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Nuclear matters

dspp
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Re: Nuclear matters

#218779

Postby dspp » May 1st, 2019, 6:06 pm

scotia wrote:
TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:. I'm pretty sure that at times, when we've had very serious gales they used to shut them down. I'm not sure whether they still do, but when they do, I assume it's done out for safety considerations.

Yes - above a certain wind speed the wind turbines cease generating. Some years ago I was shown a graph of actual wind power generation versus time (in Scotland) on a very windy day. As the wind increased, so did the wind power generation, then suddenly the wind power generation plunged to near zero as the wind speed reached a critical level. In such a circumstance there is a need to plan ahead (on the basis of forecasts) to quickly bring on alternative power generators. This has become increasingly difficult with the closure of so many fossil fuelled power stations. In Scotland, I think that Peterhead is the last such power station. As mentioned in earlier posts, Nuclear Power Stations run continuously at a fixed level, so cannot help, however conventional and pumped storage hydro can help, although only slightly if there is a country-wide shut down of wind generation (for wind speeds above 50mph).
This loss of traditional fossil fuelled power stations has also created a problem if a black start is required. A black start assumes a catastrophic failure of the entire power system, and the need to start it up from zero power generation. The UK system would be split into areas, and there have been some estimates that suggest it could take up to 5 days to see the Scottish Area return to normal.


More modern turbines are getting better at controlling output without needing to shut down completely during very high wind events. And getting better at restarting without intervention following them. That is one of the things that is yielding the higher capacity factors we are seeing from modern wind farms.

Also the centre of stormy high wind events tends to be more localised than the geographic spread of low wind events. So only the most exposed turbines get shut down in high winds, not every turbine in the UK (or wherever). In contrast a low wind event can cover a very large amount of the UK, and of course the mid-winter high is the most problematic from a macro/grid perspective as that is when demand is highest, and solar PV negligible.

Bear in mind that storm/high wind events can also cause loss of conventional sources. Either through loss of grid connectivity (power lines down); or power station outages; or fuel supply outages. Nothing is perfect.

regards, dspp

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Re: Nuclear matters

#226263

Postby dspp » June 2nd, 2019, 2:58 pm

"Unit 2 of the Taishan nuclear power plant in China's Guangdong province has attained a sustained chain reaction for the first time, becoming the second EPR reactor to reach the commissioning milestone after Taishan 1."

"Construction of unit 1 of the Taishan plant started in 2009, followed by that of unit 2 in 2010. These two units are the third and fourth EPR units under construction globally, after the Olkiluoto 3 project in Finland and the Flamanville 3 project in France. The EPR design adopted in Taishan was developed by Framatome. Two EPR units are also under construction at the Hinkley Point C project in Somerset, UK."


http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Artic ... riticality

So the Chinese started in 3rd and 4th place, but came 1st and 2nd. Hmmmm ..........

- dspp

dspp
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Re: Nuclear matters

#256545

Postby dspp » October 8th, 2019, 10:44 am

Needy nuclear in free market USA
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=41534

In late July 2019, Ohio became the fifth state in the United States to enact policies that provide for compensation or other assistance for in-state nuclear generating plants. Connecticut, Illinois, New Jersey, and New York have implemented similar support programs for some of their nuclear power plants since 2017

- dspp

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Re: Nuclear matters

#336597

Postby dspp » August 28th, 2020, 1:37 pm

Oh goody, nuclear + molten salt storage, yummy

(Reuters) - A nuclear energy venture founded by Bill Gates said Thursday it hopes to build small advanced nuclear power stations that can store electricity to supplement grids increasingly supplied by intermittent sources like solar and wind power.
The 345-megawatt plants would be cooled by liquid sodium and cost about $1 billion each.
The new plants, however, are designed to complement a renewable power because they will store the reactor power in tanks of molten salt during days when the grid is well supplied. The nuclear power could be used later when solar and wind power are low due to weather conditions.
Molten salt power storage has been used at thermal solar plants in the past, but leaks have plagued some of the projects.
Gates had initially hoped to build an experimental nuclear plant near Beijing with state-owned China National Nuclear Corp. But last year, TerraPower was forced to seek new partners after the Trump administration restricted nuclear deals with China.


https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-usa-n ... KKBN25N2U8

- dspp

spasmodicus
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Re: Nuclear matters

#336629

Postby spasmodicus » August 28th, 2020, 3:55 pm

dspp wrote:Oh goody, nuclear + molten salt storage, yummy

(Reuters) - A nuclear energy venture founded by Bill Gates said Thursday it hopes to build small advanced nuclear power stations that can store electricity to supplement grids increasingly supplied by intermittent sources like solar and wind power.
The 345-megawatt plants would be cooled by liquid sodium and cost about $1 billion each.
The new plants, however, are designed to complement a renewable power because they will store the reactor power in tanks of molten salt during days when the grid is well supplied. The nuclear power could be used later when solar and wind power are low due to weather conditions.
Molten salt power storage has been used at thermal solar plants in the past, but leaks have plagued some of the projects.
Gates had initially hoped to build an experimental nuclear plant near Beijing with state-owned China National Nuclear Corp. But last year, TerraPower was forced to seek new partners after the Trump administration restricted nuclear deals with China.


https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-usa-n ... KKBN25N2U8

- dspp


I can't say that I've ever been a fan of nuclear power, but thorium based reactors seem a lot less bad than many other types. The pros and cons are discussed here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power

The reuters article states that the reactor coolant/working fluid is (liquid) sodium, but Bill Gates was also looking at a liquid sodium chloride based system. Liquid sodium is not very nice, and reacts violently when exposed to air or water. Unlike say hydrogen, which some would like us to adopt as a motor fuel and, stored at high pressure is only likely to explode when it leaks into the air.

https://www.businessinsider.com/bill-gates-terrapower-molten-salt-nuclear-reactor-2018-10?r=US&IR=T#:~:text=TerraPower%2C%20an%20energy%20company%20cofounded,more%20efficient%20than%20today's%20reactors.
it might make more sense to combine that with liquid sodium chloride storage? Either way it does seem scary, if the stuff is going to leak out. But then almost anything with the word "nuclear" in it nowadays can be used by journos to scare the public witless. Remember the perfectly innocuous Nuclear Magnetic Resonance NMR imaging, renamed to MRI because patients thought it might make them glow in the dark?

S

dspp
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Re: Nuclear matters

#340459

Postby dspp » September 15th, 2020, 4:30 pm

HITACHI confirms out
Plans for a £15-£20bn nuclear power plant in Wales have been scrapped.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-541 ... government.

https://www.reuters.com/article/britain ... SL8N2GC4FW

- dspp

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Re: Nuclear matters

#340466

Postby dspp » September 15th, 2020, 4:46 pm

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
dspp wrote:HITACHI confirms out
Plans for a £15-£20bn nuclear power plant in Wales have been scrapped.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-541 ... government.

https://www.reuters.com/article/britain ... SL8N2GC4FW

- dspp

Predictable. First, Toshiba pull out, now Hitachi. Question is, will EDF ever complete Hinkley C? I expect the mooted Sizewell and Bradwell stations are dead in the water too now.

RVF.


I suspect that anything significant that requires reliance on a UK Gov signature is now incurring the mother of all risk premiums. Brexit : the gift that keeps on giving diarrhea.

The real question now is how big a bribe will UK need to give someone to build a battery factory of the necessary scale in the UK. Because if the UK is going to be importing those batteries and cars and etc, the balance of payments is going to look seriously unhealthy.

regards, dspp

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Re: Nuclear matters

#366885

Postby supremetwo » December 16th, 2020, 10:49 pm

dspp wrote:The 20MW units are coming .......

"KNUD E. HANSEN has presented ATLAS C-Class, a new jack-up platform for the offshore wind sector, with a jacking deadweight of 18,000 tonnes, 6,800 square metres of cargo deck area, which features a 3,000-tonne, 37-metre crane.
According to the company, this is currently the only wind turbine installation vessel (WTIV) capable of carrying six 14-16 MW wind turbines, and at least five of the next generation 20+ MW turbines."

https://www.offshorewind.biz/2020/12/15 ... 2020-12-16

The German/Dutch/Danish offshore wind hubs/island are coming ....... (there have been various other announcements recently)

"Denmark plans to build two energy hubs in 2030 with a combined minimum capacity of 5 GW. In the long term, the plan is to establish energy hubs with a total capacity of 12 GW of offshore wind energy in the North Sea and Baltic Sea."
https://www.offshorewind.biz/2020/12/15 ... 2020-12-16

- dspp

Do you know anything about the cost aspects of these Rolls-Royce mini-nuclear systems for use as backups for no wind?

https://www.rolls-royce.com/products-an ... me-updates

dspp
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Re: Nuclear matters

#366939

Postby dspp » December 17th, 2020, 9:42 am

supremetwo wrote:
dspp wrote:The 20MW units are coming .......

"KNUD E. HANSEN has presented ATLAS C-Class, a new jack-up platform for the offshore wind sector, with a jacking deadweight of 18,000 tonnes, 6,800 square metres of cargo deck area, which features a 3,000-tonne, 37-metre crane.
According to the company, this is currently the only wind turbine installation vessel (WTIV) capable of carrying six 14-16 MW wind turbines, and at least five of the next generation 20+ MW turbines."

https://www.offshorewind.biz/2020/12/15 ... 2020-12-16

The German/Dutch/Danish offshore wind hubs/island are coming ....... (there have been various other announcements recently)

"Denmark plans to build two energy hubs in 2030 with a combined minimum capacity of 5 GW. In the long term, the plan is to establish energy hubs with a total capacity of 12 GW of offshore wind energy in the North Sea and Baltic Sea."
https://www.offshorewind.biz/2020/12/15 ... 2020-12-16

- dspp

Do you know anything about the cost aspects of these Rolls-Royce mini-nuclear systems for use as backups for no wind?

https://www.rolls-royce.com/products-an ... me-updates


I don't know anything specific right now, but the underlying issues cause me to think that they cannot be economic vs the alternatives. I have thought that about the whole small modular reactor story since the late 90s when it was a fashionable way of RR etc showing politicians that they (the reactor builders) had a way out of the cul-de-sac that they were in, and therefore should continue to be the recipient of large amounts of pork. That storytale has continued to this present day, even as the cost of alternatives has come down. Therefore, to be honest, I seldom spend time digging through the fantasy land of nuclear costings. Batteries at the cost and scale that are already shipping (because Tesla have said they have been making 4680s and have vehicles running with them for almost a year now) leave no space for nuclear, large or small. Unless of course that nuclear does other things, including attracting pork, guaranteeing votes, or providing retirement jobs for SSN and SSBN staff ........

regards, dspp

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Re: Nuclear matters

#367092

Postby dspp » December 17th, 2020, 6:11 pm

supremetwo wrote:
dspp wrote:The 20MW units are coming .......

"KNUD E. HANSEN has presented ATLAS C-Class, a new jack-up platform for the offshore wind sector, with a jacking deadweight of 18,000 tonnes, 6,800 square metres of cargo deck area, which features a 3,000-tonne, 37-metre crane.
According to the company, this is currently the only wind turbine installation vessel (WTIV) capable of carrying six 14-16 MW wind turbines, and at least five of the next generation 20+ MW turbines."

https://www.offshorewind.biz/2020/12/15 ... 2020-12-16

The German/Dutch/Danish offshore wind hubs/island are coming ....... (there have been various other announcements recently)

"Denmark plans to build two energy hubs in 2030 with a combined minimum capacity of 5 GW. In the long term, the plan is to establish energy hubs with a total capacity of 12 GW of offshore wind energy in the North Sea and Baltic Sea."
https://www.offshorewind.biz/2020/12/15 ... 2020-12-16

- dspp

Do you know anything about the cost aspects of these Rolls-Royce mini-nuclear systems for use as backups for no wind?

https://www.rolls-royce.com/products-an ... me-updates


and on cue, add three design concepts together:
- small modular nuclear;
- molten salt reactors;
- barge-basing;
et voila !

Floating barges fitted with advanced nuclear reactors could begin powering developing nations by the mid-2020s, according to a Danish startup company.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ys-startup

(I have relocated the last few posts from wind to nuclear)

regards, dspp

dspp
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Re: Nuclear matters

#389437

Postby dspp » February 24th, 2021, 9:44 am

Where are we with the safer nuclear option known as nuclear fusion?
- a nothing burger, quite appropriate really
https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/bl ... 2021-02-24
- dspp

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Re: Nuclear matters

#390739

Postby 88V8 » February 27th, 2021, 11:06 pm

dspp wrote:Where are we with the safer nuclear option known as nuclear fusion?
- a nothing burger, quite appropriate really.

More puff here https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25991/bring ... he-us-grid chasing 'green' investment.

Commentary on yet another mooted pilot plant https://newatlas.com/energy/fusion-report-2021/ Nearly every component of a potential plant, says the report, will require significant materials development to cope with the extreme environments expected inside fusion reactors

I was involved in the 80s, insuring one of the components of the JET project.
Forty years on, with wind and batteries, it begins to look a bit pointless.

V8


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