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Missing transferee/joint tenant

including wills and probate
NomoneyNohoney
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Missing transferee/joint tenant

#473354

Postby NomoneyNohoney » January 15th, 2022, 6:14 pm

My wife and I are joint tenants of our property - I foolishly gifted her a half share a few years ago.

She has just seen the previous solicitor that prepared the TR1 documents etc, and told them that she wishes to re-gift it back to me. Unfortunately, she is becoming more contrary with each passing day, has now become erratic and unstable, and seems less and less inclined to go back to the solicitors and do the ID check, and - I assume - sign the completed TR1 form with me.

What happens if she disappears with no way of contacting her before we complete the changes? For example, even if I were to lose the extra half-share by not being able to rewind things, how could I sell the property without her approval and signature, if she's incommunicado? Just thinking ahead...

GoSeigen
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Re: Missing transferee/joint tenant

#473416

Postby GoSeigen » January 16th, 2022, 6:43 am

NomoneyNohoney wrote:My wife and I are joint tenants of our property - I foolishly gifted her a half share a few years ago.

She has just seen the previous solicitor that prepared the TR1 documents etc, and told them that she wishes to re-gift it back to me. Unfortunately, she is becoming more contrary with each passing day, has now become erratic and unstable, and seems less and less inclined to go back to the solicitors and do the ID check, and - I assume - sign the completed TR1 form with me.

What happens if she disappears with no way of contacting her before we complete the changes? For example, even if I were to lose the extra half-share by not being able to rewind things, how could I sell the property without her approval and signature, if she's incommunicado? Just thinking ahead...


It would probably depend on other circumstances, like is this transfer part of a divorce settlement or in satisfaction of a previous agreement, written or verbal (and the word gift implies not but I'm wondering why she'd be gifting it back to you in the first place, out of a sense of duty??)? Are you able to fill in any more of the relevant background?

GS

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Re: Missing transferee/joint tenant

#473434

Postby Mike4 » January 16th, 2022, 9:18 am

NomoneyNohoney wrote:My wife and I are joint tenants of our property - I foolishly gifted her a half share a few years ago.

She has just seen the previous solicitor that prepared the TR1 documents etc, and told them that she wishes to re-gift it back to me. Unfortunately, she is becoming more contrary with each passing day, has now become erratic and unstable, and seems less and less inclined to go back to the solicitors and do the ID check, and - I assume - sign the completed TR1 form with me.

What happens if she disappears with no way of contacting her before we complete the changes? For example, even if I were to lose the extra half-share by not being able to rewind things, how could I sell the property without her approval and signature, if she's incommunicado? Just thinking ahead...


Point of order.

I don't think a "half share" is what's at stake here, as you both own the whole asset jointly. For a half share to be at stake, you'd need to own it 50/50 as tenants in common. But I appreciate that only bears on your question tangentially.

Long ago I tried to buy a house owned jointly by a separating couple. They both agreed to sell the house then at the last minute, the bloke changed his mind and refused to sign the contract. He was just being awkward according to the EA but it spiked the deal. Some six months later the EA called me to tell me the wife had obtained some sort of court order which allowed the house to be sold against his will, the deal proceeded and I bought the house.

I'm wondering if something similar might be done by the court in the event of your wife ceasing to respond to communications. I can't remember if the couple in my anecdote were married or not.

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Re: Missing transferee/joint tenant

#473474

Postby NomoneyNohoney » January 16th, 2022, 12:00 pm

Thanks for the comments thus far. I guess what I wanted to know is, if one of the owners in a joint tenantship is out of contact, whereabouts unknown, what can happen if the other party wishes to sell the property? As to the background, it would be a re-gift as in, "I don't want anything from you." This is not divorce-mandated, it's just a difficult situation.

swill453
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Re: Missing transferee/joint tenant

#473509

Postby swill453 » January 16th, 2022, 1:05 pm

NomoneyNohoney wrote:Thanks for the comments thus far. I guess what I wanted to know is, if one of the owners in a joint tenantship is out of contact, whereabouts unknown, what can happen if the other party wishes to sell the property?

I'd think the simple answer, which you probably don't want to hear, is that your conveyancing solicitor will send you something that needs to be signed by both parties. And if and when that doesn't happen, the whole process will stall. Depending on where that is in the selling process, it may be exposing you to financial liabilities.

Progressing beyond that would probably require some kind of court order, as alluded above.

Scott.

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Re: Missing transferee/joint tenant

#473512

Postby Mike4 » January 16th, 2022, 1:12 pm

swill453 wrote:
NomoneyNohoney wrote:Thanks for the comments thus far. I guess what I wanted to know is, if one of the owners in a joint tenantship is out of contact, whereabouts unknown, what can happen if the other party wishes to sell the property?

I'd think the simple answer, which you probably don't want to hear, is that your conveyancing solicitor will send you something that needs to be signed by both parties. And if and when that doesn't happen, the whole process will stall. Depending on where that is in the selling process, it may be exposing you to financial liabilities.

Progressing beyond that would probably require some kind of court order, as alluded above.

Scott.


And a brief google turns up a solicitor's website which says the same. A court order is the way around the problem.

https://www.bonnetts.co.uk/2020/01/15/j ... -and-cons/

"Selling the property requires both parties. If you want to sell a property you’ve purchased as joint tenants, then the transfer needs to be signed by both people. If mutual consent to sell can’t be established, it may be necessary to obtain a court order. When the sale has gone through the proceeds from the sale will be split equally as both joint tenants have the same equal interest in the property."

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Re: Missing transferee/joint tenant

#473695

Postby stewamax » January 17th, 2022, 9:14 am

NomoneyNohoney wrote:Unfortunately, she is becoming more contrary with each passing day, has now become erratic and unstable

I assume that she is still of sufficiently sound mind and that you do not have a Finance LPA in place for her - in which case you may be able to sign on her part also as her LPA attorney

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Re: Missing transferee/joint tenant

#473811

Postby Clitheroekid » January 17th, 2022, 2:01 pm

NomoneyNohoney wrote:Unfortunately, she is becoming more contrary with each passing day, has now become erratic and unstable, and seems less and less inclined to go back to the solicitors and do the ID check, and - I assume - sign the completed TR1 form with me.

What happens if she disappears with no way of contacting her before we complete the changes? For example, even if I were to lose the extra half-share by not being able to rewind things, how could I sell the property without her approval and signature, if she's incommunicado? Just thinking ahead...

You don't really need a solicitor for such a simple transaction, and it may therefore be easier if you get the solicitor to send you the TR1 so you can ask her to sign it at home. This would avoid the need for her to go to the solicitor's office, though you'd still need an independent witness.

If she refuses to attend the solicitor's office to deal with the ID check you could instead get her to complete a Land Registry ID3 form - https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... vidual-id3 - and then register the transfer yourself.

But to answer your question directly you couldn't sell the property without her co-operation or a court order (or death!) and getting a court order would neither be straightforward nor a guaranteed outcome.


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