Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Clerical Medical not paying out

including wills and probate
JonnyT
Lemon Pip
Posts: 83
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 8:54 am
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Clerical Medical not paying out

#400510

Postby JonnyT » March 31st, 2021, 8:58 am

My mother died in July last year and had a holding with Clerical Medical in a 'with profits fund'. Probate was obtained in November and Clerical Medical provided with a copy which they have returned. All their required paperwork has been completed and this has been acknowledged.

Just before Christmas they sent a letter to myself containing a chargeable event certificate suggesting the current value of the holding.

Despite numerous phone calls for an hour a time and two further letters they still haven't paid out.

What action(s) can I take to ensure that they pay out?

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7088
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1638 times
Been thanked: 3796 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400521

Postby Mike4 » March 31st, 2021, 9:35 am

My view is stop phoning whenever anything like this comes off the rails, and revert to writing real letters on real paper sent in the Royal Mail. If push comes to shove judges and ombudsmen are, I suspect, are far more swayed by a proper paper trail of photocopies of letters sent and responses (if any) received than haphazard accounts of phone conversations preceded by long waits.

So I agree with Snorv, look up on their website how to raise a formal complaint, and do it in writing. Then make all enquiries about its progress in writing too. That way any and all responses you get should also be in writing, and an undeniable case accumulates. If they ignore your letters, this is powerfully in your favour. Once you have properly exhausted their formal complaints procedure I suspect you can progress to getting the insurance industry Ombudsman involved, but the Ombudsman won't be interested if you have not used the company's formal complaints procedure to its fullest extent first.

(Edit to add the bit about them ignoring letters, if this is how they respond.)

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10692
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400532

Postby UncleEbenezer » March 31st, 2021, 10:34 am

Mike4 wrote:So I agree with Snorv, look up on their website how to raise a formal complaint, and do it in writing.

I have no idea about Clerical Medical, but there seems to be a modern trend for public-facing companies to make themselves virtually impossible to contact in writing. They don't want there to be any verifiable record of a customer's communication.

Markab01
Lemon Pip
Posts: 71
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 5:43 pm
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400544

Postby Markab01 » March 31st, 2021, 11:19 am

I agree with the advice that has been given.
I believe that Clerical Medical are owned by LLoyds Banking Group. If you receive no responses from Clerical Medical try writing to CEO of LLoyds with copies of previous correspondence. I usually add a comment on the end that if this is not resolved within "x" days then I reserve the right to contact third parties to further this complaint. If you leave that bit vague they do not know whether it is a newspaper column, legal advice, or the ombudsman.

Hope you have success soon

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7088
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1638 times
Been thanked: 3796 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400552

Postby Mike4 » March 31st, 2021, 11:34 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:
Mike4 wrote:So I agree with Snorv, look up on their website how to raise a formal complaint, and do it in writing.

I have no idea about Clerical Medical, but there seems to be a modern trend for public-facing companies to make themselves virtually impossible to contact in writing. They don't want there to be any verifiable record of a customer's communication.


I agree about the habit of big organisations making their intelligent life hard to contact, but they must have an address for the service of notices, or they would not be allowed to take premia from the public. Surely?

Letters sent in the Royal Mail are deemed by the courts to have been delivered, so failures to respond will be treated as self-incriminating. Also I see no need for the OP to seek out any other company owning Clerical Medical. Clerical Medical is the corporate body with with whom their deceased mother had the contract.


(Spilling edit.)

chas49
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1935
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:25 am
Has thanked: 216 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400571

Postby chas49 » March 31st, 2021, 12:31 pm

There's a postal address here https://www.clericalmedical.co.uk/busin ... /contactus so we don't need to digress into discussion of why firms hide addresses...

dealtn
Lemon Half
Posts: 6072
Joined: November 21st, 2016, 4:26 pm
Has thanked: 441 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400576

Postby dealtn » March 31st, 2021, 12:35 pm

chas49 wrote:There's a postal address here https://www.clericalmedical.co.uk/busin ... /contactus so we don't need to digress into discussion of why firms hide addresses...


And indeed

https://www.clericalmedical.co.uk/busin ... /complaint

for complaints purposes which has all of phone, email, and physical address alternatives

Alaric
Lemon Half
Posts: 6035
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 9:05 am
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 1400 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400580

Postby Alaric » March 31st, 2021, 12:39 pm

Snorvey wrote:They are, but I think they have been integrated into the Scottish Widows life company


That may well be part of the problem, that they struggle to find anyone who knows anything about former Clerical Medical policies. A written letter may stand a better chance of reaching the CMG "expert" than a phone call.

JonnyT
Lemon Pip
Posts: 83
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 8:54 am
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400608

Postby JonnyT » March 31st, 2021, 3:18 pm

Already raised a written complaint and gave them 14 days to respond.

They haven't responded in that timescale.

Where next? Ombudsmen? Court proceedings?

scrumpyjack
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4817
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:15 am
Has thanked: 606 times
Been thanked: 2676 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400612

Postby scrumpyjack » March 31st, 2021, 3:32 pm

You could write to Katie Morley at the Telegraph. She seems very good at getting companies to respond and correct errors

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/katie ... tact-form/

Markab01
Lemon Pip
Posts: 71
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 5:43 pm
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400632

Postby Markab01 » March 31st, 2021, 5:20 pm

scrumpyjack wrote:You could write to Katie Morley at the Telegraph. She seems very good at getting companies to respond and correct errors

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/katie ... tact-form/


Kate Morley is on maternity leave. Someone else, but I forget who, has taken over.

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7088
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1638 times
Been thanked: 3796 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400671

Postby Mike4 » March 31st, 2021, 7:52 pm

JonnyT wrote:Already raised a written complaint and gave them 14 days to respond.

They haven't responded in that timescale.

Where next? Ombudsmen? Court proceedings?


Do they have a formal complaints procedure set out on their website?

If yes, then follow it to the letter. Of no, then yes I guess go straight to the ombudsman pointing out in particular that you tried to follow their formal complaints procedure but discovered they don't have one, so you wrote a letter instead giving them 14 days to come up with an answer, which they ignored.

fisher
Lemon Slice
Posts: 386
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:18 pm
Has thanked: 351 times
Been thanked: 201 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400672

Postby fisher » March 31st, 2021, 8:03 pm

Snorvey wrote:
JonnyT wrote:Already raised a written complaint and gave them 14 days to respond.

They haven't responded in that timescale.

Where next? Ombudsmen? Court proceedings?


If it was me, I'd give them just a little longer. Given that it's a long weekend, maybe the End of next week. Then send a letter to FOS copied into CM. Bear in mind though that FOS are absolutely swamped at the moment.


Why give them longer. Just do it.

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7088
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1638 times
Been thanked: 3796 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400674

Postby Mike4 » March 31st, 2021, 8:28 pm

fisher wrote:
Snorvey wrote:
JonnyT wrote:Already raised a written complaint and gave them 14 days to respond.

They haven't responded in that timescale.

Where next? Ombudsmen? Court proceedings?


If it was me, I'd give them just a little longer. Given that it's a long weekend, maybe the End of next week. Then send a letter to FOS copied into CM. Bear in mind though that FOS are absolutely swamped at the moment.


Why give them longer. Just do it.


My thoughts too. Having been ignored, the OP should just get on with whatever they said they'd do in the letter. Otherwise they are teaching CM they don't mean what they say.

mc2fool
Lemon Half
Posts: 7812
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:24 am
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 3017 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400720

Postby mc2fool » April 1st, 2021, 12:06 am

JonnyT wrote:Already raised a written complaint and gave them 14 days to respond.

They haven't responded in that timescale.

Where next? Ombudsmen? Court proceedings?

The Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) won't consider taking up your formal complaint until you have received the company's full and final response which you are unhappy with, or eight weeks have passed without you receiving a full and final response from them.

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/how-to-complain

I do expect that CM will have treated your letter as a formal complaint, but FYI I recently posted on the appropriate buzz phrases to use to better the chances of getting past a company's front line flunkies and to their formal complaints dept. See viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28452&p=395927&#p395927

Adamski
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1075
Joined: July 13th, 2020, 1:39 pm
Has thanked: 1465 times
Been thanked: 553 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400738

Postby Adamski » April 1st, 2021, 7:52 am

Feel for you there, frustrating! I'm guessing they'll use Covid or staff absence as an excuse. And you will eventually get the money and an apology.

Just for interest, when I helped my on Dad's probate. We sent the probate form to the investment providers in April. To speed things up, we also sent with it a sell instruction in covering letter, or the provider's selling form and the copy id as required.

The investment providers paid out over April, May, June. One was difficult and needed many calls. So can sympathise as is common, but sounds like you've had a very bad time with it.

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400750

Postby Dod101 » April 1st, 2021, 9:17 am

In the old days, Clerical Medical was a very good mutual life insurer. Quite some years ago now they were bought by Halifax.

Quite frankly in current conditions three months delay (since Christmas) does not seem to me to be a very long delay. I appreciate that for the OP it will seem so but I doubt that he will get much further pursuing this with the Ombudsman even if they were to take this on. Clerical do not appear to have refused to pay, or broken any rules, just delayed matters for what they can probably say was 'due to matters beyond our control'. In the scheme of things, I am afraid patience is going to have to be the answer. Obviously keep pressing Clerical.

Dod

gryffron
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3607
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:00 am
Has thanked: 551 times
Been thanked: 1587 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400827

Postby gryffron » April 1st, 2021, 12:24 pm

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
Mike4 wrote:Letters sent in the Royal Mail are deemed by the courts to have been delivered

Choose the appropriate company address and send the letter registered post, keeping the proof of posting.

RVF,
I believe the advice for legal documents is NOT to use registered/signed-for services. As Mike4 says, a letter sent is deemed to be received. But if they don't sign for it (which many companies won't) then they can PROVE they didn't receive it. So simple proof of postage is better.

Gryff

didds
Lemon Half
Posts: 5244
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:04 pm
Has thanked: 3250 times
Been thanked: 1018 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400863

Postby didds » April 1st, 2021, 3:04 pm

gryffron wrote:
ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
Mike4 wrote:Letters sent in the Royal Mail are deemed by the courts to have been delivered

Choose the appropriate company address and send the letter registered post, keeping the proof of posting.

RVF,
I believe the advice for legal documents is NOT to use registered/signed-for services. As Mike4 says, a letter sent is deemed to be received. But if they don't sign for it (which many companies won't) then they can PROVE they didn't receive it. So simple proof of postage is better.

Gryff


Thats my understsanding too, gleaned from the Motlery fool days. The crus being get a proof of postage for your letter and that is allegedly sufficient proof the letter was delivered two (?) days later.

mc2fool
Lemon Half
Posts: 7812
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:24 am
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 3017 times

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

#400868

Postby mc2fool » April 1st, 2021, 3:25 pm

gryffron wrote:
ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
Mike4 wrote:Letters sent in the Royal Mail are deemed by the courts to have been delivered

Choose the appropriate company address and send the letter registered post, keeping the proof of posting.

RVF,
I believe the advice for legal documents is NOT to use registered/signed-for services. As Mike4 says, a letter sent is deemed to be received. But if they don't sign for it (which many companies won't) then they can PROVE they didn't receive it. So simple proof of postage is better.

Gryff

My very limited experience is that solicitors send two, one signed-for and the other not.


Return to “Legal Issues (Practical)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SebsCat and 9 guests