Speeding charge - possible mitigation?

[Arborbridge]

That's an interesting comment. My cruise control seems to set the speed at 1mph below what I believe is the true speed - at least judging my speed from a number of observations against roadside speed indicators. I don't check the speedo so I can't comment on that specifically - there's no need to as I use the cruise control, which I would assume is in sync with the speedo.

Things I would trust to give an accurate speed:
- speed cameras
- GPS/satnav

Things I wouldn't trust to give an accurate speed:
- car speedometers
- roadside speed indicators

Scott.

Roadside speed indicators may or may not be accurate in an absolute sense, but over many journeys and different speed indicators they seem remarkably consistent in telling me my cruise control is 1mph different. If I set 31, I am doing 30.

As for GPS - at least on a phone - it's an average and always lags.

Arb.

[swill453]

As for GPS - at least on a phone - it's an average and always lags.

Of course, but at a steady speed I'd say it's pretty accurate.

Scott.

[UncleEbenezer]

but is it possible to argue that you were merely keeping up with the flow of traffic, and that you believed it would be hazardous to do otherwise?

I don't somehow see that one working Sounds a schoolboyish excuse. You are obliged drive at the correct speed: it's up to others what they do.

For what it's worth, when I was a young chap and had a motorbike, I felt the need to apply that principle in some places, like the A4 heading in to Bristol (30mph limit, 45mph prevalent speed). Going at 30 while all the cars pass at 45 gets truly scary!

Never had the same scary feeling in a car, no doubt because the drivers wouldn't be "squeezing past".

BTW, if you ever do cycle training, one thing you learn is to "hold the lane" so cars can't "squeeze past" where it's unsafe. Sometimes it's intuitive: you hold the lane when on the downhill and doing something in the ballpark of the speed limit, but let the cars past on the uphill. But not always: it can be counterintuitive, and only experience tells you when and how best to apply it. Gets scary when you have to block cars on the uphill due to particularly poor road design/layout, or (occasionally) to temporary hazards like roadworks or something dangerously parked.

[DrFfybes]

... You might get an offer of a course, ...

I very much doubt it for the reasons already stated in this thread, not least that the OP has recently completed one (well within the 3 year time limit), or are you saying there are no questions asked and there is no joined up thinking?

I do know someone who had 2 courses in different areas in close succession. Not sue if it was because the first one hadn't been logged properly (in fact he might not even have attended itbefore getting offered the second) but there was some sort of lag or error.

Paul

[Lootman]

if you ever do cycle training, one thing you learn is to "hold the lane" so cars can't "squeeze past" where it's unsafe. Sometimes it's intuitive: you hold the lane when on the downhill and doing something in the ballpark of the speed limit, but let the cars past on the uphill. But not always: it can be counterintuitive, and only experience tells you when and how best to apply it. Gets scary when you have to block cars on the uphill due to particularly poor road design/layout, or (occasionally) to temporary hazards like roadworks or something dangerously parked.

Seems like a two-edged sword to me.

Yes, it deters a driver behind you from overtaking you. But if he decides he is going to overtake you anyway then it is almost inevitable that he is going to pass you closer than he otherwise would need to be.

And any vehicle coming the other way that moves to its right, for whatever reason, is going to give the overtaking driver a very uncomfortable choice: a head-on collision or swerving left and side-swiping you.

It's the same dilemma when passing parked cars on a bike. You can move right to avoid being doored. But that places you closer to all that speeding traffic. Do you want to hit by a door or a SUV?

[zico]

If we all kept within the speed limits then of course there would be no need for any of this discussion. As I have got older (and having to be habitually on a dual carriageway with average speed cameras for about 40 miles) I have got used to setting my cruise control at 73 or 74 mph and sailing on regardless. If the traffic is not too heavy, it is very relaxing and there are very few occasions when there is the slightest need to even think about driving more quickly. The OP's circumstances were clearly emotionally charged but even so I guess in retrospect he would probably agree that arriving 15 minutes later would not have made a lot of difference.

Dod

Guess it depends what you're used to. I travelled on motorways and dual-carriageways today for about 80 miles, and instead of my normal 80ish speed, drove at 70-77mph (as indicated on my speedometer, which I reckon over-estimates by about 10%. I actually found it more tiring than normal, because the aim of my normal driving style is to spend as much time as possible away from bunches of traffic, so I overtake with a reasonable speed difference, then find a gap, adjust my speed to spend the maximum time in my little bubble, then when there's another bunch of traffic ahead, overtake that lot, and find another gap (obviously, it's the reverse process when there's traffic quicker than me). At 70-77mph, I found I was spending much more time in "gradually creeping up" mode - either me to a vehicle ahead, or a car overtaking me. At one stage with a pick-up truck, it was like a slow-motion and very dull version of the film "Duel" as he very very very gradually overtook me, then slowed down slightly, then I gradually overtook him, which happened about 7 or 8 times. As a result, I'm spending a much higher proportion of driving time in close promixity to other vehicles and assessing what they might do next.

Obviously I'll have to get used to this driving style for the next few years with my upcoming 6 points, but at least this first time, it was a pain.

[Dod101]

If we all kept within the speed limits then of course there would be no need for any of this discussion. As I have got older (and having to be habitually on a dual carriageway with average speed cameras for about 40 miles) I have got used to setting my cruise control at 73 or 74 mph and sailing on regardless. If the traffic is not too heavy, it is very relaxing and there are very few occasions when there is the slightest need to even think about driving more quickly. The OP's circumstances were clearly emotionally charged but even so I guess in retrospect he would probably agree that arriving 15 minutes later would not have made a lot of difference.

Dod

Guess it depends what you're used to. I travelled on motorways and dual-carriageways today for about 80 miles, and instead of my normal 80ish speed, drove at 70-77mph (as indicated on my speedometer, which I reckon over-estimates by about 10%. I actually found it more tiring than normal, because the aim of my normal driving style is to spend as much time as possible away from bunches of traffic, so I overtake with a reasonable speed difference, then find a gap, adjust my speed to spend the maximum time in my little bubble, then when there's another bunch of traffic ahead, overtake that lot, and find another gap (obviously, it's the reverse process when there's traffic quicker than me). At 70-77mph, I found I was spending much more time in "gradually creeping up" mode - either me to a vehicle ahead, or a car overtaking me. At one stage with a pick-up truck, it was like a slow-motion and very dull version of the film "Duel" as he very very very gradually overtook me, then slowed down slightly, then I gradually overtook him, which happened about 7 or 8 times. As a result, I'm spending a much higher proportion of driving time in close promixity to other vehicles and assessing what they might do next.

Obviously I'll have to get used to this driving style for the next few years with my upcoming 6 points, but at least this first time, it was a pain.

I understand that and on my average speed camera road bunching of traffic can be frustrating I agree but that is what driving is about these days and as the saying goes 'we are all in this together'. Except at the risk of what happened to you that is the price we pay for the privilege of having our own mode of transport. And I certainly got used to a slower drive and more road sharing. I doubt that the average speedometer overestimates one's speed by as much as 10 mph; mine I am sure does not but the speed cameras on 'my' dual carriageway allow for speeds up to 10% above the official speed limit before they will record a transgression or so the guy from Bear Scotland told me when they installed the cameras, which is why I habitually do around 73/4 mph. Some drivers still are terrified of a camera and automatically brake on approaching one irrespective of their speed.

Just console yourself that you will now be a safer driver and may help some other more nervous soul on the motorway.

Dod

[redsturgeon]

... You might get an offer of a course, ...

I very much doubt it for the reasons already stated in this thread, not least that the OP has recently completed one (well within the 3 year time limit), or are you saying there are no questions asked and there is no joined up thinking?

I do know someone who had 2 courses in different areas in close succession. Not sue if it was because the first one hadn't been logged properly (in fact he might not even have attended it before getting offered the second) but there was some sort of lag or error.

Paul

I attended two courses within two years in the same area.

First one 78 mph in NSL, second 36mph on an open dual carriageway that for some reason has a 30 mph speed limit.

When the NIP was received for the second one I simply ticked the box requesting a "useful" speed awareness course and they send me on it.

Thank you very much, probably saved a bit in insurance costs.

WRT use of cruise control to limit speed I have often felt in less control when using it than when not. I find using a speed limiter to be better.

John

[Dod101]

With a speed limiter, can you override it in a tricky situation? There are times when, notwithstanding a speed limit, it is necessary to move out of a situation at a higher speed.

Dod

[PinkDalek]

I attended two courses within two years in the same area.

First one 78 mph in NSL, second 36mph on an open dual carriageway that for some reason has a 30 mph speed limit. ...

That 's interesting but neither of those seem to exceed the excess speed calculations of driving over 10% plus 2mph of the limit, but below 10% plus 9mph.

That's assuming your 'NSL' is meant to mean 70mph! Which it isn't. See, for example, https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q594.htm.

[staffordian]

With a speed limiter, can you override it in a tricky situation? There are times when, notwithstanding a speed limit, it is necessary to move out of a situation at a higher speed.

Dod

Yes.

A sharp depression of the throttle overrides it, or at least has done in the Nissan and Hyundai I have experience of. And, of course, this is the natural reaction when additional speed is needed.

In both vehicles, there is a "soft stop" to the pedal, and it's going beyond this which overrides the limiter.

[Dod101]

With a speed limiter, can you override it in a tricky situation? There are times when, notwithstanding a speed limit, it is necessary to move out of a situation at a higher speed.

Dod

Yes.

A sharp depression of the throttle overrides it, or at least has done in the Nissan and Hyundai I have experience of. And, of course, this is the natural reaction when additional speed is needed.

In both vehicles, there is a "soft stop" to the pedal, and it's going beyond this which overrides the limiter.

Thanks. I have never used a speed limiter which I expect I have on my car. Must investigate.

Dod

[didds]

I just googled "VW T3 speed limiter" and all the hits are how to remiove it/remove the limit.

Im interested in SETTING the limit but can't find out how to do so! LOL.

[staffordian]

I just googled "VW T3 speed limiter" and all the hits are how to remiove it/remove the limit.

Im interested in SETTING the limit but can't find out how to do so! LOL.

Silly question, but does it actualy have one?

My first cruise control was on a 2012 SEAT which had cruise control but no limiter; it's only on later built cars I've had both.

[bionichamster]

I've just received 2 motorway speeding notifications of intent to prosecute, one for travelling at 85mph and another for 88mph. They were about 15 minutes apart and occurred when I was travelling to visit my elderly father because I'd just received a call to say he'd had a bad fall and an ambulance had been called.

Is this grounds for mitigation or would i just be wasting my time trying?

A friend of mine had the same thing happen on a motorway where he was caught either side of the border between police forces a few minutes apart. He paid the fine for the first one and then challenged the second one on the basis that it was the same offence (going to court over petty things was a bit of a hobby of his)

His defence was based on a legal principle that I think is called ‘convict autrefois’ or something like that, meaning that you can’t be convicted twice for the same offence.

It possibly worked, the clerk of court came to see him to ask about whether he would accept some minor changes to the paperwork and he declined as he hadn’t a clue why they were doing it. But at the same time he told the clerk that what his defence was going to be (up until now he hadn’t told them about the previous speeding ticket from the neighbouring force minutes before the second) the chap said “oh really?.. I’ll be back in a minute” and sure enough when he came back he told my friend the charge was dropped and no case to answer. To this day we have no idea the exact reason for dropping, but he feels it was definitely the dual conviction aspect.

He got the idea from some internet research showing up a number of other people avoiding twin speeding charges using the same approach, I.e. accept the first, fight the second.

This was around 15 to twenty years ago, don’t know if that’s relevant

BH

[didds]

I just googled "VW T5 speed limiter" and all the hits are how to remiove it/remove the limit.

Im interested in SETTING the limit but can't find out how to do so! LOL.

Silly question, but does it actualy have one?

That's rather the point too. Googling suggests SOME must have (it is T5 not T3, built 2010 so not "new" etc) a limiter as there are lots of suggestions as to buying gizmo X/Y/Z and using that to turn it OFF... but none saying how to turn it ON (even with gizmo X/Y/Z) , or that it isn't fitted as standard and all these vans WITH one must have done so with an after-market provision etc .

hey ho!

[bionichamster]

I just googled "VW T5 speed limiter" and all the hits are how to remiove it/remove the limit.

Im interested in SETTING the limit but can't find out how to do so! LOL.

Silly question, but does it actualy have one?

That's rather the point too. Googling suggests SOME must have (it is T5 not T3, built 2010 so not "new" etc) a limiter as there are lots of suggestions as to buying gizmo X/Y/Z and using that to turn it OFF... but none saying how to turn it ON (even with gizmo X/Y/Z) , or that it isn't fitted as standard and all these vans WITH one must have done so with an after-market provision etc .

hey ho!

If it has a limiter function built in to the ecu then you should be able to access it with a bit of software like VCDS https://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/

You’ll have to buy the licence and a connector then have a look...

If you Google Vcds speed limiter there’s plenty info, but be careful some people report being unable to raise the limit once set ( there may be various settings that can be changed”, you can do loads of other fun stuff with VCDS

I guess a friendly garage with the software could take a quick look for you and tell you if the facility is there. Look for an independent VAG specialist.

Bh

[Mike4]

I just googled "VW T3 speed limiter" and all the hits are how to remiove it/remove the limit.

Im interested in SETTING the limit but can't find out how to do so! LOL.

Have you looked in the vehicle manual? It will almost certainly tell you how to use the speed limiter "if fitted".

[tsr2]

Yes, our two vehicles are both in my wife's name and under her insurance, so any traffic tickets I get will not affect her insurance.

Assuming that you are a named driver then they have to be declared and the insurance company will take them into account.
I'm sure you know that and I'm wondering if I'm missing your point?