Do SIPPS include free life insurance?

[Dod101]

HI PD.

Yes I read the threads by Chrysalis and found them very helpful. They do not though help clarifyy the position that Snorvey is commenting on and I have no idea how the Trustees would act. I would be surprised though if they do much more than take the Letter of Wishes at face value. They surely do not want to have to judge every situation, in fact I cannot believe that they would. We are after all talking about managers of a platform not anyone particularly qualified to act as judge and jury.

Dod

[swill453]

And who would be paying for the trustees to do all this investigation? I don't pay AJBell very much to hold my SIPP, other platforms can charge even less.

Scott.

[PinkDalek]

[I would be surprised though if they do much more than take the Letter of Wishes at face value. ...

That's not how I read the Allen & Overy summary, including but not limited to:

... Any expression of wishes should be checked against the member’s will (if there is one). The date of the statement is also relevant. If the nomination was made a long time ago, it will be necessary to investigate whether there has since been a change in the member’s circumstances – for example, a separation, a divorce or remarriage, the birth of a child, a death in the family or a change in the financial position of the nominated beneficiary. ...

[Bouleversee]

I did read all of the first case which was very well written but the flaw in the Ombudsman' s argument would seem to be that although the letter of wishes was written well before the marriage of the deceased, it had been pinned to the will she subsequently made prior to the marriage which suggests that she had made the will with the assumption that the pension would still be paid according to the letter, especially as the will cannot dictate what happens to the pension. Had she not thought this, it is likely that she would have left a significant sum in her will to her mother and stepfather. I see no logical reason why a new husband, where there were no children, should be entitled to the pension, against her expressed wishes as well as the items listed in her will. My feeling is that she had calculated the needs and deserts of all three and would have made appropriate adjustments to both letter and will as the years went by had she lived and her marriage survived. I wonder what advice her solicitor gave her when drawing up the will.

It reminded me of a run-in I had with the Ombudsman on my husband's behalf over his pension at the time of the Equitable Life debacle. I'll spare you the details but suffice it to say that having been given a negative decision initially, I battled on and won the case which is why I have been left with an annuity (2/3 of a very good rate) rather than a pension. No point in trying to calculate whether it might have been a pyrrhic victory.

[mc2fool]

Trustees will always look for an existing will and also to protect a spouse and young children first.

Really? I would have expected that if there was an Expression of Wishes, and nobody was disputing it, then they would have no reason even to want to see a will.

The second case, "Mrs D", in Chrysalis's second link, the .pdf, is exactly one of the trustees overriding the wish, nominating Mrs D, in preference of an (unsigned) will leaving ‘proceeds from private pensions’ to Miss Y. Mrs D complained and the ombudsman found "that insufficient inquiries had been made of Mrs D and Miss Y to determine the extent of their dependency before deciding how to distribute the benefits" and told the administrator to "make a new decision". The document doesn't say what that was.

The curious one for me is the case of "Dr G", where "Mr T had completed an expression of wishes form which nominated himself only" with "the value being paid to Mr T’s estate". Didn't know you could do that and seems a roundabout way of doing things anyway...!

[Dod101]

[I would be surprised though if they do much more than take the Letter of Wishes at face value. ...

That's not how I read the Allen & Overy summary, including but not limited to:

... Any expression of wishes should be checked against the member’s will (if there is one). The date of the statement is also relevant. If the nomination was made a long time ago, it will be necessary to investigate whether there has since been a change in the member’s circumstances – for example, a separation, a divorce or remarriage, the birth of a child, a death in the family or a change in the financial position of the nominated beneficiary. ...

I should think in the majority of cases the trustees/administrators will take the Letter of Wishes at face value and leave it to any aggrieved party to complain if they like. I cannot see them following the comments by Allen & Overy in every case. If they do then the costs of administering our SIPPs are going to rise even further.

This is now though a mile from the OP's question. It is also a good reason for someone with a mind like mine to use the assets in a SIPP whilst in life and good health.

Dod

[scrumpyjack]

These days with most providers you can change your expression of wishes on line instantly (at least with HL and Std Life). In my EOWs I have also written why I have given the 'wishes' I have expressed.

In one difficult executorship, Standard Life told me their decision on what to do with the fund had been arrived at after taking legal advice, so they don't always just rubber stamp things.