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End of Life admin

including wills and probate
yorkshirelad1
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Re: End of Life admin

#397641

Postby yorkshirelad1 » March 21st, 2021, 12:43 pm

AJC5001 wrote:Unfortunately Which haven't published that (or any other) book for a few years now. Your link just goes to information on their website.
Adrian

+1

Which don't seem to have published any of the books that they used to (I presume it's not trendy, not an "app"). Amonsgt others, Which published a couple of very good (IMHO) books "What to do when someone dies" and "How to sell a house" (titles paraphrased). For the benefit of others, I note below the details of mine should anyone else be interested and might be able to find copies second hand etc

  • What to do when someone dies; edition date 2012, purchased March 2013 ISBN 978-1-84490-127-2
  • Buy, sell & move house; edition date Sept 2010; purchased Nov 2010 ISBN 978-1-84490-108-1
Yes, they're now 10+ years old, and as long as you're aware of the changes in legislation etc, they provide some sound and sensible advice.

Clitheroekid
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Re: End of Life admin

#397743

Postby Clitheroekid » March 21st, 2021, 8:12 pm

ten0rman wrote:One point which I haven't seen mentioned was that when my brother registered the first death, the registrar made the point that if the institutions required a death certificate, then it was possible, and here he mentioned one particular institution, that an original certificate would not be returned. The registrar then suggested that we obtain 10 copies of the death certificate on the grounds that it was considerably cheaper to obtain them on the initial application.

That was OK when death certificates just cost a couple of quid, but now they're £11 each that's over £100.

If you know a friendly solicitor he can make you `certified copies'. There are just photocopies of the death certificate on which he has stamped a certificate to the effect that it's a true copy of the original. These will generally be accepted by banks, insurance companies etc in lieu of the original certificates.

yorkshirelad1
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Re: End of Life admin

#397905

Postby yorkshirelad1 » March 22nd, 2021, 11:29 am

Clitheroekid wrote:
ten0rman wrote:One point which I haven't seen mentioned was that when my brother registered the first death, the registrar made the point that if the institutions required a death certificate, then it was possible, and here he mentioned one particular institution, that an original certificate would not be returned. The registrar then suggested that we obtain 10 copies of the death certificate on the grounds that it was considerably cheaper to obtain them on the initial application.

That was OK when death certificates just cost a couple of quid, but now they're £11 each that's over £100.

If you know a friendly solicitor he can make you `certified copies'. There are just photocopies of the death certificate on which he has stamped a certificate to the effect that it's a true copy of the original. These will generally be accepted by banks, insurance companies etc in lieu of the original certificates.


This is useful information and suggestion.

In this day and age (the 21st century, and the age of covid when sending bits of paper round to notify of death is not ideal), there ought to be some sort of central database where insurance companies, utility companies, local authorities, DVLA, banks etc can be given a code, and check the death certificate details centrally for themselves (similar to the DVLA code to give to car hire companies), and probably have better information and levels of checking. In many cases, the historic practice of sending a piece of paper to many institutions (and not getting it back, and or having to get several copies to do this in parallel to save time) is due for a rethink. Death certificates must surely be centralised? ideally, the exors or person dealing with matters can send an email to e.g. the insurance company with a generated code. The insurance company (as a already accedited, checked and cleared member of such a scheme) would be able to check the death certificate details against the policy and start the process. Yes, an insurance company may also require exor wet signatures, but at least it save the paperchase of multiple death certificates. If the government can produce the TellUsOnce service (which works quite well IME) and death notification service seems to be gaining some traction, why isn't there an online checking service for death certificates. Add it on to the TellUsOnce service and use the DVLA licence check code model.

For info of those interested who aren't already familiar

UncleEbenezer
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Re: End of Life admin

#397933

Postby UncleEbenezer » March 22nd, 2021, 12:24 pm

Clitheroekid wrote:
ten0rman wrote:One point which I haven't seen mentioned was that when my brother registered the first death, the registrar made the point that if the institutions required a death certificate, then it was possible, and here he mentioned one particular institution, that an original certificate would not be returned. The registrar then suggested that we obtain 10 copies of the death certificate on the grounds that it was considerably cheaper to obtain them on the initial application.

That was OK when death certificates just cost a couple of quid, but now they're £11 each that's over £100.

If you know a friendly solicitor he can make you `certified copies'. There are just photocopies of the death certificate on which he has stamped a certificate to the effect that it's a true copy of the original. These will generally be accepted by banks, insurance companies etc in lieu of the original certificates.

Last time I needed a solicitor to certify a copy of something was 2007. It cost £45.

Clitheroekid
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Re: End of Life admin

#398137

Postby Clitheroekid » March 23rd, 2021, 12:23 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:Last time I needed a solicitor to certify a copy of something was 2007. It cost £45.

I did specify a friendly solicitor! ;)

9873210
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Re: End of Life admin

#398143

Postby 9873210 » March 23rd, 2021, 2:19 am

Push back against people who ask for a death certificate. A huge number of places ask for one but don't actually need one, or at the very least you get no benefit from giving them one, so it's not your problem.

If you're dealing with somebody in person and they ask "Can I keep this?" just say "No." And don't let it out of your sight. Every place I dealt with got by with inspecting the original, making a photocopy and stamping and signing the copy. They only want your original to save themselves 30 seconds of work. Lazy SOBs.

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Re: End of Life admin

#398225

Postby Watis » March 23rd, 2021, 10:32 am

9873210 wrote:Push back against people who ask for a death certificate. A huge number of places ask for one but don't actually need one, or at the very least you get no benefit from giving them one, so it's not your problem.

If you're dealing with somebody in person and they ask "Can I keep this?" just say "No." And don't let it out of your sight. Every place I dealt with got by with inspecting the original, making a photocopy and stamping and signing the copy. They only want your original to save themselves 30 seconds of work. Lazy SOBs.


In my recent experience as an executor, the information that the various financial institutions required varied enormously.

The best was a bank that was able to use the fact that I also had an account with them as proof of ID. It took just one phone call! They asked for the serial number of the death certificate and were able to look it up online. I must have had to upload a copy of the probate certificate too. Three days later, the balance had been transferred!

Other institutions required various levels of proof of ID, one involving two proofs of ID being signed by a 'professional', together with their name, address and phone number and a statement that they attested that the copy they were signing was a true copy of the original.

All the others needed the death certificate being sent to them, and these were returned. But, if one bank can access an online record, why can't they all?

Phoning the bereavement lines for banks does seem to get your call answered more quickly than the usual contact numbers. After that the call proceeds as normal, except that the agent will say 'sorry for your loss' during the call.

Watis

Parky
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Re: End of Life admin

#398259

Postby Parky » March 23rd, 2021, 11:42 am

Clitheroekid wrote:I did specify a friendly solicitor! ;)


I think you are the only one left :D

melonfool
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Re: End of Life admin

#402361

Postby melonfool » April 7th, 2021, 4:39 pm

My mum was advised to get 'at least 10' death certificates. We did a quick tot up and actually decided on 8.

It's annoying that they cannot provide any sort of soft copy, but they apparently can't.

So, in the post you get 8 death certificates at great cost and then two things happen: 1) institutions* will only accept soft copies (you only need one to scan in!); 2) institutions that do need a hard copy, who are totally useless at everything else you ever deal with them for, manage to get the certificate back to you the day after you post it, so you can reuse it for the next thing you do.

*such institutions include the govt. The same govt who just refused to issue a soft copy.....its lucky mum did have a scanner but I bet a lot of people don't. In fact, she didn't know she did. It was only me saying 'of course your printer is also a scanner, look...' that made her realise, so if I had not been there she would have paid someone to scan it in!

Anyway, I reckon we didn't even use more three. But dad's affairs were reasonably limited, most things in joint names anyway, so only two banks and his pension needed it I think (and probate of course).

Mel

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Re: End of Life admin

#402393

Postby AF62 » April 7th, 2021, 6:17 pm

melonfool wrote:My mum was advised to get 'at least 10' death certificates. We did a quick tot up and actually decided on 8.

..

Anyway, I reckon we didn't even use more three. But dad's affairs were reasonably limited, most things in joint names anyway, so only two banks and his pension needed it I think (and probate of course).

Mel


When my father died last year I was faced with that question - I decided on three, and to be honest I could have got away with two (one in use and one in hand) since as with your father things were quite simple and everything in joint names.

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Re: End of Life admin

#402515

Postby DrFfybes » April 8th, 2021, 9:33 am

Watis wrote:In my recent experience as an executor, the information that the various financial institutions required varied enormously.

The best was a bank that was able to use the fact that I also had an account with them as proof of ID.
[...]
Other institutions required various levels of proof of ID, one involving two proofs of ID being signed by a 'professional', together with their name, address and phone number and a statement that they attested that the copy they were signing was a true copy of the original.
Watis


I would ask you to name and shame the difficult ones to deal with, but I will put good money on other people having had the opposite experience with the same institutions depending upon the individual they dealt with.

MrsF's parents died within a few days of each other - joint accounts were 'interesting' to deal with.

:(


Paul

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Re: End of Life admin

#402587

Postby AF62 » April 8th, 2021, 12:18 pm

DrFfybes wrote:
Watis wrote:In my recent experience as an executor, the information that the various financial institutions required varied enormously.

The best was a bank that was able to use the fact that I also had an account with them as proof of ID.
[...]
Other institutions required various levels of proof of ID, one involving two proofs of ID being signed by a 'professional', together with their name, address and phone number and a statement that they attested that the copy they were signing was a true copy of the original.
Watis


I would ask you to name and shame the difficult ones to deal with, but I will put good money on other people having had the opposite experience with the same institutions depending upon the individual they dealt with.

MrsF's parents died within a few days of each other - joint accounts were 'interesting' to deal with.

:(


Paul


I had to deal with Santander and Lloyds, both of whom I had received shockingly bad service personally from previously with my own accounts so I was slightly apprehensive, but with both the bereavement process was flawless and exceeded my expectations.

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Re: End of Life admin

#402700

Postby 9873210 » April 8th, 2021, 6:42 pm

AF62 wrote:I had to deal with Santander and Lloyds, both of whom I had received shockingly bad service personally from previously with my own accounts so I was slightly apprehensive, but with both the bereavement process was flawless and exceeded my expectations.


There is an art to managing expectations.

"Exceeds expectations" is one of my pet peeves in customers surveys. Many companies have shockingly bad customer service, but still exceed my expectations because they are too poorly organized to run an effective Ponzi scheme.

Quite a few times I answer questions as follows.
Was the website well organized? 0
Were you able to do what you came for? 0
Did we meet your expectations? 9

yorkshirelad1
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Re: End of Life admin

#402854

Postby yorkshirelad1 » April 9th, 2021, 11:09 am

DrFfybes wrote:I would ask you to name and shame the difficult ones to deal with, but I will put good money on other people having had the opposite experience with the same institutions depending upon the individual they dealt with.
MrsF's parents died within a few days of each other - joint accounts were 'interesting' to deal with.


I did my Mum's estate in 2014, so well clear of it now.

I would name and shame
  • Santander: it took me several goes to get probate valuations and "interest paid to date of death" on her 2 savings accounts (and twice putting "no interest paid" on the tax certificate when there was some).
    Even then, the figures were wrong. What horrifies me is that if a solicitor had done the tax form figures, they'd probably just have taken the nicely presented official looking certificate from Santander and put them straight on the probate and tax form without questioning them. It was only because I had intimate knowledge of the affairs that I knew the figures were wrong. I wonder how many times that happens ... an official looking form is trusted as being correct and never gets questioned.
  • we had a wake at a local pub/hotel. When my sister and I got the invoice (which no doubt sometimes goes to a solictor dealing with the estate and "just gets paid" out of the estate), it was somewhat larger than had been quoted for ....
  • Insurance company (London Life) paying out on a life insurance policy and forgetting that it was in trust, so outside the estate, no IHT
  • Insurance company (Aegon) paying out less than the documented death claim value on some flimsy pretext

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Re: End of Life admin

#402863

Postby scrumpyjack » April 9th, 2021, 11:39 am

Curiously extra copies of the probate certificate still only cost £1.50


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