Transfer property to estranged wife

[anniesdad]

Hi All, it’s been agreed on my separation agreement from a year back that I need to transfer a Specified buy to let flat to my wife. Spoke to my conveyancer - no probs, nice and simple, I’ll do it for you for an hours work (£250 !!! ) So I’m happy with this, just want it over and done. I want to keep things nice and simple and as amiable as we can.

But her solicitor has sent a whole list of demands, all over the top ridiculous I think, he wants a trust set up temporarily, proof of my solvency, management pack etc etc and As a result now my conveyancer says her quote no longer stands. It will be at least double and there will be more costs as well.

My question: Can I say no to his extra demands ie ... “This flat transfer has already been agreed by all parties legal teams. I’m Transferring it to you lock stock and barrel and paying £250 legal fees for a standard conveyance. Let us know when you are ready to accept.”

Thanks for reading.

[Avantegarde]

I can't answer your question with any authority but her solicitor's demands sound ridiculous. You are straightforwardly handing over a bit of property, with no payment or mortgage involved, directly to her, (I presume). What could be simpler? Just sign the relevant Land Registry forms and Bob is your uncle. I'd certainly be tempted to tell her solicitor to get lost, unless your own solicitor can point out that the suggested approach of your ex-wife's solicitor is some sort of court approved protocol in these circumstances.

[Maylix]

I can't answer your question with any authority but her solicitor's demands sound ridiculous. You are straightforwardly handing over a bit of property, with no payment or mortgage involved, directly to her, (I presume). What could be simpler? ......

This is an interesting situation..... I presume the solvency issue is so that a court can't unwind the transfer late, claiming it was an attempt to remove assets from the reach of creditors. Not sure what the other side would do though if they weren't happy that you were solvent (enough), refuse to accept the flat until some later time??
And the management pack they are asking for sounds like the info that gets asked for in any leasehold purchase, which are always more complicated than freehold purchases because they involve the buyer taking on ongoing liabilities (e.g. service charges) which the buyer gets forewarned about by their solicitor, plus there has to be an apportionment of such liabilities between buyer and seller depending on the transfer date and when the charges were last paid.
So maybe not as simple as on first sight.....But I would still be minded to tell the other side to pay for any due diligence they want do, over and above the basic transfer, out of their own pocket
Maylix

[GoSeigen]

So maybe not as simple as on first sight.....But I would still be minded to tell the other side to pay for any due diligence they want do, over and above the basic transfer, out of their own pocket

This.

GS

[JamesMuenchen]

Seems over the top to me, especially if it wasn't in the separation agreement.

Had a quick look on www.wikivorce.com, and can't find any examples asking for all this.

You could try asking the question there yourself.

[Clitheroekid]

Does the separation agreement not specify who will bear the legal costs of the conveyancing? It should have done.

[anniesdad]

Thanks so much for the responses. The Separation document doesn’t mention legal costs for this property so I presume we just pay our own. However it does say “each side should mitigate the others costs and tax liability where reasonable”.

My beef is that her solicitor insists on ridiculous stuff maybe to bump up his bill and my solicitor then has to do the same to me. It’s less than an hours work but her solicitor wants to string it out a lot more than that.

I’ve told my conveyancer to say no to him as his demands are just unreasonable. They can have it whenever they want but I’m keeping the property until he agrees to accept it with bulk standard Legal’s. Strange thing is that it makes £500 profit each month lol. I hope they take a long time

[GoSeigen]

I’ve told my conveyancer to say no to him as his demands are just unreasonable. They can have it whenever they want but I’m keeping the property until he agrees to accept it with bulk standard Legal’s. Strange thing is that it makes £500 profit each month lol. I hope they take a long time

You mean "bog-standard Legals"? The above looks like a good approach.

GS

[Mike4]

I'm not sure there is anything that could be described as "bog-standard legals" where a leasehold property is concerned. Assigning a lease involves the assignee taking on possibly onerous responsibilities and liabilities, depending on their circumstances and attitudes. For example, the roof of the building might need replacing, or the car park re-surfacing and a substantial call for funds from the leaseholders might be demanded.

Similarly the flat might be in a building with flammable cladding and I've seen figures of £30k per flat being asked of leaseholders to replace. In the meantime the flats are of near zero value and a walking watchman has to be employed full time to keep an eye out for fire. The ground rent or service charges might also be onerous. I sold one flat where the freeholder was monstrously avaricious and took every opportunity to shaft the leaseholders to the fullest extent he could in law (he was a solicitor). He succeeded for example in raising the ground rent on each of the garages from £30 a year to about £800 a year overnight, exploiting a poorly drafted lease.

Anyway the point is, her solicitor would be failing in his duty to allow her to just accept the lease without appraising her of the liabilities (current and future) that come with it.

[scrumpyjack]

But it sounds like the separation agreement, which she presumably signed, simply provided for the lease to be transferred to her. There were no warranties as to the potential problems of the property of other possible liabilities, so all that is not relevant.

By signing the lease she has already implicitly accepted that what is to be transferred is the existing lease warts and all. This is not an open market purchase at arms length and so the things that a solicitor might want to raise in an open market transaction are not applicable.

[Avantegarde]

But it sounds like the separation agreement, which she presumably signed, simply provided for the lease to be transferred to her. There were no warranties as to the potential problems of the property of other possible liabilities, so all that is not relevant.

By signing the lease she has already implicitly accepted that what is to be transferred is the existing lease warts and all. This is not an open market purchase at arms length and so the things that a solicitor might want to raise in an open market transaction are not applicable.

From my lofty standpoint of monumental ignorance, I would agree. The court has awarded the flat to her; she has agreed to this deal; he has offered to transfer the flat to her; therefore she should accept. If she or her lawyer wanted to debate the details and problems of leasehold ownership then they had their chance at the divorce court. If they think accepting the flat is too problematic then surely their option is to go back to the divorce court and re-open the settlement?

[Mike4]

Yes I see the point you two are making and actually yes I agree with you. The OP should sign the transfer papers and send to wife's solicitor, they can action the transfer or not. Up to them, take it or leave it!

Point of order though, they appear not to be divorced, this is a separation agreement not a divorce agreement if I read the OP right. So no prolly court hearing was involved.

[Clitheroekid]

The Separation document doesn’t mention legal costs for this property so I presume we just pay our own.

They can have it whenever they want but I’m keeping the property until he agrees to accept it with bulk standard Legal’s. Strange thing is that it makes £500 profit each month lol. I hope they take a long time

Again, a separation agreement should always specify a date for the transfer of income-generating property, so that the income is properly apportioned for tax purposes. It wasn't a `back of an envelope' agreement was it?

You are right to refuse the information requested. The conveyancer dealing with the acquisition of the flat for your wife is probably unqualified, and is operating a case management system, which is supposed to enable unskilled people to undertake conveyancing. They will therefore have an on screen checklist for buying a leasehold flat, and they have to be able to tick all the boxes before the system will let them move on to the next screen.

If the flat was jointly owned then there's absolutely no excuse, as your wife would be deemed to be fully aware of all the relevant information anyway. But even if it's just in your name (which I assume it is) your only obligation under the terms of the agreement is to transfer title, which, as your conveyancer has said, is an hour's work at most. Your wife has agreed to accept it warts and all, not subject to a due diligence investigation. Consequently, if she requires all the additional information then it must be on the terms that she will indemnify you against the additional costs.

[eisman]

Anniesdad wrote:

Hi All, it’s been agreed on my separation agreement from a year back that I need to transfer a Specified buy to let flat to my wife.

Comments so far have been in relation to the legal process, or the income from the flat. Have you also considered the capital gains tax position?

Transfers of assets between spouses are made on a no gain/no loss basis whilst you are actually living together (or treated as living together). A formal separation agreement means you are no longer treated as living together. As the agreement was 'a year back', the transfer will be in a later tax year than the year of separation and therefore will be treated for tax purposes as transferred at its current market value. This may give rise to a capital gain if the value of the flat has increased since purchase.

[anniesdad]

Thanks for all the responses - it’s what I needed - another perspective. To clarify ....

It was a proper legal separation agreement.
A lot of things were specified and agreed. Including this specific property. Value etc was queried and thrashed out over a long period before the agreement was signed. So yes it’s transfer With warts and all has been agreed after a proper period of consideration and negotiation.
We are still married but a divorce is proceeding.
We were living in same house when separation agreement was signed, feb 2019. Since then we live separately in different houses
I didn’t think CGT would apply but there is a clause that she is liable if there is any.
I was meant to transfer it within 28 days. I didn’t because of her conveyancer unreasonable demands and also because they weren’t complying on their other obligations. They have done everything now that they were required to but i find it so unpleasant dealing with solicitors that I’ve not got around to this last bit until now.
I don’t feel I owe her the rent as I have had the risk, I’ve managed it ie maintained it, marketed it, updated it, etc during this time, paid the costs. What do you All think?
She has said that it would be easier if I just give her the cash. She doesn’t have any interest in property but she loves cash. But I don’t have any cash because she took it all already lol

[johnhemming]

I don’t feel I owe her the rent as I have had the risk, I’ve managed it ie maintained it, marketed it, updated it, etc during this time, paid the costs. What do you All think?

It depends upon what the agreement said, but the normal principle would be that the rights and responsibilities would transsfer on a date. Hence if there are identified costs then those can be deducted. If the value was part of the agreement then you have not carried a risk on value.

[Mike4]

I don’t feel I owe her the rent as I have had the risk, I’ve managed it ie maintained it, marketed it, updated it, etc during this time, paid the costs. What do you All think?
She has said that it would be easier if I just give her the cash. She doesn’t have any interest in property but she loves cash. But I don’t have any cash because she took it all already lol

Hold on, this is new!

May I ask, are you currently the sole owner of this flat, or do you and your wife currently own it jointly and you are just transferring your proportion of ownership to her? This is not clear to me from your previous posts.

If you own it 100% yourself I'd say the rent you receive up and until the transfer is completed is yours and none of her business. If the two of you own it jointly and severally then a proportion, perhaps 50%, is hers.

As you seem to be at war with each other then should you decide to give her any of the rent, the last way I'd pay would be in cash. Bank transfer or some other way with an audit trail is essential, I suggest.

[anniesdad]

I own it 100 %. In my name only. It was agreed feb 19 that I would transfer it lock stick and barrel to her. Which I want to do and have initiated this process twice now but I feel her conveyancer was being obstructive with his pedantry. As it remains in my name I have received quite a bit of income on it but have also spent time and money on it.

[didds]

I own it 100 %. In my name only. It was agreed feb 19 that I would transfer it lock stick and barrel to her. Which I want to do and have initiated this process twice now but I feel her conveyancer was being obstructive with his pedantry. As it remains in my name I have received quite a bit of income on it but have also spent time and money on it.

so how would she know if in this interim you'd received any rent?
or is she to take on a sitting tenant?

I appreciate these are not legal answers, merely remedies.

Id suggest if she wanted a cash equivalent of the flat then that is what shoud have been put in the sepration agreement surely.

[anniesdad]

Yes she will take on the sitting tenant. I’ve been fully open and disclosed all the relevant figures such as tenancy documents. So yes she will know that I’ve had an income from it.