancing hydrogen aviation by working with certification boards to develop a framework within which a liquid hydrogen aircraft can be certified, identifying risks related to liquid hydrogen aviation'

This, mark you, is not a passenger jet, it's a reworked two-seat glider.
https://newatlas.com/aircraft/aerodelft ... -aircraft/

Build build build BoJo, planetary destroyer.

V8

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#394503

Postby Nimrod103 » March 11th, 2021, 8:55 am

88V8 wrote:So the demented BoJo disgracefully plans to reduce APD on domestic flights to encourage more unnecessary travel... what happened to the brave new world of Zoom... And this linked to the notion that we will soon be using 'sustainable' jet fuel.
'Backed by British Airways and Shell, the Altalto Immingham scheme will convert hundreds of thousands of tonnes of domestic ‘black bin bag’ waste into jet fuel, at a site in Stallingborough - close to the UK’s largest port and two oil refineries - where a direct pipeline to Heathrow is operated from.'

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economi ... o-18421940

An example of how far we are from real jet zero:
'The full-size two-seat Phoenix is also already being built, with a reveal scheduled for July. It should fly on gaseous hydrogen by summer 2022, and the first full-scale liquid hydrogen flight is planned for 2024. Both the prototype and the full-size Phoenix stand to set all kinds of records, but the project is also focused on advancing hydrogen aviation by working with certification boards to develop a framework within which a liquid hydrogen aircraft can be certified, identifying risks related to liquid hydrogen aviation'

This, mark you, is not a passenger jet, it's a reworked two-seat glider.
https://newatlas.com/aircraft/aerodelft ... -aircraft/

Build build build BoJo, planetary destroyer.

V8


All those ferries to the Scottish islands are subsidised to the hilt, on the grounds of social good. So why should air connections to distant parts of the UK be heavily taxed? Lowering APD will keep the parts of the UK better connected.

Otherwise we will end up with links being as expensive as the Isle of Wight ferries, which some believe to be the most expensive tickets per mile in the World.

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#394522

Postby dspp » March 11th, 2021, 9:44 am

Nimrod103 wrote:
88V8 wrote:So the demented BoJo disgracefully plans to reduce APD on domestic flights to encourage more unnecessary travel... what happened to the brave new world of Zoom... And this linked to the notion that we will soon be using 'sustainable' jet fuel.
'Backed by British Airways and Shell, the Altalto Immingham scheme will convert hundreds of thousands of tonnes of domestic ‘black bin bag’ waste into jet fuel, at a site in Stallingborough - close to the UK’s largest port and two oil refineries - where a direct pipeline to Heathrow is operated from.'

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economi ... o-18421940

An example of how far we are from real jet zero:
'The full-size two-seat Phoenix is also already being built, with a reveal scheduled for July. It should fly on gaseous hydrogen by summer 2022, and the first full-scale liquid hydrogen flight is planned for 2024. Both the prototype and the full-size Phoenix stand to set all kinds of records, but the project is also focused on advancing hydrogen aviation by working with certification boards to develop a framework within which a liquid hydrogen aircraft can be certified, identifying risks related to liquid hydrogen aviation'

This, mark you, is not a passenger jet, it's a reworked two-seat glider.
https://newatlas.com/aircraft/aerodelft ... -aircraft/

Build build build BoJo, planetary destroyer.

V8


All those ferries to the Scottish islands are subsidised to the hilt, on the grounds of social good. So why should air connections to distant parts of the UK be heavily taxed? Lowering APD will keep the parts of the UK better connected.

Otherwise we will end up with links being as expensive as the Isle of Wight ferries, which some believe to be the most expensive tickets per mile in the World.


As you will know, those planes to Scottish island are equally heavily subsidised. Furthermore on most of the flights I take about half of the passengers are travelling on some form of state service. No, keep the APD. Indeed raise it by a heck of a lot.

regards, dspp

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#394773

Postby AJC5001 » March 11th, 2021, 10:47 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:Otherwise we will end up with links being as expensive as the Isle of Wight ferries, which some believe to be the most expensive tickets per mile in the World.


Now THERE's a possibility for a new bridge or tunnel - Portsmouth to Ryde. :)

Adrian

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#394793

Postby Nimrod103 » March 12th, 2021, 3:35 am

AJC5001 wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:Otherwise we will end up with links being as expensive as the Isle of Wight ferries, which some believe to be the most expensive tickets per mile in the World.


Now THERE's a possibility for a new bridge or tunnel - Portsmouth to Ryde. :)

Adrian

There was a plan in Victorian times to tunnel from Lymington to Yarmouth. Luckily for the red squirrels, it was never built.

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#394955

Postby dspp » March 12th, 2021, 3:04 pm

"Shipping groups press EU to advance marine 'fuels of future'
By Jonathan Saul
LONDON (Reuters) - Shipping and trade groups are calling on the European Union to advance the development of ammonia and green hydrogen as the best marine fuel options to enable the industry to accelerate decarbonisation."


etc

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ship ... SKBN2B31P9

- dspp

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#395703

Postby dspp » March 15th, 2021, 11:22 am

"Britain’s biggest car manufacturers lobbied the government to delay a ban on petrol and diesel cars by warning that sales would plunge and jobs would be at risk from accelerating the transition to electric vehicles, the Guardian can reveal. The government announced in November that it would move forward a ban on the sale of pure internal combustion engine cars from 2040 to 2030, but said that it would allow the sale of hybrid vehicles until 2035, in a significant victory for the car industry. Carmakers including BMW, Ford, Honda, Jaguar Land Rover and McLaren argued strongly against a ban earlier than 2040, in written submissions to the government obtained by the Guardian. They also said plug-in hybrid cars should be exempted from the earlier deadline. Some of the claims made by the firms contradicted findings by environmental campaigners."

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... iesel-cars

"BMW, which also owns Mini and Rolls-Royce factories in the UK, said there was “no scientific evidence to support such ambitious market uptake in the UK” for the previous 2040 ban, let alone an earlier date. A BMW spokesman said the claim related to modelling of consumer demand for electric cars."

No evidence except that the speed of Norwegian adoption has been faster than this.

- dspp

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Re: Transportation matters (re energy investment etc)

#395734

Postby PeterGray » March 15th, 2021, 12:36 pm

"BMW, which also owns Mini and Rolls-Royce factories in the UK, said there was “no scientific evidence to support such ambitious market uptake in the UK” for the previous 2040 ban, let alone an earlier date. A BMW spokesman said the claim related to modelling of consumer demand for electric cars."

That seems like a fairly absurd statement. I'd expect a ban on the sale of ICE cars to have a fairly significant impact on consumer demand for electric cars!


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