Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34,Anonymous, for Donating to support the site

Custody of children

including wills and probate
anniesdad
Lemon Pip
Posts: 80
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 4:27 pm
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Custody of children

#350585

Postby anniesdad » October 25th, 2020, 9:12 pm

Hi All, in our separation agreement 18 months ago it was agreed childcare for our 3 kids (15,13,10) would be 50 50.

More recently my children have decided that their dad is a joke, lazy, an embarrassment and an idiot. Their words. This morning really stirred up a hornets nest when I asked my 10 year old to put his swanky new phone down and get out of bed. It was 0900 and we were going out. This sort of attitude from me apparently proves that I am a control freak. And who do I think I am telling someone what they should do. It’s been building for some time but this evening they collectively told me they were changing the arrangement to 5 days there and 2 days with me. There are fewer house rules round there. Ice cream for breakfast and silly stuff like that. You can even eat it in bed if you’re tired.lol. There’s more junk food and no limits on screen time.

I’ve tried to laugh it off but this is a lot more serious than what I’m portraying to them.

The words they use are identical to their mothers and I’m pretty sure that finances are behind all of this.

What are my options? Are children really in charge now?

Thanks for reading.

uspaul666
2 Lemon pips
Posts: 231
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:35 am
Has thanked: 195 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: Custody of children

#350641

Postby uspaul666 » October 26th, 2020, 8:03 am

The children are not in charge. They are children. They are probably feeling hurt and want someone to blame and parents or one of their parents are always the easiest and most convenient target. You’re just going to have to decide what kind of dad you want to be and stick to it. If you do stick to your guns and are patient and honest about what you are doing and why then hopefully by the time they reach 17 to 24 they will be able to understand and even respect you for the sacrifices, efforts and example you have made. But it’ll likely be a long haul with little thanks along the way.
Hope that helps.

johnhemming
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3858
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:13 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 609 times

Re: Custody of children

#350662

Postby johnhemming » October 26th, 2020, 9:38 am

anniesdad wrote:What are my options? Are children really in charge now?

It may be that finances are behind it. However, even if that is true that is not what you have to deal with necessarily.

As children get older their views are treated with more importance. A 15 year old would often be deemed Gillick competent and allowed to have their own legal representation in a court process - if they know to ask. A 13 year old probably would as well and whilst they are at it they would probably not appoint a separate guardian for the 10 year old, but they might.

My advice to people in terms of private family law is to put real efforts into trying to stop things going into court. If you already have a court order then both parents should follow it and I would not suggest just getting advice from a forum is the best approach.

Otherwise it is best really to avoid getting it into court. Children whose parents have split up often want their parents just not to argue and the long term is more important than the short term.

Adamski
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1073
Joined: July 13th, 2020, 1:39 pm
Has thanked: 1465 times
Been thanked: 553 times

Re: Custody of children

#350671

Postby Adamski » October 26th, 2020, 10:07 am

Growing up my parents separated (but got back together). It's an unsettling time for the children, so can be tough on them, perhaps why the mother is spoiling them and not setting boundaries (wrong thing obviously). It's great that you're there for them. Good luck.

anniesdad
Lemon Pip
Posts: 80
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 4:27 pm
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Custody of children

#350806

Postby anniesdad » October 26th, 2020, 5:05 pm

Thank you all. I should clarify that we don’t have a court order as no court was ever involved, just solicitors. A formal financial separation agreed to split my assets 50:50, with no maintenance either way as child care was 50:50.

An extremely lengthy and painful process that really screws everyone up.

Surely we have stick to this agreement until another arrangement was mutually and formally agreed. Or until kids reach 16 and leave home.

Clitheroekid
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2848
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 9:58 pm
Has thanked: 1384 times
Been thanked: 3759 times

Re: Custody of children

#351142

Postby Clitheroekid » October 27th, 2020, 7:26 pm

anniesdad wrote:Surely we have stick to this agreement until another arrangement was mutually and formally agreed. Or until kids reach 16 and leave home.

One of the reasons I gave up practising in this area of law decades ago was the effective impossibility of enforcing court orders relating to custody and access (the terms then used) let alone private agreements.

Every Monday morning I would receive at least one phone call from the absent parent (which effectively meant the father) furious that he'd driven 100 miles to pick his children up on `his' weekend only to find a note from his ex saying they'd taken them away for the weekend, or that she'd phoned on Friday evening saying they were ill, or a million other excuses.

No doubt some of the excuses were genuine, but many of them weren't - they were just an example of an embittered ex-wife using her power over the children to wind up the father, invariably very successfully.

Of course the father would insist on her being taken to court for breach of the order, and I would wearily explain for the umpteenth time that it was a waste of time and money. When he insisted, and spent a lot of time and money, the judge would invariably tell the mother she'd been a naughty girl, and not to do it again. We'd apply for the costs of the application, which would be routinely refused, as the judge would say he couldn't be sure she'd done it deliberately.

So I was left with a furious client whose willingness to spend `whatever it takes' had suddenly bit a brick wall.

The sad fact is that once children get to this age their father can't force them to see him if they don't want to.

It may well be the case that the only reason they don't want to is that they've been subjected to a constant stream of poison from their mother, but it's completely hopeless to expect them to understand that. It's also utterly counter-productive trying to get them to believe it, as they quite understandably don't want to believe their mum is a bad person and will only resent the father more for trying to make her into one. And it's a simple fact that as she’s with them all the time she has infinitely more opportunity to influence them than he does.

Very occasionally mediation would work, but in many cases the father effectively gave up even trying to make the order work.

The only consolation (and it's a small one) is that if the father did make sure that he kept in touch by writing to them, making sure he remembered birthdays etc - and most importantly did not keep telling them what a vile woman their mother was - then as the children matured they would often voluntarily resume contact, even though the mother might try to prevent it. And in many cases by the time the children were adults they had resumed a good relationship with their father.

It was also sometimes (though not often) the case that if the father stopped insisting on his rights and just bit his tongue the mother would gradually become more reasonable and allow resumed contact.

I know it's not what you want to hear, as I've experienced the reaction of so many fathers in similar situations, but this really is a case of an agreement that for all practical purposes is unenforceable, simply because enforcing it will almost certainly fail to achieve what you want. Children who are only present because a judge has ordered it will often have been so brainwashed by their mother that they will feel like prisoners and react accordingly.

So the best advice is firstly to forget using lawyers to enforce the agreement, and to try not to react with anger or aggression, difficult though it may be. It may be worth agreeing to a trial period of you having them for just two days a week, simply because you haven't much choice (I'm assuming their mother also wants this arrangement). You may even find that it works better for all of you, unlikely as it may seem at this stage. Be a good father to them while they're with you, and do not complain about their mother or react to her criticism of you. There's nothing worse for children than to be torn between their parents, so no matter how justified your views of her may be keep them to yourself. In the long run there's every chance that it will work out OK.

anniesdad
Lemon Pip
Posts: 80
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 4:27 pm
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: Custody of children

#351674

Postby anniesdad » October 29th, 2020, 12:02 pm

Great post. Thankyou.


Return to “Legal Issues (Practical)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests