Mad - and sad

[stewamax]

Today (13th May) the Times commented that a homeless man is to face trial for “leaving his house” during the lock-down.
He was arrested in London on 5th May and charged with being “outside of the place where you were living, namely no fixed address”.
I trust a good pro bono lawyer will savage the CPS for this act of insensitive idiocy.
If they did the same to one of the Traveller fraternity, Auntie Discrimination would turn up to give the CPS some "guidance"

[mutantpoodle]

rest assured...no one in any position of authorityn will be responsible for this action
its media news
but may still happen...without result of relevance

[didds]

rest assured...no one in any position of authorityn will be responsible for this action
its media news
but may still happen...without result of relevance

I'd agree wrt the initial "arrest" etc.

But if it is really going to court etc i.e. "is to face trial " this has also been in front of senior officers and/or the CPS presumably, so there has to be some semblance of "position of authoity" involvement ?

Of course there may be more to the story than has been reported...

didds

[mutantpoodle]

qq
so there has to be some semblance of "position of authoity" involvement ?
uqq

no doubt about it................but I suggested that no one 'would be held reponsible'
ie held to account for the waste of time and money for obviously no end benefit to anyone

these jobs worth exist in order to be seen to be doing something no matter that it is of no use at all

[swill453]

Today (13th May) the Times commented that a homeless man is to face trial for “leaving his house” during the lock-down.
He was arrested in London on 5th May and charged with being “outside of the place where you were living, namely no fixed address”."

That's selective quoting, not sure whether by you or the Times. The Independent says the charge was "outside of the place where you were living, namely no fixed address or refused to provide your address details.”

There is some suggestion that he claimed to be on his way home, refused to provide his address, and only later claimed to be homeless.

"A CPS spokesperson said: “We are very clear on what the regulations state around homelessness but believe, in this case, there is sufficient evidence to proceed. Details of the disputed facts will be heard in court in due course.”"

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/c ... 10186.html

Scott.

[stewamax]

Today (13th May) the Times commented that a homeless man is to face trial for “leaving his house” during the lock-down.
He was arrested in London on 5th May and charged with being “outside of the place where you were living, namely no fixed address”."

That's selective quoting, not sure whether by you or the Times. The Independent says the charge was "outside of the place where you were living, namely no fixed address or refused to provide your address details.”

Could be a selective quote, but the selection was not mine.
Even if the charge related to the "refused to provide your address details" clause, it is difficult to see how someone with no fixed above can provide an address if they haven't one. There is a substantive difference between "No - I won't give you my address" and "I don't have an address" even if Mr Plod doesn't realise that the latter is not a refusal per se.

And the Act states inter alia that this offence cannot be committed by a homeless person
It should not be forgotten that having no fixed abode does not mean that the individual doesn't consider that he/she normally 'lives' in some wider area ("Around Lambeth"; "Bedford Square area") without having somewhere with a front door. It is not unusual (as I found when I worked near Oxford St) for someone to occupy the same doorway or other sheltered 'accommodation' overnight for years.

I assume there is more to this than is currently reported or the red-tops will have a field day lampooning the CPS.

[PinkDalek]

Could be a selective quote, but the selection was not mine.

A link to the article itself, for those of us who can access, might have been of assistance, as well as the full article title. The only direct quotes you would appear to have provided are “leaving his house” and “outside of the place where you were living, namely no fixed address”.

[Dod101]

stewamax provided all that the Times reported so there is no need nor benefit in a link to the article itself. When I read it (before I read the OP here), I assumed that there had to be something more to it than was being reported. I cannot imagine that the police or the CPS wanted to be made fools of (as is happening here) It was not 'an article' anyway. It was a snippet to fill in an odd space in a newspaper column.

Anyway it made for a bit of light entertainment at the expense of 'authority' which is usually fair game for most editors.

Dod

[Howyoudoin]

He sounds like a real swell guy. Just the type of bloke you want hanging around train stations when your daughter, sister, etc is going to work.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... london-man

At the hearing, Monsour admitted carrying a hammer in his bag last February and claimed it was for his protection.
Pakenham told the court: “On 25 February he was speaking to Italian women about Bangladeshis marrying Italians. He’s approached by police and asked about the claw hammer. He said it was for his safety in case anyone wants to attack and kill him.”

The defence counsel, Omololu Thomas, said: “He was carrying it for his own protection.”

Monsour interrupted: “The Italian girls made a complaint against me, I didn’t touch them. They said that I am gay. I asked them if they liked me and they said no. I asked them why they were talking about me like that, then. They said they were calling the police.”

Monsour, of no fixed address, was fined £200 after admitting possession of an offensive weapon in a public place.

He was granted bail until 22 June, when he will stand trial for leaving a place without reasonable excuse during the coronavirus emergency period.

[GoSeigen]

stewamax provided all that the Times reported so there is no need nor benefit in a link to the article itself.

A link to the original source or a free alternative is a common courtesy and always useful to other users of this site.

GS

[Dod101]

stewamax provided all that the Times reported so there is no need nor benefit in a link to the article itself.

A link to the original source or a free alternative is a common courtesy and always useful to other users of this site.

GS

There was no obvious link and The Times article said nothing more. However, it looks like HYD has found the full case in the Guardian so no doubt that will help you.

Dod

Moderator Message:
RS: Personal remark removed

[dionaeamuscipula]

He sounds like a real swell guy. Just the type of bloke you want hanging around train stations when your daughter, sister, etc is going to work.

Indeed, although he sounds to me like someone with mental health issues or drug abuse issues or, of course, both.

It does also sound a bit like there is more to the story than meets the eye, perhaps he is supposed to be in a bail hostel or other treatment/low level justice unit in such a way as to not trigger an offence for that specific act.

However anyone who has read The Secret Barrister's book (and I highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys sausages) would believe the CPS - who recently managed to secure the conviction of someone for an offence that didn't exist - capable of any level of idiocy and muddled thinking.

DM

[PinkDalek]

There was no obvious link and The Times article said nothing more.

I don't believe everything I read on the internet (nor in the newspapers).

Thus the sole reason I asked for a link (mistakenly assuming there was such a thing), as I was pushed for time at 03:22am but thanks for your confirmation there was nothing more in the printed version, so I shan't bother looking nor buying yesterday's back issue.

However, it looks like HYD has found the full case in the Guardian so no doubt that will help you.

As did swill453 earlier but to another linked source.

I merely wished to read what The Times had to say in the entirety, when I next bothered to take a look at TLF.

My guess is stewamax may not have been quoting from The Times as such, more likely from a newsfeed but only s/he can tell us.

Unless you know better.

[Dod101]

I merely wished to read what The Times had to say in the entirety, when I next bothered to take a look at TLF.

My guess is stewamax may not have been quoting from The Times as such, more likely from a newsfeed but only s/he can tell us.

Unless you know better.

The entire Times report is as follows

'A homeless man will face trial for 'leaving his house' during lockdown despite District Judge Alexander Jacobs saying that the charge made no sense. Sultan Monsour, 45, was arrested at Liverpool Street station in London on May5 and charged with being 'outside of the place where you were living, namely no fixed address'. The prosecution service said it would pursue the matter.'

I have no idea why this is of such great interest. The piece quoted by HYD sounds like the same incident and the Times piece is simply an edited version of that picking out one part only, I assume for the sake of effect.

Dod

[PinkDalek]

I have no idea why this is of such great interest.

Who said it was but this is a discussion board with no need always to comment on the interests of others.

[Dod101]

No but I cannot really see the great interest as I expect stewamax posted in the first place just as a bit of fun.

Anyway thanks for showing your appreciation for the trouble I took to find the item from the Tomes and posting it here.

Dod

[PinkDalek]

I'd show appreciation in the normal way, as I often do, if your tenor was less Headmasterly.

Not that I didn't enjoy your Tomes (which you've still got time to edit).

[Dod101]

My tenor was not intended to be Headmasterly. It must be that Nicola's lockdown is getting to me. (I live in rural Scotland)

Dod

[swill453]

It must be that Nicola's lockdown is getting to me. (I live in rural Scotland)

There are worse places to be in a lockdown.

Scott. (semi-rural Scotland)

[stewamax]

Could be a selective quote, but the selection was not mine.

A link to the article itself, for those of us who can access, might have been of assistance, as well as the full article title. The only direct quotes you would appear to have provided are “leaving his house” and “outside of the place where you were living, namely no fixed address”.

stewamax provided all that the Times reported so there is no need nor benefit in a link to the article itself.

A link to the original source or a free alternative is a common courtesy and always useful to other users of this site.GS

I apologise for my discourtesy.
I quoted from a newsprint copy of The Times.
Posting an inline or linked scanned image of the full (albeit short) article is against TLF rules (Rule 2 sections 7 and 8).