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Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: March 31st, 2021, 8:58 am
by JonnyT
My mother died in July last year and had a holding with Clerical Medical in a 'with profits fund'. Probate was obtained in November and Clerical Medical provided with a copy which they have returned. All their required paperwork has been completed and this has been acknowledged.

Just before Christmas they sent a letter to myself containing a chargeable event certificate suggesting the current value of the holding.

Despite numerous phone calls for an hour a time and two further letters they still haven't paid out.

What action(s) can I take to ensure that they pay out?

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: March 31st, 2021, 9:35 am
by Mike4
My view is stop phoning whenever anything like this comes off the rails, and revert to writing real letters on real paper sent in the Royal Mail. If push comes to shove judges and ombudsmen are, I suspect, are far more swayed by a proper paper trail of photocopies of letters sent and responses (if any) received than haphazard accounts of phone conversations preceded by long waits.

So I agree with Snorv, look up on their website how to raise a formal complaint, and do it in writing. Then make all enquiries about its progress in writing too. That way any and all responses you get should also be in writing, and an undeniable case accumulates. If they ignore your letters, this is powerfully in your favour. Once you have properly exhausted their formal complaints procedure I suspect you can progress to getting the insurance industry Ombudsman involved, but the Ombudsman won't be interested if you have not used the company's formal complaints procedure to its fullest extent first.

(Edit to add the bit about them ignoring letters, if this is how they respond.)

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: March 31st, 2021, 10:34 am
by UncleEbenezer
Mike4 wrote:So I agree with Snorv, look up on their website how to raise a formal complaint, and do it in writing.

I have no idea about Clerical Medical, but there seems to be a modern trend for public-facing companies to make themselves virtually impossible to contact in writing. They don't want there to be any verifiable record of a customer's communication.

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: March 31st, 2021, 11:19 am
by Markab01
I agree with the advice that has been given.
I believe that Clerical Medical are owned by LLoyds Banking Group. If you receive no responses from Clerical Medical try writing to CEO of LLoyds with copies of previous correspondence. I usually add a comment on the end that if this is not resolved within "x" days then I reserve the right to contact third parties to further this complaint. If you leave that bit vague they do not know whether it is a newspaper column, legal advice, or the ombudsman.

Hope you have success soon

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: March 31st, 2021, 11:34 am
by Mike4
UncleEbenezer wrote:
Mike4 wrote:So I agree with Snorv, look up on their website how to raise a formal complaint, and do it in writing.

I have no idea about Clerical Medical, but there seems to be a modern trend for public-facing companies to make themselves virtually impossible to contact in writing. They don't want there to be any verifiable record of a customer's communication.


I agree about the habit of big organisations making their intelligent life hard to contact, but they must have an address for the service of notices, or they would not be allowed to take premia from the public. Surely?

Letters sent in the Royal Mail are deemed by the courts to have been delivered, so failures to respond will be treated as self-incriminating. Also I see no need for the OP to seek out any other company owning Clerical Medical. Clerical Medical is the corporate body with with whom their deceased mother had the contract.


(Spilling edit.)

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: March 31st, 2021, 12:31 pm
by chas49
There's a postal address here https://www.clericalmedical.co.uk/busin ... /contactus so we don't need to digress into discussion of why firms hide addresses...

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: March 31st, 2021, 12:35 pm
by dealtn
chas49 wrote:There's a postal address here https://www.clericalmedical.co.uk/busin ... /contactus so we don't need to digress into discussion of why firms hide addresses...


And indeed

https://www.clericalmedical.co.uk/busin ... /complaint

for complaints purposes which has all of phone, email, and physical address alternatives

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: March 31st, 2021, 12:39 pm
by Alaric
Snorvey wrote:They are, but I think they have been integrated into the Scottish Widows life company


That may well be part of the problem, that they struggle to find anyone who knows anything about former Clerical Medical policies. A written letter may stand a better chance of reaching the CMG "expert" than a phone call.

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: March 31st, 2021, 3:18 pm
by JonnyT
Already raised a written complaint and gave them 14 days to respond.

They haven't responded in that timescale.

Where next? Ombudsmen? Court proceedings?

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: March 31st, 2021, 3:32 pm
by scrumpyjack
You could write to Katie Morley at the Telegraph. She seems very good at getting companies to respond and correct errors

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/katie ... tact-form/

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: March 31st, 2021, 5:20 pm
by Markab01
scrumpyjack wrote:You could write to Katie Morley at the Telegraph. She seems very good at getting companies to respond and correct errors

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/katie ... tact-form/


Kate Morley is on maternity leave. Someone else, but I forget who, has taken over.

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: March 31st, 2021, 7:52 pm
by Mike4
JonnyT wrote:Already raised a written complaint and gave them 14 days to respond.

They haven't responded in that timescale.

Where next? Ombudsmen? Court proceedings?


Do they have a formal complaints procedure set out on their website?

If yes, then follow it to the letter. Of no, then yes I guess go straight to the ombudsman pointing out in particular that you tried to follow their formal complaints procedure but discovered they don't have one, so you wrote a letter instead giving them 14 days to come up with an answer, which they ignored.

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: March 31st, 2021, 8:03 pm
by fisher
Snorvey wrote:
JonnyT wrote:Already raised a written complaint and gave them 14 days to respond.

They haven't responded in that timescale.

Where next? Ombudsmen? Court proceedings?


If it was me, I'd give them just a little longer. Given that it's a long weekend, maybe the End of next week. Then send a letter to FOS copied into CM. Bear in mind though that FOS are absolutely swamped at the moment.


Why give them longer. Just do it.

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: March 31st, 2021, 8:28 pm
by Mike4
fisher wrote:
Snorvey wrote:
JonnyT wrote:Already raised a written complaint and gave them 14 days to respond.

They haven't responded in that timescale.

Where next? Ombudsmen? Court proceedings?


If it was me, I'd give them just a little longer. Given that it's a long weekend, maybe the End of next week. Then send a letter to FOS copied into CM. Bear in mind though that FOS are absolutely swamped at the moment.


Why give them longer. Just do it.


My thoughts too. Having been ignored, the OP should just get on with whatever they said they'd do in the letter. Otherwise they are teaching CM they don't mean what they say.

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: April 1st, 2021, 12:06 am
by mc2fool
JonnyT wrote:Already raised a written complaint and gave them 14 days to respond.

They haven't responded in that timescale.

Where next? Ombudsmen? Court proceedings?

The Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) won't consider taking up your formal complaint until you have received the company's full and final response which you are unhappy with, or eight weeks have passed without you receiving a full and final response from them.

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/how-to-complain

I do expect that CM will have treated your letter as a formal complaint, but FYI I recently posted on the appropriate buzz phrases to use to better the chances of getting past a company's front line flunkies and to their formal complaints dept. See viewtopic.php?f=26&t=28452&p=395927&#p395927

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: April 1st, 2021, 7:52 am
by Adamski
Feel for you there, frustrating! I'm guessing they'll use Covid or staff absence as an excuse. And you will eventually get the money and an apology.

Just for interest, when I helped my on Dad's probate. We sent the probate form to the investment providers in April. To speed things up, we also sent with it a sell instruction in covering letter, or the provider's selling form and the copy id as required.

The investment providers paid out over April, May, June. One was difficult and needed many calls. So can sympathise as is common, but sounds like you've had a very bad time with it.

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: April 1st, 2021, 9:17 am
by Dod101
In the old days, Clerical Medical was a very good mutual life insurer. Quite some years ago now they were bought by Halifax.

Quite frankly in current conditions three months delay (since Christmas) does not seem to me to be a very long delay. I appreciate that for the OP it will seem so but I doubt that he will get much further pursuing this with the Ombudsman even if they were to take this on. Clerical do not appear to have refused to pay, or broken any rules, just delayed matters for what they can probably say was 'due to matters beyond our control'. In the scheme of things, I am afraid patience is going to have to be the answer. Obviously keep pressing Clerical.

Dod

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: April 1st, 2021, 12:24 pm
by gryffron
ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
Mike4 wrote:Letters sent in the Royal Mail are deemed by the courts to have been delivered

Choose the appropriate company address and send the letter registered post, keeping the proof of posting.

RVF,
I believe the advice for legal documents is NOT to use registered/signed-for services. As Mike4 says, a letter sent is deemed to be received. But if they don't sign for it (which many companies won't) then they can PROVE they didn't receive it. So simple proof of postage is better.

Gryff

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: April 1st, 2021, 3:04 pm
by didds
gryffron wrote:
ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
Mike4 wrote:Letters sent in the Royal Mail are deemed by the courts to have been delivered

Choose the appropriate company address and send the letter registered post, keeping the proof of posting.

RVF,
I believe the advice for legal documents is NOT to use registered/signed-for services. As Mike4 says, a letter sent is deemed to be received. But if they don't sign for it (which many companies won't) then they can PROVE they didn't receive it. So simple proof of postage is better.

Gryff


Thats my understsanding too, gleaned from the Motlery fool days. The crus being get a proof of postage for your letter and that is allegedly sufficient proof the letter was delivered two (?) days later.

Re: Clerical Medical not paying out

Posted: April 1st, 2021, 3:25 pm
by mc2fool
gryffron wrote:
ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:
Mike4 wrote:Letters sent in the Royal Mail are deemed by the courts to have been delivered

Choose the appropriate company address and send the letter registered post, keeping the proof of posting.

RVF,
I believe the advice for legal documents is NOT to use registered/signed-for services. As Mike4 says, a letter sent is deemed to be received. But if they don't sign for it (which many companies won't) then they can PROVE they didn't receive it. So simple proof of postage is better.

Gryff

My very limited experience is that solicitors send two, one signed-for and the other not.