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Change to Separation Agreement

including wills and probate
anniesdad
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Change to Separation Agreement

#394045

Postby anniesdad » March 9th, 2021, 8:42 pm

Financially separated feb 19. All assets divided up by solicitors and shared out as agreed. All auctioned apart from one asset. An investment property of mine which she never really wanted but seeing as I didn’t have any more cash left this property was chucked into her half. For some strange reason her and her solicitor never managed to get the transfer done, he seemed to invent problems, and dispute things and then disappear for months. I kept the rent as it’s clearly their failure to complete on it. Now I receive an email saying she wants cash instead of this flat. She has instructed her solicitor not to proceed with the transfer. Our separation agreement says no alterations unless agreed by a court or both of us. I want to stick to the agreement and give her the property. But I fear that she will continue to delay and tells the kids that I’m defaulting and swindling her. Which is harming our relationship. So what is my best course of action so that I stick to our separation agreement, act decently and defend myself in front of my family? Is it right for me to keep the rent?

By total coincidence her solicitor is acting on a totally separate property that I am selling. I guess this is how she knows I may have some cash in the pipeline. However I have this cash earmarked for something else.

Thanks in advance

Lootman
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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#394051

Postby Lootman » March 9th, 2021, 8:55 pm

anniesdad wrote:By total coincidence her solicitor is acting on a totally separate property that I am selling. I guess this is how she knows I may have some cash in the pipeline. However I have this cash earmarked for something else.

Are you sure that is a coincidence? It sounds to me like a total conflict of interest. Shouldn't she recuse herself? Does the Law Society even allow a solicitor to work both sides like that?

anniesdad
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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#394086

Postby anniesdad » March 9th, 2021, 9:56 pm

Apologies I didn’t make that very clear.

I happen to be selling another flat at the moment. The buyers solicitor by coincidence is also my ex wife’s solicitor.

My solicitor is someone completely separate

I presume he has mentioned my upcoming potential sale to her hence her sudden interest in a cash alternative.

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#394120

Postby Lootman » March 9th, 2021, 11:52 pm

anniesdad wrote:Apologies I didn’t make that very clear.

I happen to be selling another flat at the moment. The buyers solicitor by coincidence is also my ex wife’s solicitor.

My solicitor is someone completely separate

I presume he has mentioned my upcoming potential sale to her hence her sudden interest in a cash alternative.

I still think that is a horrifying conflict of interest. That solicitor should at least have had some kind of "Chinese wall" between the two cases and not revealed priviliged information like that to your ex.

I recall one case where a solicitor told me he could not act for me because he had previously acted for someone else who was in a dispute with me.

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#394129

Postby anniesdad » March 10th, 2021, 6:50 am

Thanks for your interest. I guess we will never know what they discussed in private. Maybe he didn’t reveal anything to her and maybe it was a coincidence her suddenly deciding she wanted cash just as I was coming into some. I haven’t responded at all to her offer yet but would like to respond telling her that I don’t have any cash. So she will have to stick to the agreement. They may reveal more.

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#394153

Postby chas49 » March 10th, 2021, 9:07 am

Lootman wrote:I recall one case where a solicitor told me he could not act for me because he had previously acted for someone else who was in a dispute with me.


Without wanting to veer too much off-topic, did that solicitor say "I can't act because I previously acted for someone else who was in a dispute with me", or "I can't act for because of a conflict of interest which I cannot disclose"? The former would identify the other party (presumably) and potentially be the same as the OP's situation.

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#394301

Postby Charlottesquare » March 10th, 2021, 2:41 pm

anniesdad wrote:Financially separated feb 19. All assets divided up by solicitors and shared out as agreed. All auctioned apart from one asset. An investment property of mine which she never really wanted but seeing as I didn’t have any more cash left this property was chucked into her half. For some strange reason her and her solicitor never managed to get the transfer done, he seemed to invent problems, and dispute things and then disappear for months. I kept the rent as it’s clearly their failure to complete on it. Now I receive an email saying she wants cash instead of this flat. She has instructed her solicitor not to proceed with the transfer. Our separation agreement says no alterations unless agreed by a court or both of us. I want to stick to the agreement and give her the property. But I fear that she will continue to delay and tells the kids that I’m defaulting and swindling her. Which is harming our relationship. So what is my best course of action so that I stick to our separation agreement, act decently and defend myself in front of my family? Is it right for me to keep the rent?

By total coincidence her solicitor is acting on a totally separate property that I am selling. I guess this is how she knows I may have some cash in the pipeline. However I have this cash earmarked for something else.

Thanks in advance


You can always say you do not have the cash but are willing to borrow against the property at say 60% LTV (if that is possible) so if she wants cash you can only pay her say 50%-60% of value (after costs). If she bites, do the deal then sell it to A N Other, if she does not bite, or you do not fancy risk, then you could always agree with her you will just sell it and agree you will give her x percentage of the achieved price.(To cover your costs/hassle)

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#395767

Postby dionaeamuscipula » March 15th, 2021, 2:03 pm

anniesdad wrote:Thanks for your interest. I guess we will never know what they discussed in private. Maybe he didn’t reveal anything to her and maybe it was a coincidence her suddenly deciding she wanted cash just as I was coming into some. I haven’t responded at all to her offer yet but would like to respond telling her that I don’t have any cash. So she will have to stick to the agreement. They may reveal more.


Based on what you say, whether you now have or do not have cash is irrelevant. There is an agreement that she will take the property, and it is your choice whether or not to agree to a change. If you decide not to agree, just say, that you don't agree to it.

If you want to have an excuse nonetheless, say that you don't have any cash available.

DM

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#396020

Postby anniesdad » March 16th, 2021, 9:40 am

Thanks for replies.

I have now replied simply stating That I don’t have any cash. And her solicitor confirms that he is no longer instructed to deal with the property transfer. It’s so odd - I am obligated to give her this property but she won’t accept it. I even suggested I just sign the TR1 and hand deliver it with the property keys to her solicitor. Even this isn’t allowed.

I just want to ensure that I am correct in what I am doing legally and morally. How long can this stalemate go on for? For ever??? And I keep the rent? The property is at my risk, I’m maintaining it, managing it. New bathroom recently needed, recent electrical upgrade and certification.

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#396062

Postby SteMiS » March 16th, 2021, 10:56 am

anniesdad wrote:Thanks for replies.

I have now replied simply stating That I don’t have any cash. And her solicitor confirms that he is no longer instructed to deal with the property transfer. It’s so odd - I am obligated to give her this property but she won’t accept it. I even suggested I just sign the TR1 and hand deliver it with the property keys to her solicitor. Even this isn’t allowed.

I just want to ensure that I am correct in what I am doing legally and morally. How long can this stalemate go on for? For ever??? And I keep the rent? The property is at my risk, I’m maintaining it, managing it. New bathroom recently needed, recent electrical upgrade and certification.

I'm not a solicitor so you can take my comments accordingly but if the seperation agreement says that she takes the property, then clearly she's not at liberty to change that unilaterally.

You've made reasonable efforts to transfer the property to her (and you should ensure you have her delaying and refusal to progress matters in writing) so it's hard to see how you can be criticized for that. NB - what if anything does the seperation agreement say about how and when the transfer takes place?

I suppose there is some risk she might sue for the rent you've collected but you'd be able to deduct reasonable costs including a reasonable charge for collecting the rent and managing the property, especially as it's her fault that the transfer hasn't taken place.

I don't know what your relationship is like with her, not good I assume, but what does she say about her reluctance to take the property, especially when you say she can't have the money instead? Why doesn't she put the property up for sale, for example ?

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#397240

Postby anniesdad » March 19th, 2021, 10:05 pm

The agreement says it was to be transferred within 1 month! Other things also overshot the deadlines set on both our sides but this is the only outstanding item now. Through my solicitor I have chased and I have several emails saying, ‘her solicitor is awaiting instructions’ and ‘her solicitor is being diligent’, and the latest is ‘her solicitor is no longer instructed in this matter’. I now have an email from her saying that by the time She extend the lease, pay service charge, pay agents, pay repairs it isn’t worth it for her so she will take a cash offer. It’s value was agreed in the agreement but I don’t have cash. Thanks for reading.

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#397252

Postby staffordian » March 19th, 2021, 10:47 pm

anniesdad wrote: I now have an email from her saying that by the time She extend the lease, pay service charge, pay agents, pay repairs it isn’t worth it for her so she will take a cash offer. It’s value was agreed in the agreement but I don’t have cash. Thanks for reading.

It strikes me as a layman that the situation is simple.

The legally binding agreement is that the property is hers.

She now wants to attempt to re-negotiate this and wants you to make a cash offer. This is clearly not the valuation attributed to the property in the signed agreement because a cash offer was not part of the agreement.

So I would imagine you should make whatever offer in lieu of the property you can afford and are comfortable with (be that 1p or many tens of thousands of pounds) via your solicitor, worded however he sees fit, and I wonder if you can set some sort of ultimatum given your ex's failure to follow through on the original deal to ensure a line can be drawn under the whole thing?

I have read the thread in the past but don't recall all the intricacies. Has your solicitor offered any advice on what recourse you have where a party to an agreement fails to honour it to your detriment (be that stress, worry or uncertainty about the property, it's income and it's ongoing costs?)

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#397260

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » March 19th, 2021, 11:14 pm

anniesdad wrote:The agreement says it was to be transferred within 1 month! Other things also overshot the deadlines set on both our sides but this is the only outstanding item now. Through my solicitor I have chased and I have several emails saying, ‘her solicitor is awaiting instructions’ and ‘her solicitor is being diligent’, and the latest is ‘her solicitor is no longer instructed in this matter’. I now have an email from her saying that by the time She extend the lease, pay service charge, pay agents, pay repairs it isn’t worth it for her so she will take a cash offer. It’s value was agreed in the agreement but I don’t have cash. Thanks for reading.

Tomorrow is another day. If you are fortunate not to have to work at the weekend then you can do something which brings you joy. Sometimes I have to remind myself that I am also allowed to do something for myself every now and again. I have commitments to my good lady and my daughter. I don't need a flash car (not that I could afford one) and I don't need to go fishing or shooting (perhaps I should). I don't have a model railway (bu99er) or a remote controlled aircraft (wish I did) and I don't have Sky Sport. But I can (and do) take my daughter and my good lady out (covid aside) to the theme parks, the zoo's, on holiday and we eat out often. I enjoy their company. It's a very small family but we're close.

I'm not a solicitor. I think you need to take some time out and consider what you can do for yourself next. Perhaps that may involve a final attempt to move forward from your previous relationship? I'm aware that what I've just said may be extremely hurtful. I hope though you look through that and see the need to put yourself up front and centre. It's not vengeful. It's simple common sense. Self preservation.

I'd suggest you send your ex a letter. Explain that you don't have the cash to "buy her equity out" and you're not prepared to take on any debt to do so. Also you may want to consider explaining to her that she has obligations under the agreement to transfer the property. I'd suggest you give her 28 days to respond. There are other options and you may suggest renegotiating the agreement with her solely around this particular part only. Perhaps you could agree to sell the asset or find another solution which doesn't leave you out of pocket or exposed to emotional pressures or financial risk. I'd suggest it's not a time to seek opportunity financially from either of you though.

I'm not sure this is a legal answer to your question. More of a coffee cream cup from "life's box of chocolates". And you may not like coffee. I hope you find a way to move forward and without malice put yourself first every now and again.

AiY

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#397311

Postby GoSeigen » March 20th, 2021, 9:44 am

anniesdad wrote:Thanks for replies.

I have now replied simply stating That I don’t have any cash. And her solicitor confirms that he is no longer instructed to deal with the property transfer.


This may be because of the conflict of interest mentioned in the OP.

It’s so odd - I am obligated to give her this property but she won’t accept it. I even suggested I just sign the TR1 and hand deliver it with the property keys to her solicitor. Even this isn’t allowed.


In what sense isn't it allowed?

GS

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#397360

Postby anniesdad » March 20th, 2021, 11:15 am

It could be the solicitor conflict of interest but I don’t think so. She has emailed me saying she now doesn’t want the trouble of the property. She doesn’t see it as financially worthwhile so she has deibstructed her solicitor. People are all very different, she was never business minded, or entrepreneurial.

My solicitor advised me I can’t just hand the keys over. I would still be the legal owner, and legally liable until a conveyance was signed by both parties.

My solicitor also advised me that they can take as long as they like being diligent or obstructive. It’s their choice. But I keep the income until then No one would have ever expected anyone to turn down free money so that’s why this event hasn’t really been expected.

However my children (and anyone else that will listen) have been told that I’ve swindled her out of this property. That’s why I want it completed ASAP. She would like increased custody of the children (in agreement at 50%) as that will make her more money than £600 a month rent. Turning children against their father (this failed transfer is just one example), striving to make the agreement not work, is her way of getting more custody and ultimately maintenance. She says all the other mums get maintenance from the dads. But obviously our agreement at 50:50 does not require child maintenance. And no spousal maintenance as this was taken care off by the clean break splitting of my assets that we all agreed.

What a can of worms

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#397675

Postby didds » March 21st, 2021, 3:58 pm

IANAL, this undoutedbtely is a stupid diea but...

she doesnt want the property.

you dont want the property.

she wants cash

can you not then offer the property to a charity for 1p, and give her the 1p casgh you have for it.

?

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#397747

Postby Clitheroekid » March 21st, 2021, 8:19 pm

If she doesn't want the property then why don't you just agree to sell it, so that she can have the net proceeds?

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#397765

Postby GoSeigen » March 21st, 2021, 9:47 pm

anniesdad wrote:It could be the solicitor conflict of interest but I don’t think so. She has emailed me saying she now doesn’t want the trouble of the property. She doesn’t see it as financially worthwhile so she has deibstructed her solicitor. People are all very different, she was never business minded, or entrepreneurial.

My solicitor advised me I can’t just hand the keys over. I would still be the legal owner, and legally liable until a conveyance was signed by both parties.

My solicitor also advised me that they can take as long as they like being diligent or obstructive. It’s their choice. But I keep the income until then No one would have ever expected anyone to turn down free money so that’s why this event hasn’t really been expected.


Thanks for your reply. The solicitor's advice looks sound -- that the property is still yours and so the income is yours too, until she accepts transfer to her ownership.

Also agree with Clitheroekid, if she wants cash can you get her agreement to accept whatever the flat sells for in lieu of transfer of the property? You would presumably get your solicitor to put the offer to her, perhaps as a choice between either taking ownership without further delay, or agreeing to your quick-fire sale of the property with net proceeds going to her, no ifs no buts.

GS

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#397776

Postby Chrysalis » March 21st, 2021, 10:09 pm

Radical proposal but...why not keep the property and give her the (net) income it generates? Seems to satisfy all round.
I can see why keeping the income of a property which was part of her settlement (I guess she never actually wanted it, but wanted child maintenance instead?) might not look too good.
How do you split the costs for the children? (Other than their board and lodgings of course). Clothes, kit, school trips, extra curricular stuff, that kind of thing.

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Re: Change to Separation Agreement

#397816

Postby pochisoldi » March 22nd, 2021, 4:32 am

Chrysalis wrote:Radical proposal but...why not keep the property and give her the (net) income it generates? Seems to satisfy all round.
I can see why keeping the income of a property which was part of her settlement (I guess she never actually wanted it, but wanted child maintenance instead?) might not look too good.
How do you split the costs for the children? (Other than their board and lodgings of course). Clothes, kit, school trips, extra curricular stuff, that kind of thing.


So she gets all the income with no effort?

If I were to do that, it would be after deducting a 10 to 15% management fee. If she wants the income without the fee, then execute the transfer.

Carrot and stick.


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