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False motor accident accusation

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Hypster
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522415

Postby Hypster » August 14th, 2022, 6:09 pm

Is there any news on the incident in the OP MaraMan?

pje16
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522423

Postby pje16 » August 14th, 2022, 6:43 pm

Lootman wrote:
pje16 wrote:I am not blindly following anything
you seem intent on defending driving through amber lights
may be your choice but not mine

Again, the topic here is how to avoid accidents. Slamming on your brakes when you are being tailgated increases the risk of an accident, even if it is not one you will be blamed for. It is a worse choice than the technical infraction of entering a junction on amber, which pretty much everyone does anyway.

But you drive how you want, no problem.

You said slamming on the brakes, I didn't did I
please debate within reason

stockton
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522437

Postby stockton » August 14th, 2022, 7:26 pm

Lootman wrote:B's fault, technically. But A could have avoided it by going through the junction as the lights changed instead of stopping. In my view A was being too careful and was not mindful of how many other drivers treat such situations.

I usually drive in Spain where running orange lights seems to be pretty risk-free. However I recently tried the same in Turkey, only to be confronted by four lanes of cars rushing to insert themselves between me and my destination.
Do not get into the habit of carelessly running orange lights.

Lootman
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522441

Postby Lootman » August 14th, 2022, 7:34 pm

stockton wrote:
Lootman wrote:B's fault, technically. But A could have avoided it by going through the junction as the lights changed instead of stopping. In my view A was being too careful and was not mindful of how many other drivers treat such situations.

I usually drive in Spain where running orange lights seems to be pretty risk-free. However I recently tried the same in Turkey, only to be confronted by four lanes of cars rushing to insert themselves between me and my destination.

Do not get into the habit of carelessly running orange lights.

Well, one should not carelessly do anything. :D

What I have noticed in the two countries that I have driven a lot in (UK and US) is that when I do cut things fine and go through on an amber (*), there is often one or even two vehicles who go through after me. And a danger does arise if one of those expects me to go through on amber and accelerates.

(*) Technically there is no amber light in the US between red and green. The sequence is red, red and amber, green, amber, red.

Arborbridge
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522444

Postby Arborbridge » August 14th, 2022, 7:49 pm

daveh wrote:I've had that exact accident. Lights went yellow, decided not to run the lights, braked and stopped at the stop line as the light went red. Hit from behind by the artic who was going to run the lights behind me. He'd have been going through on red, I ended up smashed into the middle of the junction. Police put the blame entirely on the artic. said he should always be able to stop as I might have had to brake for a pedestrian or other problem Infront of me, and he shouldn't have been so close that he couldn't stop without hitting me.


I sometimes think that drivers depend too much "on principle".. that is on the principle that everything will proceed normally. Don't we all do it to an extent, for example how many slow down sufficiently on bends? How many allow for a small but real chance that there is someone round that bend - a car broken down, a tractor pulling a hay cart, a woman with a pushchair, pedestrians out for a walk, a traction engine, cyclists... any number of legitimate road users could be hidden there - yet most of the world seems just to rush on, based only on the likelihood that the road will be empty. Until it isn't.

Arb.

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522468

Postby UncleEbenezer » August 14th, 2022, 10:44 pm

pje16 wrote:
Lootman wrote:B's fault, technically. But A could have avoided it by going through the junction as the lights changed instead of stopping. In my view A was being too careful and was not mindful of how many other drivers treat such situations.

"A" did the correct thing, an amber light precedes a red one and while it's legal to drive through amber lights but make sure you only do it when necessary
The fact that you have a t*at behind you is immaterial
https://www.bsm.co.uk/traffic-lights

Neither of them should've been in that situation in the first place.

THe primary fault lies with B. But A should have responded to having a tailgater. My most usual response would be to slow down gradually (not asking for trouble by applying the brakes) to a speed at which B's lack of distance was not a danger. And (in the extreme case) if that means walking speed, so be it.

Better still, on a bike one can just evade.

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522474

Postby Lootman » August 14th, 2022, 11:09 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:
pje16 wrote:
Lootman wrote:B's fault, technically. But A could have avoided it by going through the junction as the lights changed instead of stopping. In my view A was being too careful and was not mindful of how many other drivers treat such situations.

"A" did the correct thing, an amber light precedes a red one and while it's legal to drive through amber lights but make sure you only do it when necessary
The fact that you have a t*at behind you is immaterial
https://www.bsm.co.uk/traffic-lights

Neither of them should've been in that situation in the first place.

The primary fault lies with B. But A should have responded to having a tailgater. My most usual response would be to slow down gradually (not asking for trouble by applying the brakes) to a speed at which B's lack of distance was not a danger. And (in the extreme case) if that means walking speed, so be it.

Better still, on a bike one can just evade.

Tailgating is a real problem, which really isn't addressed by the highway code. To mitigate that risk you sometimes have to take evasive action. Personally I never brake for them, but evidently there are some here who believe that the rules say that you should.

As for bikes, I used to commute into central London on one in my youth. but I consider it to be far too dangerous to ride a bike in any urban area in the UK. Drivers are too insane and, for that matter, many cyclists are too.

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522476

Postby Mike4 » August 14th, 2022, 11:11 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:
pje16 wrote:
Lootman wrote:B's fault, technically. But A could have avoided it by going through the junction as the lights changed instead of stopping. In my view A was being too careful and was not mindful of how many other drivers treat such situations.

"A" did the correct thing, an amber light precedes a red one and while it's legal to drive through amber lights but make sure you only do it when necessary
The fact that you have a t*at behind you is immaterial
https://www.bsm.co.uk/traffic-lights

Neither of them should've been in that situation in the first place.

THe primary fault lies with B. But A should have responded to having a tailgater. My most usual response would be to slow down gradually (not asking for trouble by applying the brakes) to a speed at which B's lack of distance was not a danger. And (in the extreme case) if that means walking speed, so be it.

Better still, on a bike one can just evade.


Being a high mileage driver I get an aggressive tailgater once in a while (or occasionally someone who just passively drives really close). I deal with them by indicating left, slowing down and completely stopping. This forces them to pass me and then I wait perhaps 30 seconds for them to disappear, then I set off again. Works a charm.

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522733

Postby AndyPandy » August 15th, 2022, 10:19 pm

Dod101 wrote:
AndyPandy wrote:
MaraMan wrote:
PS - We have had a dashcam for a couple of years, since the time some a**ehole tried to brake test me in the fast lane of a dual carriageway and then run me off the road. I was very shaken up by the incident and realised I had no evidence if he had been successful. I recommend everyone has a dashcam fitted.


Absolutely 100%

I followed a car (at a distance) through a junction when the lights went green late one evening. Car coming from the other direction missed their red lights, went between us and I t-boned the passenger side. Driver claimed I jumped the lights and Front passenger lodged a Personal injury claim. Sent in the dashcam footage and within days they had admitted all liability. Saves so much hassle and joint liabilities etc. I had a witness behind me as well anyway, but the dashcam footage was rock-solid evidence.

I've had another no-fault crash since and one of the first things my insurer asked was to send in footage if I had it.


Are you then prone to accidents as a result of your dashcam or because of it?

Dod

Is that not the same question stated two ways?

I'm not aware of any causal relationship. Had a dashcam for years. I'm a high mileage driver based in the South East (M4 corridor). Clean licence and oodles of NCD. Just one of those coincidences. 2 accidents is not statistically significant in general and also in context of the miles I drive.

My father once had 4 accidents in a fortnight. All four times his car was stationary, twice he wasn't in it and once (the initial one) there was no-one in either car (iffy handbrake on OP car). In an infinite Universe anything is possible. I'm off to Milliways for lunch.

chas49
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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522883

Postby chas49 » August 16th, 2022, 3:50 pm

Moderator Message:
Several weeks and quite a few pages of posts ago I posted a warning about sticking to the topic ( viewtopic.php?p=518167#p518167 ). Even allowing for some latitude, this topic has really departed from the original Legal - Practical question, and seems have be turning into more of the discussion we see on the Current Affairs board.

Please stick to the original topic (or at least something closely related) and avoid arguments. (chas49)

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#522935

Postby GrahamPlatt » August 16th, 2022, 6:57 pm

This business of having a run of accidents: While insurers may look askance at the victim of a series of accidents which were not their fault, I’m sure they are well aware of the concept of clustering. https://www.statology.org/cluster-analy ... -examples/

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#523086

Postby didds » August 17th, 2022, 12:21 pm

daveh wrote:I've had that exact accident. Lights went yellow, decided not to run the lights, braked and stopped at the stop line as the light went red. Hit from behind by the artic who was going to run the lights behind me.


same happened to my son a few years ago in Bath. Lights were already red. Stopped to wait. After several more seconds was rear-ended.

didds

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#523459

Postby terminal7 » August 18th, 2022, 12:36 pm

Many years ago my father was waiting stationary at red light and was rear-ended. Both bumpers severely damaged. Insurance details exchanged.

2 weeks later father's insurance states that other party is claiming my father rolled back into car behind and they have a witness. My father states the obvious - amount of damage could not be caused by his car rolling back and that anyway traffic light is on decline on his side of the road and that he would have had to engage reverse to 'roll back'. Some people will lie about anything.

T7

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Re: False motor accident accusation

#523462

Postby pje16 » August 18th, 2022, 12:43 pm

terminal7 wrote:Many years ago my father was waiting stationary at red light and was rear-ended. Both bumpers severely damaged. Insurance details exchanged.

2 weeks later father's insurance states that other party is claiming my father rolled back into car behind and they have a witness. My father states the obvious - amount of damage could not be caused by his car rolling back and that anyway traffic light is on decline on his side of the road and that he would have had to engage reverse to 'roll back'. Some people will lie about anything.

T7

That sort of thing infuriates me
I hope your father was not out of pocket


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