Speeding charge - possible mitigation?

[zico]

I've just received 2 motorway speeding notifications of intent to prosecute, one for travelling at 85mph and another for 88mph. They were about 15 minutes apart and occurred when I was travelling to visit my elderly father because I'd just received a call to say he'd had a bad fall and an ambulance had been called.

Is this grounds for mitigation or would i just be wasting my time trying?

[Clitheroekid]

It can't do any harm, though penalties for minor speeding offences tend to be more or less fixed.

More importantly, which motorway was it and whereabouts?

[zico]

Both were close to M1/M62 junction just south of Leeds.
First was 88mph M1 between Jn39 & 40.
Second 10 mins later 75mph M62 between Jn 27 & 26.

[Mike4]

Many, many years ago my friend was prosecuted for two offences of speeding, about one minute apart. The policeman following (on a motorcycle) said he had slowed briefly to within the speed limit therefore two offences occurred. Harsh, but fair.

If you put your hands up to one of these offences, could you argue to have the other set aside claiming you never slowed down? Just a thought.

[airbus330]

From personal experience(albeit a long time ago) I would be inclined to employ a specialist solicitor who will probably put up a defense that your attention was distracted by the traumatic news. I tried a similar, but different ploy and got clouted with a rather large fine for my trouble.

[UncleEbenezer]

From personal experience(albeit a long time ago) I would be inclined to employ a specialist solicitor who will probably put up a defense that your attention was distracted by the traumatic news. I tried a similar, but different ploy and got clouted with a rather large fine for my trouble.

Please, m'lud. I wasn't in a fit state to drive.

That would argue they should, at the very least, prosecute you for driving without due care and attention.

[AsleepInYorkshire]

I've just received 2 motorway speeding notifications of intent to prosecute, one for travelling at 85mph and another for 88mph. They were about 15 minutes apart and occurred when I was travelling to visit my elderly father because I'd just received a call to say he'd had a bad fall and an ambulance had been called.

Is this grounds for mitigation or would i just be wasting my time trying?

If I recall correctly the first should also offer a "naughty elf" course which should be available if you haven't been on one for the last three years. I think it costs the same as the fine but you get no points. The second you could ask the court to consider it was the same journey and seek mitigation. Or just suck it up pay the £100 and take the points.

As airbus has said you can hire legal types on your behalf which could help but that may be an expensive option?

AiY

[airbus330]

From personal experience(albeit a long time ago) I would be inclined to employ a specialist solicitor who will probably put up a defense that your attention was distracted by the traumatic news. I tried a similar, but different ploy and got clouted with a rather large fine for my trouble.

Please, m'lud. I wasn't in a fit state to drive.

That would argue they should, at the very least, prosecute you for driving without due care and attention.

You might feel that, but it is not true. If there are extenuating circumstances such as a medical emergency this may be used to avoid endorsement but it must be shown that there was no reasonable alternative other than to drive at a speed above the limit. This is where hiring a specialist lawyer is worth the money because they will present the evidence in the most sympathetic manner. I tried it without and failed. However, life was a lot simpler 40 years ago and the laws around driving offences were more liberal.

[Lootman]

If I recall correctly the first should also offer a "naughty elf" course which should be available if you haven't been on one for the last three years. I think it costs the same as the fine but you get no points.

It is my understanding that the "comedy traffic school" course avoids the points but not the fine. After all, you are thereby pleading guilty.

If you fight it and lose then I imagine you will lose the comedy school option.

[airbus330]

I've just received 2 motorway speeding notifications of intent to prosecute, one for travelling at 85mph and another for 88mph. They were about 15 minutes apart and occurred when I was travelling to visit my elderly father because I'd just received a call to say he'd had a bad fall and an ambulance had been called.

Is this grounds for mitigation or would i just be wasting my time trying?

If I recall correctly the first should also offer a "naughty elf" course which should be available if you haven't been on one for the last three years. I think it costs the same as the fine but you get no points. The second you could ask the court to consider it was the same journey and seek mitigation. Or just suck it up pay the £100 and take the points.

As airbus has said you can hire legal types on your behalf which could help but that may be an expensive option?

AiY

Hopefully for the OP, the 85 was the earlier offence as it is within the 10%+9 max for a SA course. I think 88 is straight to points/fine. Also he/she doesn't say if they currently have any points on the license, so sucking up to lots of points might be loss of license. Then you start think of the ramifications for insurance going forward, which are not nice. TBH if the choice was a course and a 3 points I'd take that to avoid the hassle of fighting it.

I'm sure the OP knows this, but its worth checking that the NIP was issued and posted within 14 days of the offense. Some constabularies also give a photo of your offence and the last calibration certificate of the equipment used. These two are the most commonly successful defenses with speeding. I used the 14 day one successfully in 1999.

[airbus330]

If I recall correctly the first should also offer a "naughty elf" course which should be available if you haven't been on one for the last three years. I think it costs the same as the fine but you get no points.

It is my understanding that the "comedy traffic school" course avoids the points but not the fine. After all, you are thereby pleading guilty.

If you fight it and lose then I imagine you will lose the comedy school option.

No, you avoid the fine, but get clouted for the cost of the Course which is about £100.

[Lootman]

Then you start think of the ramifications for insurance going forward, which are not nice.

Depends if it was your car or not. The last traffic ticket I got (40 years after the only other one I ever got) was when I was driving my wife's car, so no hit on insurance.

If I recall correctly the first should also offer a "naughty elf" course which should be available if you haven't been on one for the last three years. I think it costs the same as the fine but you get no points.

It is my understanding that the "comedy traffic school" course avoids the points but not the fine. After all, you are thereby pleading guilty.

If you fight it and lose then I imagine you will lose the comedy school option.

No, you avoid the fine, but get clouted for the cost of the Course which is about £100.

Hmm, OK, I felt sure the traffic cop told me otherwise but will defer. Anyway I could not be [expletive deleted] to do the course and so collected the points. I'd have to do that 3 more times in the next 3 years for it to matter, so worth the odds.

[PinkDalek]

Hopefully for the OP, the 85 was the earlier offence as it is within the 10%+9 max for a SA course. I think 88 is straight to points/fine. ...

The OP provided further (seemingly correcting the 85mph to 75mph) detail later on, such that the offences would appear to be in the wrong order, as it were, potentially to benefit from one of the valid points you are making:

First was 88mph M1 between Jn39 & 40.
Second 10 mins later 75mph M62 between Jn 27 & 26.

Edit: As far as I'm aware a Speed Awareness Courses, if eligible, avoids the points.

[airbus330]

Then you start think of the ramifications for insurance going forward, which are not nice.

Depends if it was your car or not. The last traffic ticket I got (40 years after the only other one I ever got) was when I was driving my wife's car, so no hit on insurance.

It is my understanding that the "comedy traffic school" course avoids the points but not the fine. After all, you are thereby pleading guilty.

If you fight it and lose then I imagine you will lose the comedy school option.

No, you avoid the fine, but get clouted for the cost of the Course which is about £100.

Hmm, OK, I felt sure the traffic cop told me otherwise but will defer. Anyway I could not be [expletive deleted] to do the course and so collected the points. I'd have to do that 3 more times in the next 3 years for it to matter, so worth the odds.

LoL, I'm sad to say I did a speed course last year and avoided fine/points. TBH it was actually quite good and you do pick up some up to date pointers. Same month my 88 year old father-in-law did one too and he enjoyed it!
As regards the insurance, the insurers can see your license now, so no place to hide! Bizarrely in this data age, they can't see if you have done a speed course. Anyway, 3 points is regarded as an insurance non event since it is so easy to get them today, especially if you are a high mileage driver, which I was until recently.

[Lootman]

As regards the insurance, the insurers can see your license now, so no place to hide!

I know, but that only matters if you are the insured. If you were driving a vehicle whose insurance did not include you as a named driver, which was the case with me, then there is no effect on the insurance. How could there be?

[airbus330]

Hopefully for the OP, the 85 was the earlier offence as it is within the 10%+9 max for a SA course. I think 88 is straight to points/fine. ...

The OP provided further (seemingly correcting the 85mph to 75mph) detail later on, such that the offences would appear to be in the wrong order, as it were, potentially to benefit from one of the valid points you are making:

First was 88mph M1 between Jn39 & 40.
Second 10 mins later 75mph M62 between Jn 27 & 26.

Edit: As far as I'm aware a Speed Awareness Courses, if eligible, avoids the points.

Unlucky if it is in that order.
Double unlucky to get done at 75, as the general principle is Speed limit +10%+2mph for a trigger, although anecdotally some forces are said to be tightening up on that. The machines are only calibrated to a 2mph error and you have to allow for speedo error on top of that, hence the 10%+2. Perhaps he was on a smart m/way with a variable limit in force.

[airbus330]

As regards the insurance, the insurers can see your license now, so no place to hide!

I know, but that only matters if you are the insured. If you were driving a vehicle whose insurance did not include you as a named driver, which was the case with me, then there is no effect on the insurance. How could there be?

Sorry, I think we're talking at cross purposes. I was talking about having to declare the offence on your next application to take out car insurance and this potentially hiking your premium. Although as said, a low grade speeding ticket is largely ignored for premium calculations. Obviously, your wife's insurance would be unaffected.

[PinkDalek]

Unlucky if it is in that order.
Double unlucky to get done at 75, as the general principle is Speed limit +10%+2mph for a trigger ...

Clitheroekid asked More importantly, which motorway was it and whereabouts? and the answer provided may have some bearing in view of your Perhaps he was on a smart m/way with a variable limit in force.

The answer provided was Second 10 mins later 75mph M62 between Jn 27 & 26 which leads to:

The M62 Motorway (Junctions 25 to 30) (Actively Managed Hard Shoulder and Variable Speed Limits) Regulations 2012
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/1865/made

[Lootman]

As regards the insurance, the insurers can see your license now, so no place to hide!

I know, but that only matters if you are the insured. If you were driving a vehicle whose insurance did not include you as a named driver, which was the case with me, then there is no effect on the insurance. How could there be?

Sorry, I think we're talking at cross purposes. I was talking about having to declare the offence on your next application to take out car insurance and this potentially hiking your premium. Although as said, a low grade speeding ticket is largely ignored for premium calculations. Obviously, your wife's insurance would be unaffected.

Yes, our two vehicles are both in my wife's name and under her insurance, so any traffic tickets I get will not affect her insurance.

Two traffic tickets in 40 years hardly makes me an insurance risk anyway, but we prefer to own, register and insure under my wife's name, for this and other reasons.

[zico]

Just to clarify, it was 85mph not 75mph for one offence.
Ironically, about 3 weeks ago I completed an on-line motorway speeding awareness course. You could reasonably say it obviously didn't work, but I actually have been a lot more conscious to obey speed limits, just not on this one recent journey when I was worried about my father. Since obeying the variable speed limits signs, I've noticed just how much faster than the variable limit everyone goes - it's 10-20mph at least.

I'm currently on zero points, so looks like my best approach is simply to pay up, get the 6 points, then be much more careful for the next 12 months.