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My Niece not being paid for last 6 weeks work

including wills and probate
melonfool
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Re: My Niece not being paid for last 6 weeks work

#395738

Postby melonfool » March 15th, 2021, 12:56 pm

Speak to ACAS and get them to enter into pre claim conciliation. It adds a month to your time anyway so you have time to do it and he might settle once Acas speak to him.

If he doesn't, Acas will give you the number you need.

Keep a close eye on timings, how the Acas pre claim extends your time is a bit complex and I have been known to try to map it out on A3 paper before to understand it!

Fill the rest in (when you do it) as if an employee, let the judge sort that out.

Remember, everything you put in the main part is your case. You cannot add new claims later, so put in everything because you can drop things later.

Mel

mark88man
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Re: My Niece not being paid for last 6 weeks work

#395753

Postby mark88man » March 15th, 2021, 1:39 pm

melonfool wrote:Speak to ACAS and get them to enter into pre claim conciliation. It adds a month to your time anyway so you have time to do it and he might settle once Acas speak to him.

If he doesn't, Acas will give you the number you need.

Keep a close eye on timings, how the Acas pre claim extends your time is a bit complex and I have been known to try to map it out on A3 paper before to understand it!

Fill the rest in (when you do it) as if an employee, let the judge sort that out.

Remember, everything you put in the main part is your case. You cannot add new claims later, so put in everything because you can drop things later.

Mel


Thanks Mel

I had read the material and interpreted it as the early reconciliation process ran parallel with the 3 month limit.

I'll call my niece after work and get her to do that tomorrow

And thanks for the "as employee" advice, I wanted to do that, but wasn't sure if that would be seen as presumptuous

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Re: My Niece not being paid for last 6 weeks work

#396086

Postby mark88man » March 16th, 2021, 11:21 am

Minor Update - ACAS Early Conciliation online request submitted, and a draft ET1 completed, to support that conversation - based on everything discussed so far and representing in terms of claim about 80% excess over if the respondent (ha!) had just paid what had been worked.

It also clear that once the unpaid work is considered (typically preparation and clean up after each shift) then the average wage was under minimum wage. This was mentioned by an earlier poster, but I'm not quite sure of the advantage that commenting on it would bring.

We also have a bit longer than I thought to get through ACAS as the last actual working day was a bit later than I had (mis)understood - so all looking good

melonfool
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Re: My Niece not being paid for last 6 weeks work

#396512

Postby melonfool » March 17th, 2021, 6:51 pm

This Pimlico Plumbers case is useful, broken down here in a Twitter thread.

Upshot - word the claim correctly and ensure claims are in time:

https://twitter.com/JasonBraier/status/ ... 39973?s=19

The min wage claim is important because employers who don't pay min wage get published on the HMRC website and can be fined. This means the respondent is more likely to settle to avoid both these things.

Mel

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Re: My Niece not being paid for last 6 weeks work

#402706

Postby mark88man » April 8th, 2021, 6:50 pm

Hello, its been a while

Not great news to report, ACAS have been and gone, the boss has absolutely and adamantly refused to have anything to do with them, and ACAS advised my niece that they thought she had no chance of claiming for anything over and above the missing core hours.

So I am somewhat disappointed with that advice as it seems clear to me that it was precisely the point of the exercise to do just that. However, as my niece now has a new job, and that is keeping her very busy and she whilst she hasn't got PTSD or anything like that, she said her decision not to proceed for the remaining £500 has been worth it in terms of mental health.

She also asked me to thank you all, she is convinced that she would still be £2000 pounds short if we hadn't at least started down this route. An earlier poster said that some people just wont pay until they actually have been to court, and maybe not even then. Truer words were never spoken - and maybe discretion is the better part of valor in this case - although I am a touch frustrated.

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Re: My Niece not being paid for last 6 weeks work

#402719

Postby fisher » April 8th, 2021, 7:33 pm

I think what you've both done is great. Well done for standing up to him. There is no shame in deciding you've had enough. I bet you've given him a lot more to think about than he bargained for. It's a great experience for your niece in a number of ways. And well done you for standing by her and advising her.

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Re: My Niece not being paid for last 6 weeks work

#402742

Postby mc2fool » April 8th, 2021, 8:49 pm

Hmmm ... well, while I fully understand your niece's desire to put the matter behind her and her feeling that it's worth the loss of the last £500 to get shot of it, it is disappointing that the <expletive deleted> will have got away with, in effect, stealing £500 from her.

I'd have thought that his refusal to engage with ACAS would have put her in a good position in court ... maybe she can pass it off to a no win no fee employment solicitor to deal with. I don't know if any would take it on for such a relatively small amount, but if you google no win no fee employment solicitors there seem to be plenty to choose from -- and if it were me I'd let them keep it all if they could stick it to the guy! :twisted:

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Re: My Niece not being paid for last 6 weeks work

#402743

Postby mark88man » April 8th, 2021, 9:01 pm

Thank you both - pretty much the spectrum of emotions we went through

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Re: My Niece not being paid for last 6 weeks work

#402756

Postby melonfool » April 8th, 2021, 10:05 pm

I'd have thought that his refusal to engage with ACAS would have put her in a good position in court


No, it won't even be mentioned at tribunal. The mediation process is voluntary and the tribunal would be pretty hopeless if it "went against" any employer who refused to participate.
Think about it - if the employer is "innocent" why would they agree to mediation? Mediation only ever leads to the employer paying out, never the employee. Or no settlement. Why would an innocent employer agree? Maybe cost avoidance in some cases. Some, very few though, employees settle for no money but just a neutral reference.
And then if they don't agree it "goes against" them? No, they are entitled to have their hearing same as the employee is.
Also, anything that is said via Acas is "without prejudice" so cannot be brought up anyway.

And no, a no win no fee solicitor won't take this case I'm afraid. They only take slam dunk winnable cases. I have never yet come up against a no win no fee solicitor at tribunal. I once had one claiming to be "no win low fee" which I thought was genius. Funnily enough he was totally bonkers and desperate to settle. We had a strong case, they had almost no case. They tried to get us to settle for £25k. We offered £1,500 simply as a costs avoidance measure and never moved from that - he agreed to it a week before the hearing (despite raving at Acas that I "didn't know how to negotiate" :) ).

Mel


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