Credit card and record of deceased

[Sunnypad]

This might be my fault but I am feeling fragile so please don't shout at me.

When dad's estate was done, mum was the executor and some may recall I tried to have input but couldn't really.

One thing I asked the solicitor was if credit agencies would be notified. They basically scoffed and said there was no need to do this. Mum was happy with that and doesnt know what a credit agency is. The estate is closed now.

We have now received a "new" credit card for him. I called the company and they said they have two records for him and one wasn't shut down properly so now mum will have to sort that - they won't allow me to do it. I will sort the letter and mum will sign it.

But now I am thinking that we do in fact need to contact credit agencies? The solicitor was rubbish overall.

I don't how to go about this without exposing mum to more harassment.

What do you think, wise Fools? Is it better to just get it done? Will credit agencies also refuse my input as I was not the executor?

Or can I assume that NI records etc will prevent anyone being able to take out credit in his name?

Advice gratefully received.
S

[Mike4]

<whispering>

I don't think this matters at all, insofar as it will (imo) be the credit card company's problem in the unlikely event that someone clones his ID and uses the card. (I suggest you cut it in half all the same, now.) After all, they have admitted one account has been closed down but they have two records for the same person, so they already know he has passed over and should close the second account with no further action, now you have alerted them. Might be a good idea to return the card to them with a letter pointing this out.

However, bear in mind I am a boiler technician not a lawyer, and you know what their legal advice can be like!

</whispering>

[Sunnypad]

Mike - Thank you for making me laugh!

I'm not thinking of this card being used necessarily but more that if the credit agencies don't know he's dead, could someone apply for and get a card in his name?

The current company aren't closing the card till they get some "security" information from mum. I think the earliest we can do that is Monday as I will need to be with her or she won't know what to say.

[Mike4]

Mike - Thank you for making me laugh!

I'm not thinking of this card being used necessarily but more that if the credit agencies don't know he's dead, could someone apply for and get a card in his name?

The current company aren't closing the card till they get some "security" information from mum. I think the earliest we can do that is Monday as I will need to be with her or she won't know what to say.

Well firstly, people (fraudsters) don't apply to credit agencies to get credit cards, they apply to the banks themselves so I think you are worrying unnecessarily. I'm not sure the credit reference agencies get much of a say in this - they set themselves up as a source of information advising lenders and I don't think you have ANY obligation to ensure the info they have gleaned about you (or in this case, your Dad) is accurate. You certainly have no legal obligation to tell them ANYTHING. You may not even be aware of all of them.

Similarly, if someone fraudulently applied for a card in his name, I don't see any way in which this could bounce back on you or your Mum. You've told the bank he passed over once already but I guess it would be reasonable to give them the further details they are asking for to close the account. But if they fail to do this, and they issue a duplicate card to a fraudster, this is their problem not yours I would have thought.

No doubt CK will be along shortly to tell you everything I've said is wrong ... but the point of writing all this is for peer review. Stuff I've said will be read by a couple of dozen knowledgeable peeps so they will pipe up now, pointing out all my errors

Anyway you sound like you're in need of a virtual hug.... (((((Sunnypad)))))

[supremetwo]

Well firstly, people (fraudsters) don't apply to credit agencies to get credit cards, they apply to the banks themselves so I think you are worrying unnecessarily. I'm not sure the credit reference agencies get much of a say in this - they set themselves up as a source of information advising lenders and I don't think you have ANY obligation to ensure the info they have gleaned about you (or in this case, your Dad) is accurate. You certainly have no legal obligation to tell them ANYTHING. You may not even be aware of all of them.

The banks, however, then check with the agencies before passing an account opening.

So if a clean record of a deceased has not been deleted, it is less stop for a fraudster.

[mc2fool]

"It’s important to notify credit reference agencies about the death. The agencies will add a note to the file of the deceased person. This is to prevent fraudsters from stealing the deceased’s details to obtain credit in their name. Once the note is in the file, credit searches carried out in the deceased person’s name will return a flag, notifying the lender about the death and the possibility of fraud."

https://www.equifax.co.uk/resources/loans-and-credit/death-and-credit-reports.html

[Mike4]

Well firstly, people (fraudsters) don't apply to credit agencies to get credit cards, they apply to the banks themselves so I think you are worrying unnecessarily. I'm not sure the credit reference agencies get much of a say in this - they set themselves up as a source of information advising lenders and I don't think you have ANY obligation to ensure the info they have gleaned about you (or in this case, your Dad) is accurate. You certainly have no legal obligation to tell them ANYTHING. You may not even be aware of all of them.

The banks, however, then check with the agencies before passing an account opening.

So if a clean record of a deceased has not been deleted, it is less stop for a fraudster.

I take your point, but who is being defrauded? The bank or the OP's estate?

[supremetwo]

Well firstly, people (fraudsters) don't apply to credit agencies to get credit cards, they apply to the banks themselves so I think you are worrying unnecessarily. I'm not sure the credit reference agencies get much of a say in this - they set themselves up as a source of information advising lenders and I don't think you have ANY obligation to ensure the info they have gleaned about you (or in this case, your Dad) is accurate. You certainly have no legal obligation to tell them ANYTHING. You may not even be aware of all of them.

The banks, however, then check with the agencies before passing an account opening.

So if a clean record of a deceased has not been deleted, it is less stop for a fraudster.

I take your point, but who is being defrauded? The bank or the OP's estate?

The bank but still hassle for whoever is administering.

P.s. I've just tried to find an article I read recently (Centrica?) that job descriptions for your industry might be changed to attract more females.
So will you need to become 'Mike the boilerperson'?

[Sunnypad]

"It’s important to notify credit reference agencies about the death. The agencies will add a note to the file of the deceased person. This is to prevent fraudsters from stealing the deceased’s details to obtain credit in their name. Once the note is in the file, credit searches carried out in the deceased person’s name will return a flag, notifying the lender about the death and the possibility of fraud."

https://www.equifax.co.uk/resources/loans-and-credit/death-and-credit-reports.html

This is what I said to the solicitor, who said it was unnecessary and mum was happy with that.

Hopefully the learned CK is around somewhere.

I don't even know how many credit agencies are out there and how a fraudster would go about doing this.

I realised this was in a thread i posted at the time but the solicitor said "no need" and the thread moved on.

Mike, thank you for the hug, gender neutral or not

[mc2fool]

"It’s important to notify credit reference agencies about the death. The agencies will add a note to the file of the deceased person. This is to prevent fraudsters from stealing the deceased’s details to obtain credit in their name. Once the note is in the file, credit searches carried out in the deceased person’s name will return a flag, notifying the lender about the death and the possibility of fraud."

https://www.equifax.co.uk/resources/loans-and-credit/death-and-credit-reports.html

This is what I said to the solicitor, who said it was unnecessary and mum was happy with that.

Hopefully the learned CK is around somewhere.

I don't even know how many credit agencies are out there...

There are four credit reference agencies: Crediva, Equifax, Experian and TransUnion.

I have no idea if it's actually necessary to inform them or not, the above was just what I found on a quick google. I'd like to think that having informed your dad's bank of his passing, they would pass that information on to the CRAs....

Why don't you just give one a call and ask what they recommend? Experian is the biggest. https://ins.experian.co.uk/contact

[Clitheroekid]

But now I am thinking that we do in fact need to contact credit agencies?

What do you think, wise Fools? Is it better to just get it done? Will credit agencies also refuse my input as I was not the executor?

I've acted both as executor and for executors on hundreds of occasions, and I've also read lots of (too many!) legal books and articles about the role and duties of executors. I have never once seen any recommendation that executors should contact credit agencies, and I've never done so myself.

So far as I'm aware this has never caused any issues in the hundreds of estates that I've dealt with.

Part of the process of obtaining probate is finding out balances on the deceased's bank accounts. In order to obtain the information an original death certificate has to be lodged with them. I understand that they then issue a `deceased alert' to credit agencies, so there's no need to duplicate this work by doing so yourself.

"It’s important to notify credit reference agencies about the death. The agencies will add a note to the file of the deceased person. This is to prevent fraudsters from stealing the deceased’s details to obtain credit in their name. Once the note is in the file, credit searches carried out in the deceased person’s name will return a flag, notifying the lender about the death and the possibility of fraud."

https://www.equifax.co.uk/resources/loans-and-credit/death-and-credit-reports.html

There's a question preceding this guidance - What happens to a credit report after death? The guidance therefore pre-supposes that the deceased had obtained a credit report from the agency, which is not something that an executor would normally know about.

In any case, it's quite clear that this guidance is primarily designed for to benefit the agency and their creditor customers rather than the estate.

[mc2fool]

I'd like to think that having informed your dad's bank of his passing, they would pass that information on to the CRAs....

Part of the process of obtaining probate is finding out balances on the deceased's bank accounts. In order to obtain the information an original death certificate has to be lodged with them. I understand that they then issue a `deceased alert' to credit agencies...

Hallelujah!

[yorkshirelad1]

This might be my fault but I am feeling fragile so please don't shout at me.
When dad's estate was done, mum was the executor and some may recall I tried to have input but couldn't really.

One thing I asked the solicitor was if credit agencies would be notified. They basically scoffed and said there was no need to do this. Mum was happy with that and doesnt know what a credit agency is. The estate is closed now.

(snip)

As it happens, last night I did a periodic check on my credit record (it's probably good practice to check one's credit record periodically; credit record is different from credit score). Instead of going to the usual three (or four) credit reference agencies viz Equifax, Experian etc, I found that checkmyfile.com does a potted summary of 4 and has a one-month free trial which does the job. All was fine for me, but I picked up on something that I didn't know about, and then I was reminded of it when I read your post this morning, about Disclosure of Death Registration Information

The Disclosure of Death Registration Information (DDRI) scheme allows the Registrars General for England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland to disclose death registration information to lenders to help prevent IOD fraud (Impersonation Of Deceased persons). As lenders check the register, we check it too to make sure your name is not being returned in error.

Googling got me to: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/disclosure-of-death-registration-information-how-to-apply/disclosure-of-death-registration-information

There's also the https://www.deceasedpreferenceservice.co.uk/ which should help stop junk mail to people that have died.

Hope you might find this useful, and other readers too.

[Sunnypad]

Thank you Clitheroe and Yorkshire

I'll stop worrying then

I had stopped worrying but the arrival of the credit card threw me, probably along with the state of my brain at the moment but
that's not for this thread

I wouldn't mind sorting stuff out myself but with mum being the executor, they always need her to be involved. Interestingly I said to the card company yesterday that I have Power of Attorney and they said "that's no good, we have to hear from her".

Thank you all, really appreciate it.

[production100]

I have Power of Attorney and they said "that's no good, we have to hear from her".

Reminds me of a doctors assistant who when I asked when the doctor would sign a patients death certificate said he would have to talk to the patient first.

I politely pointed out that I did not realise they could do that now. She still did not get it...

[Sunnypad]

I have Power of Attorney and they said "that's no good, we have to hear from her".

Reminds me of a doctors assistant who when I asked when the doctor would sign a patients death certificate said he would have to talk to the patient first.

I politely pointed out that I did not realise they could do that now. She still did not get it...

[yorkshirelad1]

Thank you Clitheroe and Yorkshire
I'll stop worrying then
I had stopped worrying but the arrival of the credit card threw me, probably along with the state of my brain at the moment but
that's not for this thread
I wouldn't mind sorting stuff out myself but with mum being the executor, they always need her to be involved. Interestingly I said to the card company yesterday that I have Power of Attorney and they said "that's no good, we have to hear from her".
Thank you all, really appreciate it.

IANAL but
a) power of attorney ceases on death
b) whether a power of attorney can act as an executor seems a very complicated area (Google is your friend) and you would be well advised to get good advice if you want to go down that avenue.
c) quite a number of organisations struggle to deal with POA (just read the Money sections of the Saturday papers for the letters and articles from anguished offspring and relatives etc who have seriously struggled with being able to use POA with e.g. utility companies and banks).

[quelquod]

“ I've just tried to find an article I read recently (Centrica?) that job descriptions for your industry might be changed to attract more females.
So will you need to become 'Mike the boilerperson'? ”

I doubt if even the most extreme women’s rights campaigner would require that Mike no longer call himself a man though.

[Watis]

“ I've just tried to find an article I read recently (Centrica?) that job descriptions for your industry might be changed to attract more females.
So will you need to become 'Mike the boilerperson'? ”

I doubt if even the most extreme women’s rights campaigner would require that Mike no longer call himself a man though.

You would be surprised . . .

There is a recent post from this topic: https://lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f ... 20#p375971

where the use of gendered pronouns was considered offensive: https://lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f ... ie#p376259

What does the panel think?

Watis

P.S. Don't look up 'Xie' if you are of a nervous disposition!

[Sunnypad]

Thank you Clitheroe and Yorkshire
I'll stop worrying then
I had stopped worrying but the arrival of the credit card threw me, probably along with the state of my brain at the moment but
that's not for this thread
I wouldn't mind sorting stuff out myself but with mum being the executor, they always need her to be involved. Interestingly I said to the card company yesterday that I have Power of Attorney and they said "that's no good, we have to hear from her".
Thank you all, really appreciate it.

IANAL but
a) power of attorney ceases on death
b) whether a power of attorney can act as an executor seems a very complicated area (Google is your friend) and you would be well advised to get good advice if you want to go down that avenue.
c) quite a number of organisations struggle to deal with POA (just read the Money sections of the Saturday papers for the letters and articles from anguished offspring and relatives etc who have seriously struggled with being able to use POA with e.g. utility companies and banks).

Sorry I wasn't clear
I have PoA for mum so I thought, if they want to speak to her about dad's card, they should be able to speak to me instead.