Copies of an LPA?

[Gilgongo]

I have applied for LPAs in case I lose my marbles and my family needs to act for me. I understand that the OPG will send me this as a printed document, and give my attorneys a login to a system that allows them to give a code to organisations that does, er, something (that they should be given the power to act on my behalf I guess).

The banks, brokers, etc. I'm with say on their websites that they would want a "certified copy" of the LPA from me (assuming capacity) for my attorneys to act. They don't say if they'll return this, and none of them mention the gov.uk code system at all. So I'll assume that's not going to happen.

Reading this, it talks about a "copy" of the original:

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/certify

Do they mean I can photocopy the original, certify that, and send it off? I've been caught out by the word "copy" in legal situations before when it's meant some formal copying system involving a solicitor, seals etc., not the lay person's definition.

[BullDog]

That's what I've done. The LPAs are stamped by the OPG before returning to you. Nearly every organisation I contacted were happy with a scanned copy emailed to them. Only one organisation wanted the verification code from the LPA website. Seems a shame to me that a system is set up to validate LPAs and virtually nobody wants to use it.

[Gilgongo]

Thanks, good to know. So I assume that means I could make a couple of photocopies copies myself to keep (prior to certifying them if needed), then have the originals stored by a solicitor along with my will, for example?

[BullDog]

Thanks, good to know. So I assume that means I could make a couple of photocopies copies myself to keep (prior to certifying them if needed), then have the originals stored by a solicitor along with my will, for example?

I would say so. I think you'll find scanned copies useful to send out by email. I keep ours in a fire proof box in the house along with wills and house deeds.

[quelquod]

Thanks, good to know. So I assume that means I could make a couple of photocopies copies myself to keep (prior to certifying them if needed), then have the originals stored by a solicitor along with my will, for example?

You can photocopy them and get the copies certified at your local post office - 3 copies for around £12 last time I did it and they’ll do as well as the original. Oddly (?) I’ve never been asked for a sight of the original when getting copies certified which surely makes the procedure a bit suspect!

[MyNameIsUrl]

I've had copies made and certified at my local Jobcentre - they did it with no charge.

I can't understand how someone could certify the copy as 'true' unless they made the copy themselves - if a multi-page copy is made by someone else wouldn't it take hours to check there were no differences before certifying it?

[Gilgongo]

Interesting about the post office or job centre certifying - I'm pretty sure that's not recognised by the OPG as being legit if there was a dispute. I'd be pretty surprised (not so say concerned!) If a bank accepted it too.

[Gilgongo]

Just a footnote on this as I've found out a bit more about the details after chatting to a solicitor who deals with family law.

On the issue of people other than the donor certifying an LPA: an attorney cannot ask a solicitor (or other authority) to certify a copy of the donor's LPA if the donor has capacity.

This is because only the donor can confirm that the copy is an accurate representation of their own wishes, and logically they have no reason to falsify the certification. They are also presumed to be able to understand the significance of certifying it and can make the decision for themselves about whether or not to do it.

If the donor does not have capacity, then a solicitor may be able to certify a copy of their LPA on their behalf. However, this would only be possible in certain circumstances, such as if the donor had appointed a deputy to make decisions about their property and affairs. Otherwise, once the donor has lost capacity, the attorney can act without further authorisation.

Apparently, the new online "code" system that the OPG set up is really for cases when the donor has lost capacity. This explains why most organisations I spoke to weren't that interested, and instead wanted a "certified copy".

[tlf67482]

Is anyone able to help out with any of the following (thought best to use existing thread)?

1. Should the donor be following the instructions on https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/certify to certify a copy of their LPA as soon as possible?

2. Should the last page of the copied LPA have two (not just one) statements specified written on that page?

3. Scanning in the copy of the LPA with each page donor certified to a PDF is a good idea as (most) institutions will accept this or should it be a PDF of the LPA without certification?

4. Should the donor be making multiple copies and spending a day agonisingly certifying them just in case they are needed?

5. Should we be including the page Notice Of Registration Of A Lasting Power Of Attorney (it has case number, the donor and list of attorneys) in the copy or just from Section 1 The Donor (Page 1) to a blank page of Section 11 Signature Attorney Or Replacement?

6. Is there any need of keeping any previous communication from the OPG (e.g. acknowledgements, activation keys etc) once you have the actual notice of registration and have registered online with the details they provided?

7. @Gilgongo mentioned that a solicitor can't certify a copy but this seems to contradict what it says on https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/certify can anyone clarify further? I am concerned that I read some financial institutions only accept solicitor not donor certified copies?

Many thanks

[chas49]

Is anyone able to help out with any of the following (thought best to use existing thread)?

1. Should the donor be following the instructions on https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/certify to certify a copy of their LPA as soon as possible?

Since you can only certify a copy if you have capacity, it's a good idea to do it now.

2. Should the last page of the copied LPA have two (not just one) statements specified written on that page?

The guidance does say "On the final page of the copy, you must also write: “I certify this is a true and complete copy of the lasting power of attorney.”" (bold added)

The phrase is slightly different. The first one is saying the page is a copy of the corresponding page, the second is saying the whole thing is a complete copy[/quote]

3. Scanning in the copy of the LPA with each page donor certified to a PDF is a good idea as (most) institutions will accept this or should it be a PDF of the LPA without certification?

If an institution is accepting a scan, they probably should have the certified copy bit on it I would suggest.

4. Should the donor be making multiple copies and spending a day agonisingly certifying them just in case they are needed?

With most PDF software you can add the declaration to the PDF so you only have to copy and paste it to each page rather than handwriting the declaration. Then print the copies as many times as you need, and sign and date every page next to the declaration. It still takes a while but it's less tiresome (IMHO) than writing out the declaration many times.

Or you could handwrite the declaration once on each page of one copy, then copy those as many times as you require, and sign as above

For clarity, in both cases - don't copy and print the signature and date - handwrite that bit on each page.

5. Should we be including the page Notice Of Registration Of A Lasting Power Of Attorney (it has case number, the donor and list of attorneys) in the copy or just from Section 1 The Donor (Page 1) to a blank page of Section 11 Signature Attorney Or Replacement?

Only include the pages that have the OPG official stamp

6. Is there any need of keeping any previous communication from the OPG (e.g. acknowledgements, activation keys etc) once you have the actual notice of registration and have registered online with the details they provided?

It's not needed, but why not? Annotate the activation keys to say they've been used so any future person doesn't worry. The attorneys will have their own account and activation keys - so tell them to do that now as well.

7. @Gilgongo mentioned that a solicitor can't certify a copy but this seems to contradict what it says on https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/certify can anyone clarify further? I am concerned that I read some financial institutions only accept solicitor not donor certified copies?

I can't see why a solicitor wouldn't be able to do this. They'll charge though so why not do it yourself? Print a copy of the relevant gov.uk guidance page and keep it with the LPA so it can be shown to anyone in doubt.

(IANAL so take my advice with caution)