Speeding charge - possible mitigation?

[PinkDalek]

... I'm currently on zero points, so looks like my best approach is simply to pay up, get the 6 points, then be much more careful for the next 12 months.

Don't you mean the next 36 months from the date of the offence(s)?

[AsleepInYorkshire]

... I'm currently on zero points, so looks like my best approach is simply to pay up, get the 6 points, then be much more careful for the next 12 months.

Don't you mean the next 36 months from the date of the offence(s)?

Sorry to contradict but I think it's 48 months.

Here's a link that may be informative or at the very least put me in my place for misunderstanding it

AiY

[Dod101]

In my part of the world we have average speed cameras and although they can be a pain they certainly slow down the traffic which I must say I think is a good thing, but from the point of view of the driver and other road users.

Trust elderly father is OK.

Dod

[airbus330]

Just to clarify, it was 85mph not 75mph for one offence.
Ironically, about 3 weeks ago I completed an on-line motorway speeding awareness course. You could reasonably say it obviously didn't work, but I actually have been a lot more conscious to obey speed limits, just not on this one recent journey when I was worried about my father. Since obeying the variable speed limits signs, I've noticed just how much faster than the variable limit everyone goes - it's 10-20mph at least.

I'm currently on zero points, so looks like my best approach is simply to pay up, get the 6 points, then be much more careful for the next 12 months.

Sorry to hear that, I suspect that unless you want to vigorously fight to protect your license, then sucking it up is your best course of action.
WRT your observation of the speed that people drive over the limit on the M/ways with variable speed limits. People learn quickly. Most SMART m/ways have been installed with HADECS3 cameras which sit on the left hand side of the gantry over the hard shoulder. One camera and an infra red flash unit covers all lanes. But, they only install them intermittently on the motorway, so once you know where they are on a journey, its a case of slowing down to pass that gantry and speeding up again. The only sure fire thing which slows traffic (in my observation over 10 years of long commutes) is average speed cameras. Even though half the time they are switched off or broken, people really do obey the limit to the letter within them.
Hope your Dad recovered okay.

[PinkDalek]

... I'm currently on zero points, so looks like my best approach is simply to pay up, get the 6 points, then be much more careful for the next 12 months.

Don't you mean the next 36 months from the date of the offence(s)?

Sorry to contradict but I think it's 48 months.

Here's a link that may be informative or at the very least put me in my place for misunderstanding it

From your link Offence codes and penalty points must stay on your driving record for 4 or 11 years depending on the offence. but that relates to how long they may be shown (before they are wiped and a clean Licence is issued).

Whereas the totting up procedure leading to disqualification is here https://www.gov.uk/penalty-points-endorsements

You can be disqualified from driving if you build up 12 or more penalty points within a period of 3 years.

[zico]

Glad I started this thread, otherwise I'd have been relaxing in 12 months or so! Will now have to be careful for at least 3 years (will probably make it 5 years to be on the safe side).

Thanks for enquiring about my father, turns out he'd broken his collarbone, and is now on the mend. Apparently if you're going to break a bone, the collar-bone is the one to break, as it heals quickest.

[Lootman]

Since obeying the variable speed limits signs, I've noticed just how much faster than the variable limit everyone goes - it's 10-20mph at least.

I know "everyone else does it" is not a valid defence, but is it possible to argue that you were merely keeping up with the flow of traffic, and that you believed it would be hazardous to do otherwise?

Obviously you cannot mix that argument up with the "emergency" argument, which may be a better one. But I often find when driving that everyone is 10 mph over the limit, and figure that it is safe and reasonable to not be an obstruction by going slower.

As an aside, it is a problem with camera speed tickets that you can collect a number of them on the same trip. Whereas if you are ticketed by a cop then it is likely that you would go slower afterwards and not collect multiple tickets.

[zico]

I think my speeds were too high to be able to use the "keeping up with others" argument.
Thinking now that I might just pop in a note of explanation and apology when returning the 2 tickets to confirm I was the driver, in the faint hope that someone may read it and decide not to proceed with the charges.

[swill453]

Since obeying the variable speed limits signs, I've noticed just how much faster than the variable limit everyone goes - it's 10-20mph at least.

I know "everyone else does it" is not a valid defence, but is it possible to argue that you were merely keeping up with the flow of traffic, and that you believed it would be hazardous to do otherwise?

Obviously you cannot mix that argument up with the "emergency" argument, which may be a better one. But I often find when driving that everyone is 10 mph over the limit, and figure that it is safe and reasonable to not be an obstruction by going slower.

As an aside, it is a problem with camera speed tickets that you can collect a number of them on the same trip. Whereas if you are ticketed by a cop then it is likely that you would go slower afterwards and not collect multiple tickets.

Bear in mind that speedometers tend to read about 10% above the actual speed. So while you might have the perception that people are driving 10-20mph above the limit, they're probably actually below the margin that's allowed before prosecution.

Of course that also means that zico's measured 88mph was likely indicating 95+ on the speedometer...

Scott.

[PinkDalek]

Glad I started this thread, otherwise I'd have been relaxing in 12 months or so! Will now have to be careful for at least 3 years ...

Sorry to have been the bearer of that news (some might say it is good news though!) but far more important to learn your father is recovering.

[Howard]

Looking forward, I would have a speed camera warning system in the car. I currently use TomTom AmiGo on my phone. It is so helpful to have a warning of a speed camera ahead, even if you are driving no faster than the speed limit. It will help you over the next three years.

For fun, as I'm retired, I booked a driving assessment test with the Institute of Advanced Motorists and asked about this at the end of the test. (Good score as I was on my best behaviour ) The instructor approved of the warning system as he observed that, often motorists in front can brake suddenly as they see the camera and you are pre warned.

With a fast and quiet car, it's easy to exceed the limit, especially if other drivers are bombing along too! And one can just forget. Years ago there was a speed camera within half a mile of my home which I drove past every day. Bought a new mountain bike. put it in the car to bring it home and was so keen to try it out I caught myself zooming past the camera far too fast. Luckily it wasn't switched on! After that I bought a detector!

regards

Howard

[jfgw]

Many, many years ago my friend was prosecuted for two offences of speeding, about one minute apart. The policeman following (on a motorcycle) said he had slowed briefly to within the speed limit therefore two offences occurred. Harsh, but fair.

I'm not sure I would call it fair. There is a principle that one should not profit from a crime. I think it reasonable, also, that one should not be penalised for not committing a crime.

Exceeding the speed limit for 10 minutes is worse than exceeding the limit twice for four minutes with a two-minute interval. I would consider it fair, however, for a single offence spanning a considerable distance to be counted more than once (by more than one camera).


Julian F. G. W.

[DrFfybes]

Looking at this dispattionately, you did commit the offence(s).

Trying to fight them would require a costly specialist solicitor with an uncertain outcome.

Therefore you could plead mitigation. You presumably need to answer the "I was driving" part and then they will send you actual prosecution letter informing you what you have been charged with. At that point you can choose whether to plead guilty by post to one or both, to plead mitigtion, or to plead guilty in court to present your mitigation.

You might get an offer of a course, if the letters overlap from different regions you might get 2 offers of a course (unikely) but until you know what the charges are all you can do is wait and see.

FWIW I got flashed a month or so ago on the M40 in a 40mph variable limit with 2 of the 4 lanes signed as being closed for roadworks. The signs had been up for about 3 or 4 miles, it was 10pm on a Friday, and there were no roadworks or signs lit after the one that flashed me (nt even an "end of restriction" one. I was somewhat miffed for a couple of weeks until nothing arrived in the post.

Paul

[Dod101]

If we all kept within the speed limits then of course there would be no need for any of this discussion. As I have got older (and having to be habitually on a dual carriageway with average speed cameras for about 40 miles) I have got used to setting my cruise control at 73 or 74 mph and sailing on regardless. If the traffic is not too heavy, it is very relaxing and there are very few occasions when there is the slightest need to even think about driving more quickly. The OP's circumstances were clearly emotionally charged but even so I guess in retrospect he would probably agree that arriving 15 minutes later would not have made a lot of difference.

Dod

[Clitheroekid]

II guess in retrospect he would probably agree that arriving 15 minutes later would not have made a lot of difference.

As the old saying goes, "Better 15 minutes late in this life than 15 years early in the next!"

[PinkDalek]

... You might get an offer of a course, ...

I very much doubt it for the reasons already stated in this thread, not least that the OP has recently completed one (well within the 3 year time limit), or are you saying there are no questions asked and there is no joined up thinking?

[Arborbridge]

Since obeying the variable speed limits signs, I've noticed just how much faster than the variable limit everyone goes - it's 10-20mph at least.

I know "everyone else does it" is not a valid defence, but is it possible to argue that you were merely keeping up with the flow of traffic, and that you believed it would be hazardous to do otherwise?

Obviously you cannot mix that argument up with the "emergency" argument, which may be a better one. But I often find when driving that everyone is 10 mph over the limit, and figure that it is safe and reasonable to not be an obstruction by going slower.

As an aside, it is a problem with camera speed tickets that you can collect a number of them on the same trip. Whereas if you are ticketed by a cop then it is likely that you would go slower afterwards and not collect multiple tickets.

but is it possible to argue that you were merely keeping up with the flow of traffic, and that you believed it would be hazardous to do otherwise?

I don't somehow see that one working Sounds a schoolboyish excuse. You are obliged drive at the correct speed: it's up to others what they do.

[Arborbridge]

Bear in mind that speedometers tend to read about 10% above the actual speed. So while you might have the perception that people are driving 10-20mph above the limit, they're probably actually below the margin that's allowed before prosecution.

Of course that also means that zico's measured 88mph was likely indicating 95+ on the speedometer...

Scott.

That's an interesting comment. My cruise control seems to set the speed at 1mph below what I believe is the true speed - at least judging my speed from a number of observations against roadside speed indicators. I don't check the speedo so I can't comment on that specifically - there's no need to as I use the cruise control, which I would assume is in sync with the speedo.

Since I gained a few points many years ago, I decided just to go with what the speed limit says at all times and using the cruise control is the easiest way of staying out of trouble.
What I do not understand about human nature is why some people never learn and collect repeated speeding offences and fines. As a counterweight to that remark, I know how easy it is to let the speed drift upwards in modern cars without being aware of it - I've done it myself when NOT using the cruise control.

Arb.

[swill453]

That's an interesting comment. My cruise control seems to set the speed at 1mph below what I believe is the true speed - at least judging my speed from a number of observations against roadside speed indicators. I don't check the speedo so I can't comment on that specifically - there's no need to as I use the cruise control, which I would assume is in sync with the speedo.

Things I would trust to give an accurate speed:
- speed cameras
- GPS/satnav

Things I wouldn't trust to give an accurate speed:
- car speedometers
- roadside speed indicators

Scott.

[staffordian]

That's an interesting comment. My cruise control seems to set the speed at 1mph below what I believe is the true speed - at least judging my speed from a number of observations against roadside speed indicators. I don't check the speedo so I can't comment on that specifically - there's no need to as I use the cruise control, which I would assume is in sync with the speedo.

Things I would trust to give an accurate speed:
- speed cameras
- GPS/satnav

Things I wouldn't trust to give an accurate speed:
- car speedometers
- roadside speed indicators

Scott.

I'd only trust GPS/ satnav to give a pretty accurate indication of a settled, reasonably constant speed over level-ish ground.

Some say altitude changes affect the accuracy, but as I'm not Gengulphus, I can't begin to calculate how big an effect this is. But I do know they take a time to stabilise, so I'd not be relying on a GPS speedo if I was accelerating hard up to a limit where there was a camera.

Based on different satnavs, I did find my last car's speedo was pretty consistently almost 10% optimistic from about 20mph up to 60mph then it stayed about 5 or 6mph optimistic beyond that. Whereas my current car seems about 10% optimistic up to around 30 then remains about 3mph fast beyond it.

What I find really useful where there are average speed cameras is not the cruise control, but the max speed setting. Not having adaptive cruise control, it means it's far easier to keep pace with traffic, without having to worry about going over the limit.